While we're at it...... Transsexualism

[Riah]

While we're at it, I'd be intrested (leaning forward with undivided attention) in knowing your point of view.

Things i'm curious about:

How open about your about your desire to be or your change to a woman?

How do men react to you when you make a pass?

Have you always felt like a woman? (or what inspires you to do this?)

Do you feel accepted, as a general rule? (How are you treated by people?)

When you do have sex, (Lacking the G-spot, or do you) do you still have orgasams? How are they different from when you were male? [I have ALWAYS wanted to be male just for a day to check that out]

The hormonal est/test thing. Different as night and day huh? Wow. How?

I've known 2 transsexuals. 1 seemed to be embarressed that he wanted to be a woman, so I left her be. (Huh. I just noticed that he seemed so embarressed about it, that I never really thought of him as a her)
The other one was open and I learned alot, but hers' is really the only view that I know.

I've learned so much already from these posts, would you mind teaching me some more?? :thinking:

Rapt,
Riah

[jmthane]

First off, let me say that I am perhaps not the best qualified to answer all the questions, but I'll do my best. And bear in mind that these are my answers - I don't make any claim to know what makes another tranny tick. So... To take your questions in order:


How open about your about your desire to be or your change to a woman?

Basically, I read this as "how out and open are you", to which my answer is, very. Not to the point that I'll go up to any old stranger on the street, shake hands with him/her/it, and say "Hi, my name's Josie, but it used to be Dave, and I'm a transsexual! Can you help me pay for surgery?" But I'm not in the closet - if someone asks me, I'll answer just about any question. A person to whom I was referred to be my therapist flat out told me that if I was going to do this, I would have to quit my job, give up any thought of ever having a family, move, leave all my friends - basically put 35 or so years of my life behind me and keep it there and deny it ever existed. I was too polite (might not be nowadays) to say to her face "BULLSHIT!" It is my opinion that you *can* keep your job, you *can* keep you family, you *can* keep your friends, you *don't* have to move, and you *don't* have to give up and deny your past. And it's worked for me.

On the other hand, I know one tranny who told her family. Her family went out and had a full church and graveside burial for their son, complete with headstone and casket! It's not an easy thing, but if my being out can help just one person who doesn't "get it", then out I'll stay. And I've helped more than one person "get it".


How do men react to you when you make a pass?

This is not one I'm really qualified to answer. I flexed the new hormonal muscles last season (and in fact Gareth and I had quite the converation going back in early 2000), and they do work. BUT - I was never terribly good at making a pass as a guy, and I'm not terribly confident about my abilities now, and being pre-operative doesn't help. (And let's face it, my being pre-op also squicks the guys.) But what little I've been able to do in this department is encouraging.


Have you always felt like a woman? (or what inspires you to do this?)

Growing up, I always felt like a small adult, really, in a kid's body. But due to no siblings and a distinct lack of friends (yes, really), the whole "boy/girl" dichotomy didn't really sink in. My parents told me I was a boy, I had the boy equipment, therefore I was a boy. I'm too young for Christine Jorgenson, and out in southern New Mexico, even the case of Renee Richards filing a suit to be allowed to play professional women's tennis didn't make any impact. When the hormones hit, I knew something was not right. I didn't know how to define it, it just wasn't - I was a boy but I wanted to be a girl. It took until 1993 (after quitting alcohol) for me to even find out that I wasn't alone in the world - there were more like me, there was a name for it, and there was something I could do about it. I then played devil's advocate with myself to make *sure* this was what I wanted to do. Then I went to therapy, met the one therapist I mentioned above, didn't see her again, went to someone else and have been with that therapist since.


Do you feel accepted, as a general rule? (How are you treated by people?)

Yeah, generally. I think it helps that I live in Chicago where, believe it or not, you can get stranger things than me in your breakfast cereal. :lol: Yes, there are those that call me a freak, or sick, or other witticisms. They're entitled to their opinions. I usually agree with them, and then point out that at this point, I'm probably happier in my life than they are. Because I finally figured it out.


When you do have sex, (Lacking the G-spot, or do you) do you still have orgasams? How are they different from when you were male? [I have ALWAYS wanted to be male just for a day to check that out]

OK, I'm not qualified to answer this one, because I still have the male tool in the one important place. That's why I'm pre-operative. Check back with me after I've had surgery (which, based on current finances, should happen in about four years - it costs $20K (at least the surgeon I plan on going to) and I am four months away from actually getting about $900 a month that's been going out in child support and debt consolidation back in my pocket so I can actully get the credit cards paid off *and* save up for surgery). I haven't had sex in over a decade. I look forward to the day I have the new equipment, and I can try it out.


The hormonal est/test thing. Different as night and day huh? Wow. How?

Oh my Goddess, yes!!!! I still remember the day I took the first dose of Premarin - June 18, 1997. About a half hour later, I felt the black clouds of my psyche disappear, and I was almost literally bouncing off the walls. I was happy! For the first time in I didn't know how long! Yes, the emotions have stabilized since then, but it was like having a 22 year case of PMS suddenly depart. (Which leads me to suspect that PMS is nothing more than testosterone poisoning. :lol: )


I've learned so much already from these posts, would you mind teaching me some more?? :thinking:

That's a trick question, right? :wink:

For each of us, it *is* different. Some are not comfortable talking about it, some *would* prefer to leave the maleness in the past and not think about it too much. Some, like me, once you get us started, you can't get us to shut up. :pokepoke:

Note that I'm always speaking here of Male to Female transsexuals, because that's my experience. There are also Female to Male transsexuals, I know a few, and they're also absolutely wonderful people.

[AllieSutherland]

On the other hand, I know one tranny who told her family. Her family went out and had a full church and graveside burial for their son, complete with headstone and casket! It's not an easy thing, but if my being out can help just one person who doesn't "get it", then out I'll stay. And I've helped more than one person "get it".

:shock: ... and I'll say it again... :shock:

DAMN, that is a real shame. It really is.

Josie, I am glad that we have strong, beautiful, talented women like you and Suzanne among our ranks... I truly am. And so many others of us Wenches that have really fought tooth and nail to be happy... through whatever it is that will make us feel happy, complete, and fulfilled.

Thank you for being so open, Josie. You're the first transsexual I've "met," and you have helped me to understand more about what it's about. I'm sure you are helping many, many more people learn, too. :)

:grouphug:

XOXOXOXOXOXOX
Allie

[jmthane]

You're welcome, Allie.

I was going to add another thought I had after I'd signed out and shut off the line to my ISP - then couldn't get back in until now! :irked:

In the "When you have sex" department: I would also point out that there are some TS who, going from MtF, stay with their wives and carry on a perfectly normal lesbian relationship (or, for FtM, stay with the husbands and carry on a normal gay relationship). There are others who want to do it with a member of the opposite sex. And there are those, like me, who are Bi - personally, just because I want to do guys, I still want to do women, too. I see no point in discriminating based on gender - besides, it would be hypocritical. IMHO. :D

The best way to look at it is: sexual orientation is who we're interested in; gender orientation is how we feel about ourselves.

[Suzanne Boyce]

Riah,
I'll do my best to give you my impressions as a woman that has had SRS (Sex Reassignment Surgery). While I've never considered myself Transsexual, as I was "born" this way, so my identity is naturally occuring in my opinion; for clearity, I'll call myself a WBT (Woman Born Transsexual) for this post.

"How open about my desire to be a woman or change was I?"

I was *Stealth* (hiding it, no one knew) until I was 21. I told my parents around this time, and that admission cost me my father. He had little to do with me after that. Since that time, I've been very open about it.

"How do men react when you make a pass?"

I've done some flirting with men, and been flirted back with; but I identify as a Lesbian...I like women, not men. I've been hit on recently by a hunky guy, so I would venture to say men see me as an attractive mid-aged woman...or an *easy* wench.

"Have you always felt like a woman?"

Yes, always. From my first very basic feelings at age 5 or so, I instinctively somehow knew I was a girl; that I was like my mom. I never identified with boys, or wanted anything to do with them. That was a catch 22...the boys didn't like me because I was girly, and the girls didn't want me because I was a boy.
I have always know in my heart and very being I was a girl.

"Do you feel accepted as a general rule?"

If you're asking do I "pass" as a woman, yes, I do. I've had my share pre-op and post-op of *exclusion* by women that themselves fought for inclusion. I've been denied access to groups based on the past they assumed I had, and not based on the woman I am. I was accepted with open arms by most of the Orange County lesbian community, which is why they invited me to be part of the Dyke March organizing committee. Some women can sense that I'm a woman like them, others want time so I can prove myself to them. Generally I suppose I find more acceptance than not. I still have a feminizing facial surgery to go, but I'm happy and have many wonderful friends.

"When you do have sex, do you still have orgasms? How are they different from when you were male?"

Yes, the new parts all work and I do orgasm. How they are different...well, the male big O always starts in the male member, and washes through his body from there. It passes rather quickly, and is a single burst of energy.
As a woman, I find there are several different kinds of orgasm. There is the more surface clitoral big O, and there is a much deeper vaginal big O. I'm also able to have multiple big Os now, one after the other. It does take a bit longer as a woman to get turned on than it did in male mode; but the big Os flush through my entire body now as a woman; they aren't localized like in guys.
The "G" spot. The prostrate somewhat reverts to the "G" spot it is in a woman, and it feels and reacts as a womans does. I'd say that my experience of sex as a woman is close if not exactly like yours.

"The hormonal estrogen/testosterone thing. Different as night and day, huh?"

I think so. Its a fact that what makes a woman a woman is hormones. They feminize the body, the mind, emotions, set our identity, give us a sense of ourself...and if you run on estrogen, you're a woman like it or not. The power of estrogen to transform the body is awesome.
Testosterone I think gives you an agressive edge, makes you confrontational, action oriented, always thinking you can muscle your way through life. Its a very un-emotional feeling I think, devoid of the ability to see beauty, feel real sympathy, and an uncaring feeling. A mans always interested in satisfying himself first. When sex is over, he rolls over.

Estrogen is like turning on a light in an inky dark room. I felt so calm and lite, and at peace. I noticed colors, and within them, hues. I began to feel a softness in my spirit, and a distinctly feminine feeling. My body began to change; hips formed and a waist. My breasts went from flat to nearly a "C" cup in 2 years, my skin softened, and as my thinking and feelings and emotions became feminized, I found that I felt a conscious and sub-conscious connection to women on a very deep level. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what made men tick, or why they were like they were.

As my identity as a woman became set in concrete, and the estrogen brought on PMS and bloodless monthly periods, I began to understand the complexity of women and why we are as we are. That tears sometimes are for no reason, and that cramps, water weight and tension can make us bitches. Every 23 days or so when the curse is upon me, I know for the next 4 days not to work patrol or write tickets because I'm pissed off and loaded for bear. I'm low on estrogen and carry a gun...any questions???
So, yes, the feelings I have now that I have the female hormone level of an adult woman, are those shared by all women. Estrogen determines these feelings and emotions; not us.

I hope I've touched on what you're looking for?

I don't want you to think that I would be so silly as to assume I'm a woman "exactly" like you. I'm/we're not *exactly* like genetic women. WBWs (Women born women) have a life experience many WBTs don't. You were raised as a female from birth, have had that socializing experience of growing up female in a male world. You've experienced the rituals and trials of being female. You've experienced moments important in a girls/womans upbringing that many if not most WBTs missed out on. I don't think we can be exactly like a genetic woman, since we can't totally erase the imprint that male rearing made upon our lives. We know things and feelings no woman ever could. While I am a woman, I will never be a woman with the same memories as you.

I am luckier than most WBTs, in that I was raised by a single mother from birth as a daughter. Until my 8th birthday, I was Anne; a normal little girl with all the dreams and expectations little girls have. It ended at age 8 because I was being abused by my moms boyfriend, and a teacher saw blood on the back of my dress. Its a long story, but I have paid some dues and do know some of what growing up female was like.

I've always "hung with the girls", even in High School and College, I was "one of the girls". I've been invited to slumber parties, did the hair and nails thing; screamed when the Beatles came to America, loved John and used to write "Mrs. John Lennon" on my note books at school. I've had my moments. Aside from the Vietnam war and being sent to the bloody hell of the Central Highlands in 1968, I've tried to be true to myself and to be who and what I was.
I fell for a great girl in 73 and married her. I don't think she grasped what I told her, but we had a very happy marriage and two awesome kids. It took her 24 years to get it. "You mean you really do want the operation?"

She actually thought I was a crossdresser all those years and never understood I was being me. Four years ago, after we parted ways (she was cheating) I started hormones again, only under a doctors care. I started therapy, as you have to do both to qualify for SRS. For 4 years I jumped through medical hoops, and lived full time as a woman to make transition after surgery easier.
I turned 54 Nov. 18th, 2002...on my fathers birthday, Nov. 25th,2002, I had the surgery. It was the most emotional and wonderful moment of my life; waking up and being told by the nurse..."Su-san, you're a woman now." I'd never felt so proud, so whole and complete. The operation did'nt make me anything I wasn't already; it just brought my body into line with my heart.

Yes, the surgery is very painful, and for four days after srs, I thanked God it made me pass out, as I'd never felt such a searing pain before. But, for the *privilage* of being a woman, I'd do it all over again.

I hope this helps you understand more. If you'd like to see my horrible drivers lic. picture to see what Suzanne looks like, send me your email address and I'll send it to you. Take care!
Suzanne
IWG #590

[Riah]

Suzanne,
I got to the point of girlie things and Mrs. John Lennon and thought "Bullshit, if she's not a woman" :D
To both you and Josie,
Thank. You. Pre and Post Op. Facinating.

I'm sorry neither of you were born a woman and have ahd to experience the confusion and loss that you've had to go through just to be yourselves.

But on the other hand, especially since you took the time to look inside and take the time to broaden my understanding and acceptance; Selfishly, I'm very grateful.

:smooch:

I wish you both nothing but happiness and love.

(You girlie-girls, you.)

A big hug for your courage to being an inspiration for being yourself.

Riah

[Suzanne Boyce]

Riah,
Thank you for caring enough to ask Josie and I about our lives. Communication is always good when it helps us better understand something. Your willingness to learn about a class of women more used to *exclusion* than *inclusion*, is refreshing.

All women are different in some way; a German woman has a different experience of life than an Iraqi woman...but in the end we are all women; experiencing the same treatment, the same pay, the same devaluation by men, the same monthly pain. I can only hope that one day all women will be equal in the eyes of women, and that together, our voices one...we can bring about change that will benefit women around the world. We have a way to go, because not all women are proud of who they are, not all women have self-esteem, not all women have a roof over their head or food to eat.
But, as long as there are women like you and Allie and the others here that care; there is hope. Thank you for caring.
Suzanne

[jmthane]

What Suzanne said.

But I want to add this: A lot of people have called me (and probably Suzanne) courageous, or brave, for going through this and for being open enough about it to help others understand. That's not how I see it, though - I do what I have to to stay alive and happy and (reasonably) healthy. That's not courageous, that's survival. I will grant that talking about it takes a certain amount of courage, but that courage is also seen in people like Riah, and Allie, and the numerous others (daBaroness comes to mind, and my bandmates) for being willing to ask the questions, and for being open minded enough to accept that, just perhaps this aspect of life isn't a bad thing for some and that, under the skin, we're all people. It takes courage to face and accept the unknown, and in the Ren Faire community, we are blessed to have a very large percentage of Rennies be that courageous.

So thank you all for your courage and bravery.

[Suzanne Boyce]

What Josie said! Yes indeed!
Suzanne :blossom:

[daBaroness]

A bit off topic, but has anyone heard from Jeannie Fitzgerald of late? When I was trying desperately to make sense of what my former fiance/high school sweetheart told me about his lifelong belief that *she* had been born into the wrong body and now at 43 made the choice to make things right in her life, it was Jeannie who provided me with incredible information and understanding. Had it not been for Jeannie, I doubt I'd have been able to make the transition from being Craig's lifelong love to Anne's lifelong friend.

Jeannie helped me to understand, not only intellectually, but also emotionally what was going on - and also helped me (in an incredibly compassionate way) understand in fulfulling her lifelong dream, Anne had not intentionally dashed my dreams. Jeannie's explanation of looking at "sex" in three different ways gave me the intellectual understanding of transsexualism I needed to springboard my own healing from. The way she put it: There is sexual orientation ... the gender one is sexually, emotionally, romantically attracted to. There is birth gender - the sex you were born into - male or female. And there is brain gender - the sex/gender you feel or see yourself as.

In most cases - one is born female (for example), feels female, and is attracted to males. In other cases, one is born female, feels female, and is attracted to females. Some current thinking, at least in the case of male to female trans, is that at some point during fetal gestation, the baby is awash in female hormones that somehow "overtake" the male fetus, causing the person, born into male genitalia to actually be female in terms of brain gender.

I would never profess to know the reasons why people have to suffer in this way. I would never profess to truly understand how it would feel to be a foreigner in one's own body. I do, however, believe that the term "normal" is anything but. Having experienced my own challenges with clinical depression; my children's challenges with adhd and clinical depression, and the body chemistry problems of all varieties experienced by every member of my extended family (on both sides), I am convinced we are all challenged in one way or another to discover our own "normalcy." The real challenge is to stay true to our own self-discovery in the face of living in an ignorant, narrow-minded, fear-filled society whose definition of normal is a complete oxymoron. Trying to define one's self by a standard that doesn't really exist can be traumatic at the very least.

When Anne was still Craig he hurt me a great deal. I felt used and betrayed. Of all the people in the world to lie to, to deceive, and to break the heart of ... of all the people who would have done her level best to understand given the opportunity ... He told me reconnecting with me, proposing to me, planning a longed-for life with me was his last-ditch effort at being happy as a man. He wanted to be the man I thought he was ... and the funny thing is, the thing I liked about him so much was that he wasn't like most guys. In fact, (laughing now) I used to call him my not-guy. Little did I know ...

After more than a year on hormone therapy and a name change, we had the same conversation, but her take on it all had changed considerably. As Craig, this person I'd loved for a lifetime and who betrayed me so painfully was unable to understand how devastated I was. But as Anne, this person I'd loved for a lifetime took the time to explain a lifetime of confusion and unhappiness, apologized for the damage done to our relationship by self-protective lies, and worked to forge a new, honest relationship with the only person left from her past.

Indeed, each person's experience is different. Anne has, and wants no contact with her family. To say it was an abusive, dysfunctional family would be like saying the Pope is a little bit Catholic. Sadly each person in the immediate family has horrible demons they've each tried to slay by themselves. There never was a sense of family - there was no loving support, no working together, definitely no unconditional love. And in the end, I know this is why Anne has always looked to me for what was lacking in her own family. From the time we were 15 years old, she longed for what she saw in my family - and what I gave her ... love and acceptance.

She was recently able to answer a question I asked out of desperation shortly after her revelation to me about her "secret" ... I asked, "if you've always known you were a womanand wanted a relationship with a man, why the HELL did you pursue me back then ... why did you reenter my life and turn it upside down 30 years later?" Her answer was this, "I didn't know why back then, there was just something about you I was so incredibly drawn to and it scared the hell out of me. But now I know what it was, you are an amazing person with an incredible capacity for compassion, understanding, and unconditional love. God lead me to you way back then because She knew I needed you."

Are ya crying yet? I am. Our capacity for love is only limited by our stupid sensibilities!

daBaroness

[cyd]

I want to thank BOTH of you for being so honest about the whole experience... Suz, I think that's the first time I've heard someone post-surgery say what sex is like afterwards... Josie and I have had a number of conversations pertaining to transsexualism before, and I have always been gratified at how open she's been with me about it... Many of those who've gone through or are going through that change aren't nearly as open, because of either shame (because they didn't follow the "script" that's fed to us as children), or because of fear (of the reaction of the people around them).

I know someone who until recently I thought he was "just" a crossdresser... And found out that he honestly thinks of himself as female (although he still goes with a male name and has a beard). And without my experience talking to Josie, I wouldn't have necessarily understood. And I thank you both for coming out and saying all of this... Too many people fear what the reacton of the world is going to be...

Thank you both for being so open. Josie, I know you say it isn't a matter of courage so much as doing what feels right... But being so open about it IS a matter of courage. Taking the first step to make changes IS something that takes courage (peer pressure and parental pressure is a difficult thing to get over). Being able to talk to people openly about it and not whisper in the dark IS courageous. Every time you talk openly about it, you run the risk that someone is going to ridicule you or call you "unnatural" or "a sin against god" or something else equally hurtful. There are too many idiots out there who won't take the time to see something from all sides, and if you're not just like them, you must be "evil" or "sinful".

Josie, I actually verbally clobbered a co-worker over the head a few months ago, for your sake, because of his ignorance and intolerance. He has not taken the time to get to know someone who has gone through it, he just thinks it's "a sin against god". I asked him where in the bible it says "thou shalt not change genders". After an hour's worth of steady conversation (and having the answers to his questions thanks to conversations with you), I think I sent him from "dead set against" to "my god, I'm confused..." Amazing what a strictly logical conversation on the whole thing will do... Because his only argument against was "it's not natural, they were born the other way", and I kept countering it with all the medical science out there that was changing people from the way they were born, were people with congenital birth defects who got them repaired "unnatural" too? If he believed that fixing things that were "wrong" at birth shouldn't be done, his wife wouldn't have gotten those amniosentesis done on both their children in utero. I'm starting to know too many people who've gone through or who are going through that change to allow ignorance and fear to hurt the people I know and love... I may not have changed my co-worker's mind, but I certainly made him think about it.

To thine own self be true, ladies. It takes courage to be true to yourself instead of allowing society to dictate it for you.

Sometimes I think we're all a little bit of both the yin and the yang (been doing some interesting reading lately, that's all I'll say). In some, the yang outweighs the yin, or vice versa, no matter which way they were born. I'm female, was born female, and will continue to remain that way, it just feels right. For you both, and for others, you felt different than that which you were born with, and have gone through what you felt it took in order to make things right. And for that, I commend you. It DOES take courage in order to stand up for yourself and do what you think is right, no matter what.

Suz, I don't know you, but I do know Josie, and I met Jeannie once. I know I love Josie for who she is. She is a wonderful woman. Doesn't matter that she started out life differently, she's a hell of a woman to me. Thank you both for being so open about your experiences... Because by being so open, you take people from being merely tolerant to actual understanding...

You make me very proud to count you among both the wenches and among my friends... And I think you inspire a lot of people to be more true to themselves...

Cyberhugs,
Cyd

[AllieSutherland]

Because his only argument against was "it's not natural, they were born the other..."

Even though it isn't directly linked to this case, I have to lend some food for thought to this guy...

:hmm:

Wonder if this guy has ever heard the FACT that there are many, many births every year where children are born with BOTH sets of sexual organs/fully functioning urinary systems? I, myself, know of two children with whom this was the case. My sister is a doctor, and has delivered babies like this too. If the "higher power" creates them, then give the higher power the credit of seeing beauty and good and acceptance in ALL things and ALL creation. One of my favorite things are when some people claim, "God doesn't make junk," and yet, are all too happy to claim homosexuality, transexualism, etc. as "unnatural" and "abominations of God." :pfft:

If he wants to bring God/god/goddess into it, I think he'd better do a little more research. Nothing turns people away from religion faster than the ignorant who won't educate themselves. Something tells me the higher power doesn't appreciate ignorant people "speaking" for him/her/it. ;)

People with the smallest minds sometimes have the most "open" mouths. ;) Good for you, Cyd, in speaking up!!!

XOXOXOXOXOX
Allie

[jmthane]

One of the things I keep hearing is that "God doesn't make mistakes!"

My reply is, "Yep. That's right. And here I am! :D "

Cyd and daBaroness are both dear friends of mine, who I am very proud to know and who I know are also caring enough to help others understand. Bless you both.

[MisRed]

HBO films will be premeiring their new film "Normal" on March 16th at 10pm. Jessica Lange and Tom Wilkenson start in a film about what changes in a family when "Dad" becomes a woman.

The interview with Jessica Lange is amazing, and she says :This movie is about what changes the heart is willing to make."

No, it doesn't look uplifting or happy, but since the conversation is ongoing here, I thought y'all might like the "Heads up".

[jmthane]

Thanks for the update. I don't have HBO, but that one would be interesting to see, if anyone who does have it would be willing to tape it for me. :pweeease:

[Honey Bee]

daBaroness,

Last time I saw Lady Fitzgerald was at the Las Vegas Days of Chivalry RenFaire last October. She was as beautiful as ever and in very good spirits even though her job is still wearing on her nerves.

:lurking: This has been an interesting thread to follow, especially as I've spent many hours with Jeannie discussing her situation. She gave me a great understanding of what some women go through, and the one thing that was truly impressed upon me was the courage it takes to face the truth about one's identity. So much of what I've read here is exactly what Jeannie related to me about her own experiences.

I wish continued happiness to all of you.

[AllieSutherland]

Thanks for the update. I don't have HBO, but that one would be interesting to see, if anyone who does have it would be willing to tape it for me. :pweeease:

Josie -- I'd be more than happy to tape it for you (or anyone else) and send it along. E-mail your mailing address to me at [email protected] .

XOXOXOXOXOX
Allie

[Isabelle Warwicke]

A couple of things...

"I believe that PMS is just testosterone poisoning." Hey Josie...can I swipe that and use it? :rotfl:

Honestly, I have shed tears over this thread as I read through it and realized how strong the race of women is...I am simply...amazed. :grouphug:

[Suzanne Boyce]

Wenchie poohs,
I'm utterly amazed at how great you're all being, and how awesome it is to find such understanding and acceptance. I'm so impressed that you've all taken the time to look into gender and srs, and taken that extra step to understand how we feel and what we've been through in our lives.

We all have our problems, and big or small, we cope. We become survivors; able to shoulder stress that would kill the average person. In the bad times, many girls thought of ending it all..."If I can't be a woman, I don't want to live." But our spirits would never allow us to do such a self-destructive thing, because like some biological imperative, we have to realize ourselves, we have to correct the birth defect we grew up with, and because we so treasure womanhood, we try to be the best women we can be.

Most of our stories are very much alike, our torments, our anguish at not being whole, our envy of every single girl we saw during the daily course of our lives. So many can't handle the nightmare and end it; because its easier to face death than it is life. Its hard for women who were born women and have lived their lives as females, to imagine how important being a woman can be to someone like Josie or myself. Thoughts of it consume your life, and the tears are endless. The aching pain that fills your heart and makes you scream into your pillow; the constant prayers before bed, praying you'll wake up a girl.

This isn't a thing I'd wish on anyone, and there were many times this last year that I didn't think I'd ever be able to get srs, and I was resigned to live a miserable life until the end. But, I was driven, as we all are, to connect with my inner girl, and to make happen what needed to happen. I saw no other option. When I woke up and was told...Su-san, you're a woman now...even as drugged as I was; I cried. It was such an emotionally powerful realization...the gift and privilage of womanhood was mine to cherish forever. Somehow, getting my drivers licence with my name and an "F" next to sex, made it real.

I thank you all for caring and asking questions. I hope at the Glen Helen gathering to meet some of you. My garb is being custom made by a great seamstress and long time rennie, and most likely won't be ready for faire this year; but I'll be there anyway. If any of you will be at Glen Helen, please let me know where you'll be and I'll drop by and say hello.

There is one last think I'd like to say...you've all said it, and its true; its whats in our hearts, not how we look. We were saddled with broad shoulders, male size hands, all the yuk stuff, and not all gals have the money to afford the magic of Dr. Ousterhaut, and some gals will never really "look" like a woman. For those of us able to get nips and tucks, its an on-going program. Understand that we are doing our best be women you'd be proud to have as friends. I'd love to know some of the So.Cal wenches, get together now and then, and be a friend.

The wisdom you've all displayed here is encouraging, because there has been so much negative retoric and attackes in our lives. You all make me proud to be a wench in such company, to be a sister and friend, and most importantly...you make me proud to call myself a woman. I couldn't ask for better role models.
Thank you for your vision and trust.
Suzanne
[email protected]

[Honey Bee]

Suzanne,

I plan to be at Southern opening and Memorial weekend unless personal business interferes. Are you a member of Friends of Faire? I spend time in the FoF garden - maybe we could meet there one weekend? When Lady Fitzgerald is at RPFS, she spends time there, too. I'me sure you'd enjoy meeting her.

[emalia]

Ok.. Since we are asking the questions we wouldn't normaly ask.. I will add one. How do they create the male body part for a Female to male transition? I can see how they would do it for a male to female, but I am not quite sure how it would work the other way around. I am not being mean, I just don't know. And how do they add the urethra?

[Bonnie]

LOL...I've been too busy with life stuff to post much lately, but thank you Tia. I've always been rather curious about that myself. And since I'm here, lemme just say that I have never had the opportunity til now to talk with any transgendered persons, and having read this thread, I am amazed at your courage and candor. Born ladies or not, you are both REAL ladies, fine women, and a credit to our gender. I hope to meet you both one day.

[Pico de Gallo]

Suzanne wrote:


Testosterone I think gives you an agressive edge, makes you confrontational, action oriented, always thinking you can muscle your way through life. Its a very un-emotional feeling I think, devoid of the ability to see beauty, feel real sympathy, and an uncaring feeling. A mans always interested in satisfying himself first. When sex is over, he rolls over.



From the XY contingent:

okay can we say sweeping gender-alizations? Some of us actually DO wait until our partner gets there before we do.


I only roll over to change position. lol

Interesting subject , if not topical with the advent of "Normal" on HBO.

[Nevada]

Suzanne and the the other transgender ladies...my admiration for all of you is endless...I have actually viewed a transgender operation of male to female and can only give the deepest curtsy to you for having the courage to not only declare to the world you are a woman but to go through the actual, from what I understand, very painful transition...dont worry about the shoulders...I was born female but got my dads shoulders ...if anyone gives you guff about your choice...just remember You are Wench!! and the only opinion that truly counts in the end is your own.....

[jmthane]

Allie - I'll send along my address via e-mail. Thanks.

Isabelle - what I always find amazing is that I think I'm the one who coined that phrase! Swipe away, but if you use it in a sig file or in print or something, please give credit.

Bonnie - there are a *lot* of people looking at this thread - over 300 views, and under 25 replies so far. Hopefully all the viewers are getting something out of it. It's a tough thing to face, from either side (living it or meeting it), and y'all (as I've said before) are great.

Pico - you seem to be in the minority. Bless you.

Nevada - damn right!

Emalia - basically, it's skin grafts and repositioning of some of the body's natural plumbing, and possibly use of surgically usable things as well. An FtM op is a *lot* more expensive than an MtF, and a lot of FtMs don't have it done, because of the expense and the much greater risk that it won't work.

And just as additional general information - when I came to realize and accept that I was TS (or WTB), I decided very early on that, except for SRS and electrolysis, I wasn't going to have any other surgery. Dr. Ousterhaut is a wonder, but I seem to be pretty passable as I am. I don't even need breast augmentation, I suspect. I'd be quite happy to get rid of this beer gut, though...

Some of you I know. Some of you I only know through the forum, and via e-mail. Hopefully I'll be able to meet up with you at some point, though. :D

[Suzanne Boyce]

Emalia,
I have a FtM aquaintance, and the operation, as Josie stated is far more difficult, risky, and the results aren't anywhere as good as with MtF.
The penis shaft and scrotum are fashioned from skin grafts which leave scars at the donner site usually.
The FtM can pee through the penis as the urethra is to short, so they continue to pee as a woman. (I'm told there is some grafting being tried to allow a man to pee, but as urine is so caustic, there have been complications)
The finished penis is okay, probably GREAT if you've always wanted one. To allow erection, the pump is inserted, the intake and release in the scrotum. A usable "hardness" can be achieved by pumping the pencil like tube in the penis shaft up. The new man can't ...you know...but gains satisfaction from the male sex act, and satisfying his partner.

There are problems...infections, lumpiness, scarring on the penis, around the head, etc. Still, knowing how it feels to be one thing and look like another, I can understand why FtMs still get the operation risks or not. I know my aquaintance is happy, and just as I was as giddy as a school girl when my breasts started to grow, he felt the same way when his beard came in, and hair appeared on his chest.

I think there are feelings and emotions that are gender specific; that all men and all women experience as men and women. We may not expect them or even know they exist, but mother nature has a way of taping you on the shoulder and saying..." Hey, you wanted to be a woman, so these feelings and emotions and realities are yours, they come with the territory."
I see it in post-op women, in my post-op FtM aquaintance...estrogen makes certain things happen as testosterone does. You remove testosterone and estrogen goes on a feminizing spree, overwhelming you with sensory overload. I walked around for weeks after my surgery thinking, "Why'd I do that? I've never done that before." or "Wow, where'd that thought come from, this feels really good." The kind of woman you will be, or man, goes way beyond your "planning", because there are influences in play you have no control over.

When a lesbian identified woman that can really do fine thank you without men in her life, is suddenly filled with a deep and burning desire for a man, longing to be taken and filled by him, her desire overwheling...you can bet that estrogen and mom nature are at work trying to make the new girl compatible with her new hard drive. Its nature, its natural, its life as a woman. The forces at work are the same forces genetic women are influenced by, that drive their lives. Thats my opinion anyway, based on my experience, and other post-ops I know.

I will be at Glen Helen, and hope to see all of you there!

Suzanne

[AllieSutherland]

I'd be quite happy to get rid of this beer gut, though...


If you find an effective surgery for THAT one, let me be the FIRST in line. ;) From things said on here, there's a lot of us that could use help with this... any docs out there offering a Wench discount!?!? ;)

Wishing for a LESS Pooh-esque physique... ;)
XOXOXOXOXOX
Allie

[cyd]

I'd be quite happy to get rid of this beer gut, though...


If you find an effective surgery for THAT one, let me be the FIRST in line. ;) From things said on here, there's a lot of us that could use help with this... any docs out there offering a Wench discount!?!? ;)

Wishing for a LESS Pooh-esque physique... ;)
XOXOXOXOXOX
Allie

Yeah, let me know too. Hubby dear would likely be among the first behind you... Got teased by his dance team last night 'cause he's got great legs, great butt, and a beer gut. *smirk* One of his dance team members is pregnant, yet people seem to be having a bigger issue getting past his belly than getting past hers... *chuckle*

I can see it now... the day I decide to have kids, people are gonna start comparing bellies... ;)

Cyd (he'd love to get rid of the beer gut, but that would mean getting rid of the beer...)

[Nevada]

Hahaha...told my Rogue he could always give up beer to get his gut down...He looked at me like I had declared war on him hahahaha

[Tink]

It is pretty damn cool of Suzanne and Josie to answer all the questions. I am glad that we've all created such a open and supportive environment that we all can share things like this without feeling uncomfortable. I think we all ROCK!!

Reminds me of a conversation I had with my best friend after he told me he was gay. I had all these questions about gay sex, that I finally got answers too. :lol: We heteros just have to know *everything*

['Nise]

The Discovery channel recently (er well January) had a series on sexuality. There was a one hour program on reproductive organs and children born transgendered, treatments etc etc. Afterwards there was a hour long program about why the sexes behave the way they do.

Partially because of meeting you this summer josie and partially because I'm curious I watched both. They never teach that the reporductive organs start out pretty much the same in health class. And that there are more male babies at conception but the mother's body tends to turn some of the fetus' female early on.

Thanks to everyone who has shared, this is facinating, I enjoy the open communication.

Love to all
'nise

[Dranaan94]

I recently read a book called Normal (by Amy Bloom) which had a very informative chapter on transexuals, specifically FTMs. I enjoyed it very much and found it informative and mind-opening.

To the ladies who responded to all of the original questions, I can't thank you enough for your candid answers and your honesty. I am in awe of your courage, though you may not see it as such, and I am honored to count you among our sisterhood. I hope that I will meet you in person in the future so that I can physically offer you the hand of friendship that I am figuratively offering here.

Respectfully,

Dranaan

[Beatriz]

Thank you, Ladies, for asking and answering such thought provoking questions and provind such an interesting and informative discussion.

Josie, although we've never met, I have "gotten to know you" through your posts, wench chat, etc. You may not think you are brave, but you are. Being so open about the choices you've made, even if you feel that you had to make those choices is an act of incredible bravery.

Suzanne, thank you for adding another voice and another perspective to our understanding.

It's conversations like this that make me truly proud to be a member of the IWG.

[Leela]

This is just TOTALLY fabulous...

Thanks for all this great education, ladies!

I just want to recommend my all time favorite book on the female body...
Woman: An Intimate Geography by Natalie Angier.

With chapters like:

Cheap Meat: Learning to Make a Muscle
Spiking the Punch: In Defense of Female Aggression
and
Wolf Whistles and Hyena Smiles: Testosterone & Women

she gives a wonderful, graphic, and incredibly researched map of all our many parts & what makes us tick (besides sex and chocolate)!

Just seems like this group might be interested!
Cheers!