Inadvertent Discrimination

[Phoenix McHeit]

ooohhhhh, there's gonna be so much luv on 1/26!!!!:ilu:

Ooh you know it, babe! I can't WAIT!

[Ravin' Raven]

Yeah - my puter crashed over the weekend. I was reading the thread over on Artos' puter, but I didn't wanna go thru signing in over there & mess up his settings, so I just read & thought.

Tell Hawk he already has Artos' permission, and a very Impatient Phee waiting to be caught. *rotfl*

And thanks to him - he's really a sweetheart. We's some lucky gals, ain't we?

I'll let Hawkins' know...Be ready to swoon in January. And yes, we very lucky gals we be.

[Gemdrite]

According to Jeff Foxworthy, the definition of redneck is "a glorious absence of sophistication." It can be a one time thing, or someone who is that way allll the time. Most of us are guilty of it, or we are related to someone who is. (Blue Collar Comedy Tour, if you need the reference. And you should go watch these...they are hysterical!)

I am guilty of being a redneck on occasion. It makes for great stories later. I think, thanks to Jeff Foxworthy, that being a redneck is no longer an insult, for the most part. It's something to revel in.

[ambar]

Before Jeff Foxworthy though, redneck was a word bandied about in a negative sense. He is a prime example of taking a word and owning it to take the sting out of it.

Keep in mind, this comes from a girl who's Mom's family lives in the Ozark mountains in NW Arkansas. Most of the directions include "turn off the paved road". There are also recipes that seem centered around hillbillies that I grew up on and love to this day. Only other country/hillbilly type people seem to like them. Like cornbread and milk. Mixed togeather in one glass and eaten with a spoon. It is a dessert and totally yummy. *shrug*

However, let some dressed up sophisticated type call them or me a hillbilly and I get extreamly angry. It goes back to what Raven said about WHO uses a word making the difference.

[surlywench]

the use of the word "retarded" is pretty common in the gamer world, tho mostly now what you'll see is "r-tard" or "f-tard" (the first is from use largely in South Park, and the second is a shorter version of "fucktard"). "gay" is often spelled "gai" to get around langauge/content filters. as is "fag" spelled "phag" for the same reason.

Having also worked (albeit briefly) with people who *are* genuinely retarded (my aunt runs a life skills/social serv. org for them and their families as well), I don't see the use of those variations as offensive. I will apply them to myself sometimes as well when I've done something seriously stupid. I see it as really having gone above and beyond on the idiot meter. Often it's not meant as an insult, but as a joke - I think context has a lot to do with it.

I think Carlos Mencia has one of the best explanations of this I've ever seen. It's much too long to paraphrase, but he's hysterical anyway, and his material actually deals heavily with the topic of this thread. His take on it, however is quite different. His idea is that words only are as powerful as you choose to let them be. there shouldn't *be* things that only certain groups get to say about themselves, *everyone* should be on the same playing field, and words are just words until *we* choose to be offended by them.

The "gay" thing...it doesn't bother me, since telling someone "that's so gay, dude." will often merit a "you realize you just said that's so happy, right?" from me in a tone of voice that lets them know I think they're an absolute idiot. The "phag" thing....that's a bit more delicate. I think it's an ugly word that just shouldn't be used in that context anymore. I understand the etemology of it, but the way young boys throw it around in the gamer community, it's just ugly. Hopefully for most of them, it's just a phase they'll grow out of when they get a girlfriend :(

[Ravin' Raven]

"His idea is that words only are as powerful as you choose to let them be. there shouldn't *be* things that only certain groups get to say about themselves, *everyone* should be on the same playing field, and words are just words until *we* choose to be offended by them."

Would you agree to add "or until the speaker intends great offense?" Just based on what you've said before I think you would. I mean I've been called ma'am with more vitriol than any "nasty" word you might think of - that was the speaker's intent not my choice in the offense. But I must say I do agree with your example....:-D

In my house we were NEVER allowed to use the word stupid to refer to each other much less "retarded".

Oh and the "gay" thing - that fact that my mother saddled me with that as a middle name is more offensive than the stated uses...;-) (just kidding folks....)

[MaidenFaeSnow]

twas but a joke.

Really? There was absolutely nothing in your posts that even slightly suggested that. So I suppose it's left unanswered. No worries.

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

"Niggardly" - a perfectly fine word with no racial overtones and I never use it because it sounds racist. I actually seldom hear it used except by bigots trying to anger people. A good word to retire.
Don't be a homophonophobe. ;-)

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

The "phag" thing....that's a bit more delicate. I think it's an ugly word that just shouldn't be used in that context anymore. I understand the etemology of it, but the way young boys throw it around in the gamer community, it's just ugly.
Beisdes, at that age they shouldn't be smoking anyway.


Unless they're talking about a pile of sticks, in which case I guess it's okay. :wink:

[Ravin' Raven]

Well apparently I must offer my apologies to all of the poor people I pulled into this trivial thread of nearly 30 pages. Ironically some people who actually got the point that things aren't always meant badly seem to think this is not a big enough issue to consider. No one said this was an earth shattering question - I posed it as a bit of chatter against which I thought people might wish to post and learn from each other amongst the bigger issues they have to deal with - ya know, a little light hearted banter...

The very first thing I said was that I HAD NOT been offended by the statement I used as an example, just thought it raised an interesting topic. I have, however, been demoralized by the negative, personnaly directed input of some posters to this thread.

Mea culpa that I have created such a boorish display. You may be assured I shall not let it happen again...

[Lady Sarah]

Well apparently I must offer my apologies to all of the poor people I pulled into this trivial thread of nearly 30 pages. Ironically some people who actually got the point that things aren't always meant badly seem to think this is not a big enough issue to consider. No one said this was an earth shattering question - I posed it as a bit of chatter against which I thought people might wish to post and learn from each other amongst the bigger issues they have to deal with - ya know, a little light hearted banter...

The very first thing I said was that I HAD NOT been offended by the statement I used as an example, just thought it raised an interesting topic. I have, however, been demoralized by the negative, personnaly directed input of some posters to this thread.

Mea culpa that I have created such a boorish display. You may be assured I shall not let it happen again...


DON'T YOU DARE!!

What little bit of this thread I've looked over had been enlightening and rather enjoyable.

If you want to post anything like this again, go for it!

[Selena]

What little bit of this thread I've looked over had been enlightening and rather enjoyable.

If you want to post anything like this again, go for it!


Gotta agree, here.
With the exception of a few tense moments, this has been a very good discussion. I've learned a few things and have enjoyed reading it!

[Artos O'Dalriada]

It took nearly a day to finish, but my dear Phee has once again a working pc. dang hard drives.

Raven, of course Hawk does have permission (though I find it odd that a rogue is asking permission in the first place), and I would like to proffer my assistance as well.

:toocool: ::runfore:

[Ravin' Raven]

It took nearly a day to finish, but my dear Phee has once again a working pc. dang hard drives.

Raven, of course Hawk does have permission (though I find it odd that a rogue is asking permission in the first place), and I would like to proffer my assistance as well.

:toocool: ::runfore:

Well he's only a rogue-in-post and he doesn't know it yet...;-) Remember he's still a bit of a newcomer to all of this so he's making sure of his boundaries....I, on the other hand, have very few boundaries (did I say that in my outside voice?) :shhh:

[Pathos]

Unless they're talking about a pile of sticks, in which case I guess it's okay. :wink:
I always suspected Zeppelin was making a gay reference here.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/LedZeppelinFourSymbols.jpg

8-)

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

Mea culpa that I have created such a boorish display. You may be assured I shall not let it happen again...

That's mighty white of you.



::kooky::

[surlywench]

"His idea is that words only are as powerful as you choose to let them be. there shouldn't *be* things that only certain groups get to say about themselves, *everyone* should be on the same playing field, and words are just words until *we* choose to be offended by them."

Would you agree to add "or until the speaker intends great offense?" Just based on what you've said before I think you would. I mean I've been called ma'am with more vitriol than any "nasty" word you might think of - that was the speaker's intent not my choice in the offense. But I must say I do agree with your example....:-D




Would I agree to add it? yeah, for my own personal take on the issue, but I was trying to explain Carlos Mencia's pov, so I'm not sure if I'd go that far.

You know Raven, that's actually an excellent point - if someone is trying to be deliberatly offensive, does simply _not_ taking offense return the power in the situation to you? If someone can hurl insults and obscenities at you, and you just laugh at them, doesn't that fundamentally weaken their position?

At what point does a stand need to be made? Are we able to "teach them a lesson" without losing our cool?

There's something else my brain is trying to work around, but I'm a bit fried atm. I hope it made sense anyway, lol ;)

[MaidenFaeSnow]

Would I agree to add it? yeah, for my own personal take on the issue, but I was trying to explain Carlos Mencia's pov, so I'm not sure if I'd go that far.

You know Raven, that's actually an excellent point - if someone is trying to be deliberatly offensive, does simply _not_ taking offense return the power in the situation to you? If someone can hurl insults and obscenities at you, and you just laugh at them, doesn't that fundamentally weaken their position?

At what point does a stand need to be made? Are we able to "teach them a lesson" without losing our cool?

There's something else my brain is trying to work around, but I'm a bit fried atm. I hope it made sense anyway, lol ;)

I think it shows what a strong person you are; however, though it may weaken their position, (and perhaps start them thinking about their position - we can hope) they still had that position to begin with, which is unfortunate. I learned a very long time ago, sometime shortly after high school I believe it was...about not giving others the power to control your emotions which then power your actions. Of course there are times when it happens anyway but it something that is so good to keep in mind. When someone tosses out an insult isn't their intent to try to control how you feel? They are trying to make you feel a certain way. Don't let them, and you have in fact succeeded in taking the control yourself, resulting in a certain amount of self-satisfaction at the strength you have just found within yourself. How cool!

[Phoenix McHeit]

Are we able to "teach them a lesson" without losing our cool?



Apparently I can't... *sigh*

Raven, you didn't 'start' anything. You posed a question. And like Selena said, aside from a few tense moments ... uhm.. ::whistle:: ... it was a very good, thought-provoking discussion.

I did lose my cool. Unfortunately, it can't be undone. I would have liked to have phrased it differently, but I can't. I won't sit here & say I didn't mean it, cuz I did. Although I should have taken the high road & chosen my words a bit better. But let me stress here - I did mean it.

I learned a lot during the course of this thread. And learning is always a good thing.

[Ravin' Raven]

Apparently I can't... *sigh*

Raven, you didn't 'start' anything. You posed a question. And like Selena said, aside from a few tense moments ... uhm.. ::whistle:: ... it was a very good, thought-provoking discussion.

I did lose my cool. Unfortunately, it can't be undone. I would have liked to have phrased it differently, but I can't. I won't sit here & say I didn't mean it, cuz I did. Although I should have taken the high road & chosen my words a bit better. But let me stress here - I did mean it.

I learned a lot during the course of this thread. And learning is always a good thing.

My darlin' my comment was in NO WAY directed at you!! It was primarily meant to summarize how I felt about certain comments that suggested any of us were nasty regarding the issue that got brought up to you (of course the person who was primarily involved in that has chosen to either disappear or lurk) and the fact the my background information HAD to be wrong and that the whole thread was pointless anyway because there are more important things to worry about.

As you know I also love to learn things (my work nickname is google :lol:) and engage in some good discussion. I believe discussion can be heated and well thought out then kiss and make up at the end (Bob, Pathos, Lady Sarah, Selena, Surly, Yso, MFS and others always work in that vein). Unfortunately there are people who get involved in these discussions who must take things to a personal level (as happened with you and me). Believe me I know you meant what you said and you know me well enough (I think) to know that I could have gotten downright nasty and high handed as well (I may be little but I'm feisty). Trust me, my responses were taking an hour or more to thoughtfully compose (which is a rule maybe others should follow?).

Surlz is right though, and perhaps I will choose NOT to be irritated but such petty actions in the future thus eliminating their power. In the meantime I'm going to choose to contribute minimally to threads that others start.

So ::smoochy:. I'll deliver a real one in January - I made our reservation yesterday to make sure that he of the silky plummage can deliver on his promise...

[MaidenFaeSnow]

Phee, while you may be feeling a bit of regret in the way you worded your response, I thought it was well stated. You made a plethora of good points...stating obsticles you have suffered through that many may never have considered, obviously not he. You really should not be sorry for that. You did offer him, through a very gracious first post, the opportunity to refrain from being insulting. He didn't take you up on that offer.

[ambar]

Well he's only a rogue-in-post and he doesn't know it yet...;-) Remember he's still a bit of a newcomer to all of this so he's making sure of his boundaries....I, on the other hand, have very few boundaries (did I say that in my outside voice?) :shhh:

*rotfl**rotfl*Oh yeah, that was your outside voice..... :lol:

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

You made a plethora of good points...
Would you say I had a plethora of pinatas?

(sorry... obligatory 'Three Amigos' reference... it's a reflex.)

[surlywench]

Would you say I had a plethora of pinatas?

(sorry... obligatory 'Three Amigos' reference... it's a reflex.)

i think it's more like "Bob's racial passive trait" xP

(yeah...that was a gamer reference.....i need help....)

[Bonnie Strangeways]

Phee, while you may be feeling a bit of regret in the way you worded your response, I thought it was well stated. You made a plethora of good points...stating obsticles you have suffered through that many may never have considered, obviously not he. You really should not be sorry for that. You did offer him, through a very gracious first post, the opportunity to refrain from being insulting. He didn't take you up on that offer.

I wholeheartedly agree with MFS Phee. You were passionate, succient, but inoffensive in all of your responses on this thread. The same cannot be said for The Wizard. (Excuse me, I do not believe in beating around a fawking bush...I'll call the damn spade a spade.) Don't worry about it, and for goodness sake, do NOT apologize for one damn thing. There is certainly no need. *smooch*

Raven luv, this thread was a brilliant example of *why* this Board is here in the first place.... it's a place where like-minds can meet and discuss subjects of worth. You have presented a prevalent problem, we have all had a wonderful time discussing it, there have been some ass-hats... but in reality, those responses were few and trivial in the whole of it. Good on you for bringing this topic to the "table", and please don't feel that you have to refrain from doing so in the future.

Bob, Surlz...your responses in particular at points have damn near made me spit coffee on my screen.... pinatas indeed. Hola!

[Ravin' Raven]

*snip*
Raven luv, this thread was a brilliant example of *why* this Board is here in the first place.... it's a place where like-minds can meet and discuss subjects of worth. You have presented a prevalent problem, we have all had a wonderful time discussing it, there have been some ass-hats... but in reality, those responses were few and trivial in the whole of it. Good on you for bringing this topic to the "table", and please don't feel that you have to refrain from doing so in the future.


Thanks for the support. From others as well. I just was feeling a bit beat up like I was wasting people's time and being repeatedly told that my information was just wrong. Hey I was kinda happy when we got up to so many pages - to me that meant it was a good topic.

Ironically I saw something today that I thought would be a good add-on to this thread. One of the guys at work has on a button that says "It's okay - you can wish me a merry Christmas". We all know how far PC-ness, especially at work, has gone in this area. Heck whatever people wish me a happy of I respond as close in kind as I can and take it for the warm wish it is. The folks that work for me gave me a hand made card yesterday - "Happy Holidays to the QA Goddess" with a little picture of a witch on it - they just could not figure out the whole yule thing. I loved it!!!

[Janos the Gypsy]

It took nearly a day to finish, but my dear Phee has once again a working pc. dang hard drives.

Raven, of course Hawk does have permission (though I find it odd that a rogue is asking permission in the first place), and I would like to proffer my assistance as well.

:toocool: ::runfore:

::cracks KNuckles: Welcome to the Fold, Hawk...Now where's that wife o' yourn, Artos?

[Gemdrite]

I don't like how pc the world has become, and I have never hidden that opinion. I don't get offended when people tell me Happy Hanukkah (I am sure that is spelled wrong...I apologize.) How are they supposed to know if I am Jewish or not? I don't wear a sign saying "Hey, not a Jew!" I simply respond with, "And a Merry Christmas to you too!" In fact, it's become a joke with a pagan friend of mine. He'll tell me Happy Samhain, Solstice, Beltane, etc. and I will respond with whatever corresponding holiday I am celebrating. It's a mutual acceptance of the other's different beliefs.

I agree with Carlos Mencia without adding on the "when the person is intending to be offensive." If you try to be offensive to me, and I refuse to be baited, you come off looking the dumba**. In fact, working at a restaurant, I have found that if I am being baited in public, and I ignore it, 9 times out of 10, someone *else* will set the guy in his place, and I didn't have to do squat. Which also gives you those warm fuzzies that someone else stood up for you. It has the opposite effect of what the insulting was trying to do. And makes your day so much better.

[MaidenFaeSnow]

In fact, working at a restaurant, I have found that if I am being baited in public, and I ignore it, 9 times out of 10, someone *else* will set the guy in his place, and I didn't have to do squat. Which also gives you those warm fuzzies that someone else stood up for you. It has the opposite effect of what the insulting was trying to do. And makes your day so much better.

It can be nice that get that inner giggle of satisfaction when the person makes themself look like a dope for being crass and rude to begin with and fails to get the support they thought they would garnish from their friend or group and you didn't have to do any of the work yourself :wink:

[Artos O'Dalriada]

Quote:
"Janos the Gypsy Quote:
Originally Posted by Artos O'Dalriada http://www.wench.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wench.org/forums/showthread.php?p=235029#post235029)
It took nearly a day to finish, but my dear Phee has once again a working pc. dang hard drives.

Raven, of course Hawk does have permission (though I find it odd that a rogue is asking permission in the first place), and I would like to proffer my assistance as well.

:toocool: ::runfore:

::cracks KNuckles: Welcome to the Fold, Hawk...Now where's that wife o' yourn, Artos?"


Hehehe, not far my friend. not far at all.

[Ravin' Raven]

He's official!!! Hawkins is Rogue 1465 - his packet arrived Christmas Eve! So, Janos, Freebird and Artos you have a new member of the fold to whom you can teach proper corruption skills. And Phee watch out in January my dear!!! ::yay::

[Margaret]

He's official!!! Hawkins is Rogue 1465 - his packet arrived Christmas Eve! So, Janos, Freebird and Artos you have a new member of the fold to whom you can teach proper corruption skills. And Phee watch out in January my dear!!! ::yay::

Most excellent! What a nice Christmas gifty!!

[MaidenFaeSnow]

He's official!!! Hawkins is Rogue 1465 - his packet arrived Christmas Eve! So, Janos, Freebird and Artos you have a new member of the fold to whom you can teach proper corruption skills. And Phee watch out in January my dear!!! ::yay::

And my Bird is now official too...#1469!

[The Wizard]

You stated directly that you "liked tall women until you got a crick in your neck". Exact words might vary, but I believe I got the majority of it correct. You did the very same thing that we've all expressed here - "I like them, BUT..." What you said touched a nerve in a lot of people.

I just want to know how the hell YOU, at 6'0" get a crick in your neck from looking at a woman merely 2 inches taller than you. My brother is 6 inches taller than me and I never get a crick in my neck - nor does he get a crick looking down at me, my mother, my father, his wife or his kids - and he's got a degenerative bone disease in his spinal column!

Name calling gets your nowhere Bubba, so back the truck up and check your hole card before things get out of hand. Besides, your attempt at chastising us for speaking up at your statement was not the best thing you could have done. This is the Wenches Board, not the Whiners Board. If you think the public mockery you got on the Rogue's Board was bad, you haven't yet felt the wrath of the Wenches when we're pissed off. We stand up for ourselves and our sisters. If you go about making unthinking and intentionally rude statements such as you did, you are *GOING* to get put in your place about it. Trying to weasel out of admitting that perhaps you were wrong in what you had to say is just going to make it worse.
Try going back to my original statement, the 'crick in the neck' comment was to show what I objected to--an extreme difference in height. I never said that a 2" difference would give anyone a crick in the neck--that's an assumption that you are making. and the ASS-U-ME was shorthand for a quote from 'the new odd couple' series: Ron Glass has a woman on the stand who said that she assumed that his roommate was scalping a ticket so he goes to the blackboard and splits the word as I did and then says "When you ASSUME you make an ASS out of U and ME".

[ambar]

***WARNING: SNARK AHEAD***

Hey sparky? When a battle is done, don't go trying to bring it back to life. And try for a reasonably intelligent response next time?

*** END SNARK ***

We now return you to previously scheduled wenchy fun.

[MaidenFaeSnow]

***WARNING: SNARK AHEAD***

Hey sparky? When a battle is done, don't go trying to bring it back to life. And try for a reasonably intelligent response next time?

*** END SNARK ***

We now return you to previously scheduled wenchy fun.

*insert audience applause here*

[Ravin' Raven]

***WARNING: SNARK AHEAD***

Hey sparky? When a battle is done, don't go trying to bring it back to life. And try for a reasonably intelligent response next time?

*** END SNARK ***

We now return you to previously scheduled wenchy fun.

:kiss: thank you - I've spent the last several hours trying NOT to respond....

[Selena]

:kiss: thank you - I've spent the last several hours trying NOT to respond....

Agreed.

For fuck's sake, Wizard, let it go already! :roll: It's over!

[Ysobelle]

Or, as we say in my booth, "It's DEAD, Jim. DEAD, DEAD, DEAD."


Jesus Christ.

[Isabelle Warwicke]

Jesus Christ.

He's in your booth too? *giggle*

[Pathos]

I thought she was saying he's the one that's dead.

8-)

[Isabelle Warwicke]

I thought she was saying he's the one that's dead.

8-)

*blink* Ooohh....k.

[surlywench]

Or, as we say in my booth, "It's DEAD, Jim. DEAD, DEAD, DEAD."


Jesus Christ.

You get the phaser, I'll get the wallet....

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

I thought she was saying he's the one that's dead.

8-)


"I got better"

[ambar]

*snort*smooch*

Bob, you must love getting smacked around *pulls out the dead fish*

Oh and Surly, watch out for the rocks cause the monster that they were hunting is ALWAYS behind the rocks. To be discovered by the guy in the red shirt with the line in the script "Captain, I think I found ........ AAAAARRRRGGGGG"

[Janos the Gypsy]

*snort*smooch*

Bob, you must love getting smacked around *pulls out the dead fish*

Oh and Surly, watch out for the rocks cause the monster that they were hunting is ALWAYS behind the rocks. To be discovered by the guy in the red shirt with the line in the script "Captain, I think I found ........ AAAAARRRRGGGGG"
That'd be good old Ensign Smith. I had an Idea once for a halloween gag...Bunch of guys/gals in STO Redsthirts in Various states of deadness. See who got the joke.

[Ysobelle]

Nah, the blasphemy was my exclamation of annoyance. As for the other part, well, yeah. Surlz, the wallet's empty. How's the phaser?

[Ravin' Raven]

Nah, the blasphemy was my exclamation of annoyance. As for the other part, well, yeah. Surlz, the wallet's empty. How's the phaser?

annoyance? over what pray-tell? hmmm.....:-?

damn it I'm a wench not a _____________ (fill in the blank)

[ambar]

damn it I'm a wench not a _____________ (fill in the blank)

*wicked evil grin and chuckle*

:shhh: Gotta keep it PG-13 but dang, that's a line that can really go places.....