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View Full Version : Would Sadie Hawkins Matches Be More Successful?



daBaroness
12-09-2003, 08:05 PM
I promised I'd start a thread on this ... so here goes:

Considering to this point the only match-making reality show that's resulted in marriage is The Bachelorette where a female made the selection of a potential mate as opposed to the man choosing a woman - do you think the "success" of the match is more than mere coincidence - or is it just dumb luck?

My opinion is that I don't think it's mere coincidence. Research has shown men are visually driven in their selection of a prospective mate, while women are more concerned with the intangible qualities like the ability of the man to provide for a family, the kind of values he has, the kind of upbringing and family he comes from, etc.

I have a feeling many men might challenge my following assertion - but I hold fast to the notion that it's still very much a man's world in terms of the social convention, traditions and acceptable practices in the courtship and mating rituals.

In a majority of cultures - including our own - men are expected to make the first move. They get to choose first whereas women wait to be chosen. Most women - at least the ones my age - are reluctant to approach a man first. When some of us are bold enough to make that first move - it's often positioned so the man can still feel as though he's taking the lead, even if he's not. I'm guessing it's probably rare to see a woman approach a man, buy him a drink and then ask him out - or to see a woman eyeing the stag line at a bar at closing time to figure out which one will be the easiest lay. Women may do just that - but whereas men are dubbed "studs" or "playas" - women just get a reputation for being easy sluts.

So - having ranted about the roles of men and women ... I've long been opposed to the idea of women competing against one another for the so-called opportunity of "winning" a man. I really loathe most of the reality shows like Eliminidate and Fifth Wheel - and even the Joe Whatever and the Bachelor. I'm sorry - maybe it's the wench in me, but NO man is worthy or needs the ego massaging these shows provide. Just once I'd actually like to see a guy pick the girl who takes the higher ground and refuses to demean herself by insulting and catfighting with her fellow contestants. I'd like to see the girl who doesn't expose her silicone boobs as she frolicks with him in the hot tub be just ONE guy's choice. But that wouldn't be good for ratings.

Maybe it's a generational thing and I'm just really out of touch. But while I'm attracted to a certain look or physical qualities of a man, I'd dump those in a heartbeat for a guy who was hard-working, honest, truthful, passionate, compassionate, intelligent, funny, protecting but not domineering and who'd support me as I would him.

I think women look for intangible qualities - substance over surface - more than men do. I think men - especially younger men, but not always make their choices or narrow their field based more on physical criteria - looks, age, weight, etc.

I think if it were more socially acceptable for women to make the first move or propose marriage - the divorce rate might (I did say might) be lower. And I think if women didn't make their choice of spouses for financial considerations the divorce rate might lower too. Then again, if many of the currently married women weren't financially dependent upon their spouses the divorce rate would probably go up!

I don't know that I've stated my case very clearly - but I just have this suspicion if it was as much a woman's world as it currently is a man's - marriage would be very different.

What say you?

dB

'Nise
12-09-2003, 08:53 PM
Well I asked my husband to be to marry me. :D So far so good.
Love
'Nise

Holly
12-09-2003, 09:04 PM
GO Nise.. :)

Baroness.. I agree with you.. and no, its not because you are a different generation.. well maybe not.. ppl always tell me i am old fashioned..

i DIGRESS.. I dont think it is just you! I would not chose to be on one of those dating shows.. and i dont like to wathc them for the reasons you stated above.

I cant wait for the day when most women quit stabbing each other and competeing for worthless fodder.


ook.. sooo can you all tell i am writing a paper.. i am abotu ready to quit the whole full sentences thing... :)
or did i?


but yeah baroness two thumbs up...
:)
HUGS from PA

Jeannie Fitzgerald
12-09-2003, 10:26 PM
You go, Baroness!

'Course, for the kind of relationships I would be interested in, if a woman didn't initiate anything, nothing would happen. 8)

Mistress Kristi
12-10-2003, 10:17 AM
I don't think you are wrong and I'm definitely NOT old fashoned. I pick up men and when they approach me I almost don't know what to do with myself I'm so used to being the aggressor.

One thing that came to my mind as I was reading it is that I look around my campus and look at all the eye candy. And there are the GQ guys and the Abercrombie guys and they are beautiful but I would NEVER consider going up to them and trying to pick them up because I have a prejedice that they DON'T have any substance. It seems that along the journey of my life I have learned that extreme physical beauty in a man, meaning model types, denotes lack of "soul." (There are exceptions to every rule so please don't get mad at me if you are a beautiful man) And that they really aren't worth my time. What I find attractive is a man with flaws, whether he be too skinny or fat, scars, a big nose, whatever. Something to set him apart from the throngs of cookie cutter men out there.

I think men feel the same way when they get older, it just takes them longer to reach that place. Like I said though, there are exceptions and I know some gorgeous women who are amazing people, and are so damn sweet you can't even hate them. :lol:

Kristi :whip:

emalia
12-10-2003, 10:24 AM
One thing that came to my mind as I was reading it is that I look around my campus and look at all the eye candy. And there are the GQ guys and the Abercrombie guys and they are beautiful but I would NEVER consider going up to them and trying to pick them up because I have a prejedice that they DON'T have any substance. It seems that along the journey of my life I have learned that extreme physical beauty in a man, meaning model types, denotes lack of "soul." (There are exceptions to every rule so please don't get mad at me if you are a beautiful man) And that they really aren't worth my time. What I find attractive is a man with flaws, whether he be too skinny or fat, scars, a big nose, whatever. Something to set him apart from the throngs of cookie cutter men out there.

I soooo feel the same way! Hence my lack of Celebrity fantasies.. I would prefer what I call a "Real Man." This does not mean that the others are fake, but that I like them quite average.. I have had/dated BEAUTIFUL men (male models and a house favorite male dancer).. There was material substance, but that was all.. They were too obessed with keeping themselves beautiful, to come out and play.

A man that isn't afraid to dig in the dirt (ie: play with plants), build things, cook a nice meal (I know a fantasy), hits my I spot and showers regularly= sexy as hell to me.. I would do very well on the Average Joe show... I LOVE normal men with a brain..

Big beautiful men, their nice to look at.. Just don't talk.. you'll ruin my fantasy..

Bonnie
12-10-2003, 10:34 AM
yes...thus my favorite saying, now imortalized on a pin:

"Shh! Don't Speak!" (thanks El!!)

cyd
12-10-2003, 11:37 AM
Hmmm... lessee... I asked my husband out, I showed up on his doorstep unexpected from three states away in the middle of the night, I kissed him first, I asked him to marry me...

Yup. I agree. :)

Cyd

toosha
12-10-2003, 11:48 AM
I'm a wall flower and I admit it proudly because that's who I am. But because of it I have only ever been in 1 relationship, serious or otherwise. The funny thing is he's a wall flower too when it comes to making the first more and I still wonder how exactly we hooked up. Not that we didn't have the entire cast and crew of Stockwood silently cheering us on. silent because they didn't want to jinx any chances.

ANYWAY....

I completely agree on this not being a generational thing. We're coninutally taught that you are either pretty or smart. Not both. That's why the Legally Blonde movies are popular. She has to overcome people thinking she's stupid just because she's pretty. Or that TV movie with the girl from Hairspray(on Brodaway). She proves she can be thought of as beautiful even though she's overweight. Our physical appearance is constantly being portrayed as a something to get past.

I think Trista, the only one on these shows to make it to the Altar, made it there because the producers saw some depth in her. I mean they are making money off of the fact that this has worked out. She had been on the other side of the process and was the last girl the first Bachelor turned away. Lucky for her I think. But you have to wonder how serious most of these people are about a long term relationship when they apply to be on these shows. Most are probably saying anything just to get their face on TV. Average Joe had a guy who was turned down for Survivor, twice.

In the end while it's more common for women to look for substance there are men who put that first too. They're just more rare. Less common than a woman who just wants a pretty face in my opinion.

I don't think it makes much sense but that my 2 cents.

syndony
12-10-2003, 01:16 PM
Well, my hubby and I did it the old fashioned way, he proposed to me. And on Jan 5, 2004 we will have been married 19 years. I was engaged to someone else when we met and one night after I was babysitting some friends kids, I went to his apartment and use your imaginations for the rest. I guess I made the first move because we met in an algebra class and one rainy day he was sitting on a bench trying to make time with another girl, I walked up hit him with my umbrella and said 'Hi'. That sounds sorta Neanderthal, now that I think about it. :oops: But it worked! He looks nothing like a Neanderthal. He's everything I could want in a man and yes, he does cook!! But I do wish he would be a little neater.
But I agree, the beautiful men in general seem to be lacking substance but there are always exceptions. Give me substance over fluff anyday.
I, too, don't like the double standard society has imposed on us about how men are studs and women are sluts. Men can enjoy sex but women can't. So Victorian. Sex is one of my favorite activities with my husband.
Well anyway, I've ranted enough,
A wench with a man who cooks and does it very well,
Syndony

ShawnMarie
12-10-2003, 04:08 PM
I think in general it might work out more if the woman would do the choosing...though we all make bad choices at some time.

I agree with those that have talked about normal men...somehow if you aren't so taken in with the "look" of the guy, you are more able to notice the other things that really matter.

But it isn't the "look" so much that would get me...it's the voice, his conversation and then there is that something else. The something that just draws you to them...having no real reason why, it's just there. :?

Nevada
12-10-2003, 05:11 PM
I am not much to look at (being honest not looking for compliments) but I have dated really good looking guys and average guys....My husband (common law right now) is the sexiest man in the world to me...he makes me laugh, granted we have long discussions about his nail care (dont get me started)...we started out in a chat room as friends...we didnt physically spend time together for almost 8 months...on some things I initiated the first move...on others he did...it depends on the person and the situation...some men like aggressive women..others run for the hills...I am fortunate enough to have a man who doesnt mind me being aggressive and is man enough to tell me to settle down without being offensive...we balance each other...

Kristianne the MerWench
12-10-2003, 08:33 PM
Hmmmm...I ask my husband out for our first date (a picnic in a haunted cemetary...sort of a test) and I asked him to marry me-twice. The first time was sort of "will you marry me after I finish school and take the bar and stuff?" and the second time was "hey, wanna get married next May?" So far so good. I can't speak for most people, but I think women who take the lead are more likely to get what they want in a man sooner, if for no other reason than the fact that they are doing the choosing and are exposing themselves to people other than the ones who ask them out. Sorry-it's the end of a long day and the brain is a little frazzled. Did that make any sense whatsoever?