Bully or Bullied - Share Your Experiences

[daBaroness]

The thread about the Red Lake shooting got me thinking about childhood and teen-age bullies and those they bullied. My guess, based on the thoughts and opinions expressed by so many wenches is that many of us experienced some level of childhood bullying or another in our formative years. I know some of the things said to me and some of the things done to me by mean-spirited kids in my childhood have indeed had long-ranging effects on my life, my beliefs and my self confidence.

I'm not into blame, but I think the dynamics of being bullied - and perhaps of bullying - are at the core of many of my adult fears and insecurities. It wasn't until the last five years of my life (and I'm nearly 49), that I've been able to look in the mirror and think what I see ain't so bad. As a young teen in Junior High I remember the constant pressure to wear, do and say the right thing or face horrible taunting and ridicule. Things as stupid as wearing white socks or really any socks (rather than stockings with garters - pantyhose were just getting on the market) might just garner you the unwanted attention of some ninth-grader bent on destroying your self esteem.

As much as I hate to admit it - those small, seemingly insignificant incidents, when lumped together had a very negative impact on my life for a long time. A child's peer group is a very powerful molder of self-identity. In my case I think the ridicule and bullying contributed to my self doubt and affected my fear of putting myself out there and risking. It wasn't until I was in my 40s that I dared push the boundaries of my fears and self doubt in so many areas of my life.

Ironically, for someone who lived in fear of being mocked, ridiculed and laughed at as a child, a teen and even a young adult - it's interesting that I now seek to be the source of laughter - whether it's with me or because of me. I'm perfectly willing to put myself out there and be a foole if it will brighten someone's day and evoke a smile or laughter. I guess it's more therapy than I knew ...

So - what's your experience with the bully or bullied discussion? Were you tormented by some loser classmate over something that seems insanely inconsequential nowadays? Did you bully or mock someone else - and was it as the leader of the pack or just part of the pack out of fear if you didn't victimize someone else - you might just be the victim yourself.

Please share your thoughts and personal experiences ... if my suspicions are correct - I think we'll see a common thread among us. I know for certain our experiences played no small part with us now identifying ourselves proudly as wenches and rogues ...

[emalia]

I think that if parents did their jobs, bullying wouldn't be a problem. I think that parents need to teach their children self respect and confidence. I also think that things get blown out or proportion, and are WAY over-dramatized. Teach your children it isn't their fault that someone else is insecure.

Grow a skin, cowboy up, and get over it. We are raising generations of wimps that need to butch up. There is no reason for it. You know what, Life is Tough, they should be taught to learn from it and move on. Tell your children No, stick to your guns and make sure that you don't over coddle them .

[Dmitri]

The bullying was a symptom... My Alopecia was the big culprit... With your head looking like you're going thru Chemo, you self esteem kinda falls thru the basement. Compound that with the bullying and the glaringly easy object of ridicule...

Yeah... it was tough... I like to think it made me a better person. Stronger... More tolerant.

I alos feel because of my past that I have Carte Blanche to make fun of anyone and anything. Why? because first and foremost I learned to make fun of myself... You crack a joke at my expense and it's funny I guarantee I'll laugh the loudest...

Guys, everyone has it tough some times in their lives... Get over it and get with living.

[Pathos]

I moved to a new school in '81 when I was a sophmore in high school. The school I left had 25 kids in my class...the new school had over 300. You could say it was a serious case of culture shock...from the country to the big city so to speak.

I wasn't shy at my old school because I'd known everyone there all my life but I was very overwhelmed at the new place and as a result I came across as VERY shy for awhile. Naturally...the bullies could sense that and jumped on me soon after I got there. I got pushed around for a few weeks by the biggest and baddest of them all.

Finally...I came to the realization that I either stand up for myself now or forever be labeled a punk. I chose to stand up and...if necessary...take a beating. I called the bully out after school one day and it turned totally into a scene from a movie with a whole mob in a circle around us in the schoolyard.

Much to my own surprise...I took the asshole down relatively easily and from that day on...no one messed with me. I even ended up being pretty popular by the time I graduated.

I've always felt that standing up to a bully is a fundamental part of growing up sometimes. No...we don't want to advocate violence but sometimes just a little applied in the right manner can go a long way. I could be wrong but I think some of these kids who go on shooting sprees just never have the nerve to stand up. Let's face it...the risk of getting your ass kicked is a big part of what makes standing up for yourself such a defining moment. And it's THAT decision that builds character. I think...a few mistakes aside...THAT confrontation with the bully made me a better person and I'm very proud of myself for it.

As I stated in the other thread, there really was nothing physically I was bullied about...which was why I was so upset by it, maybe if they called me ugly or fat or anything, but just because I had a job and took care of horses???

It made me such a stronger person, I stand up for myself. I had a fall back when I ended up in an abusive relationship with a diagnosed sociopath a few years after high school which caused me to look at my lack of self esteem for years after wards, but that which does not kill us makes us stronger.

People think I am a bitch, well yeah I guess I am perceived as such, but that is because I was so quite for years in jr high and then in my 2 year on off relationship with the psycho (who did go to prison for a while).

I say what I think and feel and it took me a long time to do so. I get admonished for it on both boards, but I know I speake my thoughts and feelings and there is nothing wrong with that.

And for every person who thinks they can quash my voice, they can live the life I had where my voice WAS quashed by cruel kids and a cruel man and the years it has taken me to find my voice again and not be afraid to use it.

I ave seen horrible thingsin my life I would never wish on anyone....being 19 and having my dog killed as a punishment to me for asking to buy more dog food.
Have a pregnant friend show me terror in her eyes as she saw me being beaten.

I think the way I was in my realtionship was the exact same way I was in jr high. I felt totally helpless to help myself. In jr high it was because they were the coolkids and if I did speake, it was only worse on me down the road. With Isaiah, it was the same, the more I fought, the worse it was, so like jr hihg, I shut up and let it happen as a part of the way life is.

I finally learned it is not the way life is.

I have a voice now, and I am not afraid to use it, or to help peole who may not have the strength yet to use their own voice.

I think those two incidents have taught me so much. I still have some esteem issues, but I work through them and for those who get to know me, they see that initial perceptions are most usually wrong about me. I am a freak in large groups of people or new people, but that is a deeper safety mechanism that I have been working on as I age.

I think it is horrible that people cannot get over the torment of what has happened in high school or jr high. I know for some people it is hard to get over something so ingrained in them at such a young and impressionable age. I cannot imagine having to remember things like putting salt on the open wound again and again for years.

Sometimes, they need to go outside themselves and seek help from others, be it friends or professionals.

Some others will never go and get help and will continue to remind themselves of those incidents for life and some maybe for the good, others maybe for the bad....

I just hope peole are able to one day step back and say, so what...everything, nomatter how horrible, can make the person better, not bitter..

Muffin

[Lady Laurel]

I think it has made me a more tolerant person. I was bullied pretty bad in junior high and part of high school. I was shy, quiet, and I did not conform to the way others dress. I was in a nutshell my self. I got beat up pretty bad, called names, even had some boys do some things to me that are truly unmentionable.

Later on in High school ( Different school) people liked me for me.
The one thing I regret was not fighting back but I was so small compared to the others it would have probably gone worse for me.

What I figure was I was a late bloomer. I became more outgoing later in life and now bullies don't bother me. I know they probably have some kind of mental problem. :wink:
That is what a restraining order is for.

[Magdalene]

I think that if parents did their jobs, bullying wouldn't be a problem. I think that parents need to teach their children self respect and confidence. I also think that things get blown out or proportion, and are WAY over-dramatized. Teach your children it isn't their fault that someone else is insecure.

Grow a skin, cowboy up, and get over it. We are raising generations of wimps that need to butch up. There is no reason for it. You know what, Life is Tough, they should be taught to learn from it and move on. Tell your children No, stick to your guns and make sure that you don't over coddle them .

Agreed.

I do think that when adults *see* it, or have it reported to them, they do need to address it. But I do think kids need to learn how to handle themselves and realize that there are people out there who aren't nice, and they're going to have to learn to deal with them somehow.

I got picked on every so often while in school. My dad's advice was basically I needed to learn the difference between what I could handle on my own, and what I needed help with. One girl making fun of my clothes, I needed to handle on my own. A group of five boys looking to gang up on me to beat me up I needed help with.

I probably did some picking of my own back, to be honest.

Teach kids it's not nice to do it, yes. Teach kids that they don't have to put up with it, also. Keep an eye out for stuff going too far. But some of it....they need to handle on their own.

[Alianne]

I think that if parents did their jobs, bullying wouldn't be a problem. I think that parents need to teach their children self respect and confidence. I also think that things get blown out or proportion, and are WAY over-dramatized. Teach your children it isn't their fault that someone else is insecure.

Grow a skin, cowboy up, and get over it. We are raising generations of wimps that need to butch up. There is no reason for it. You know what, Life is Tough, they should be taught to learn from it and move on. Tell your children No, stick to your guns and make sure that you don't over coddle them .

Not specifically directed at you, Tia, but I find it ironic that the vast majority of the 'buck up and get over it comments' come from those who are *not* parents.

What if the child, for some reason, does not have the complete capacity to 'grow a skin...and get over it'? What if the child is very young, or is disabled in some way?

I say this because my eldest, from first grade through fourth grade specifically, was the target of bullying because of a disability. David and I were aware of his disabilities, he had been receiving specialized instruction -- both in home and out of school -- medication, therapy and so on, from the time he was 3.5 years old.

At the same time, he was not 'coddled'. He was loved and encouraged -- but between his disability and the bullying, his sense of self was in the dumpster by the time he was 7.

The bullies, aware of what buttons to push to get him to lose his temper and react, gleefully did so...and when he did react, *he* was the one to get punished. Which we understood -- he acted inappropriately. When he named names, we would ask that the perps at least get equal punishment. What we got was 'their parents were spoken to'. My son got in-school suspension.

After he named names, the bullies took their attacks off the school grounds and little to nothing could be done, even after calling the police a few times (some of the attacks got physical and that's when we called -- not just for name calling).

What did he learn? Two things, mainly. One, to stop naming names. Two, to hate himself even more than he already did.

The upshot? By the time he was 10, we had to hospitalize him because he thought that he -- and we -- would be better off if he did something like walk in front of a car because the bullying would stop. I just thank G-d that we encouraged communication so that he felt comfortable enough actually verbalizing this sentiment and we were able to get him even more aggressive help than we were giving him at the time.

Can you imagine being 10 years old and thinking that killing yourself would make everything better?

It took years more work, including an out-of-district school placement, to get him to where he is today -- as happy as any 19 year old probably is (though still insecure about interpersonal relationships with peers, but successful ones now that he's in college is helping greatly there), in a demanding program in a demanding university.

But I will tell you that when it was time to fully mainstream him when he was entering 11th grade, he was *still* very scared about the kids who had bullied him so badly years before. He was afraid it would start up all over again. In a way, having to move out of state for my job 2 months into the school year was a blessing for him because it gave him the chance to start anew in a school where no one knew him. He was finally able to make some friends and get involved in activities.

So, I think it's very easy, especially when one isn't a parent, to sit back and make pronouncements and pass judgements.

Do I think there's some bad parenting out there? Of course I do.

But I also know that there are kids out there who, despite the best efforts of parents, have problems and end up falling through the cracks because the schools don't have the resources or the money to help provide services that many of these children are entitled to by state and federal law....by a government that continues to cut back on funding for early care, early education and services, especially to those in low-income, high-violence areas where many children come out damaged by parental drug use and the like...and even for those children who are born healthy, end up not getting adequate care, either medically or psychologically because there's not enough money being spent to help mitigate these problems out of the gate.

So many families, are forced to have both parents work just to put food on the table and a roof over one's head.....yet, there is oftentimes inadequate, affordable child care available....affordable housing...affordable medical insurance........So, you have parents who themselves are stretched to the limit, doing the best they can, and are so stressed out themselves that they miss the early warning signs in their children.

I don't think there's any one 'reason', nor any one 'solution'.

[WenchLadyKate]

Back in high school, I was one of those kids who got along with almost everybody, until my junior year when it seemed I got the plague. I went from being well liked to completely ostracized over the period of one summer. I'm still not sure why, and I wasn't one of those kids able to "cowboy up". Now, sometimes, and I know it seems silly, but I still feel like I'm being singled out, or made an example of, and I'm sure it goes back to that September that I went back to school to find out that I was basically alone.

My whole junior and senior year of high school was torture. People made fun of me, I got into a few minor fights, my grades plummeted since I basically shut down, unable to deal with what was happening. I had a few friends, but they were the "wrong" crowd. Eventually, I was so miserable, that even my mother told me that it would be okay to drop out of school. This was after it was already suggested by a couple teachers and the principal.

Anyways, I still think about it from time to time, but it's much better now. I've learned that it dosent matter what happened then, it only matters what happens now, and I've got more control over what actually does happen. And I actually didn't need therapy to come up with that. :-)

[AshleyTheWench]

I have been made fun of since Preschool. sadly it still goes in in college, and it has shattered myself worth, I sometimes think its shattered beyond repair. Ih ave a had time trusting anyone, wondering if they are laughinga t me behind my back, being my friends out of pitty. being picked on is a very damaging thing, but I think the worse was when I was laughed at for crying at school when my mother died. That shattered me fully. So now I have a fear of people, getting toknow them, which is probably why I dont have a bf and all that jazz

[Artos O'Dalriada]

I was picked on a bit, mostly because of my build, when i was younger. Especially when i went into sophomore year in high school, i had grown quite a bit over the summer, so i was quite tall, at about 6'3"...but i was 6'3" with a 29" waist. beanpole basically. one kid picked a fight with me cause i didn't look like much, being so thin. he got slammed into a row of lockers and taken down. the teasing in general didn't stop, but the more serious stuff and picking fights did.... it didn't shatter me, but i did develop a 'keep the hell away from me' attitude, and a mistrust of people. got a thicker skin too, i didn't care what they said, long as they didn't touch me everything was fine. took some years since school, to work on the trust issue, gotten better but still have a hard time trusting people. takes alot to earn it.i'm workin on it though.

[emalia]

Not specifically directed at you, Tia, but I find it ironic that the vast majority of the 'buck up and get over it comments' come from those who are *not* parents.

None Taken. I am not sure if it has to do with children or no children, but how we were raised. As a Child, I was taught as Magdalene suggested, know the difference, and buck up. I did. I am not damaged by it. :)



What if the child, for some reason, does not have the complete capacity to 'grow a skin...and get over it'? What if the child is very young, or is disabled in some way?


Then I think that is a completely different story. I think that it deserves a different approach. But they also need to be taught that kids are mean, and that they say things to hurt, and generally reminded, it isn't them. That there is nothing wrong with them.

[Dmitri]

I find it ironic that the vast majority of the 'buck up and get over it comments' come from those who are *not* parents.

I *am* a parent... and I believe that 99.9% of kids need to buck up and get over it...


What if the child, for some reason, does not have the complete capacity to 'grow a skin...and get over it'? What if the child is very young, or is disabled in some way?

Again, and I know this will piss you off, (and yes I read the whole post) I still believe that the child needs to Buck up and get over it. And that every kid can be taught to have a thicker skin.

Self worth is NOT learned at school, it's learned at home. My child tells me everything. And yes I know she does, because she tells me things that she keeps from her mother. Why? I'm not sure but I'm sure gonna keep encouraging it!!!! Has she been bullied? Of course... But I've taught her to defend herself. Stand up for herself, and most importantly, see that just because people say something doesn't make it true.

I'm *not* claiming to be the best parent, or any better than anyone else. But I do think that children are TOO protected these days. We're creating germ-phobic, angst-ridden, self conscious, politically correct, frightened adults...

Think about it... Little league takes all kids, Kids aren't left back in school... Christ! You may not coddle your child but society sure is...

So yeah... Life's tough... Live it, learn it... Get a fucking helmet...

[emalia]

Self worth is NOT learned at school, it's learned at home. My child tells me everything. And yes I know she does, because she tells me things that she keeps from her mother. Why? I'm not sure but I'm sure gonna keep encouraging it!!!! Has she been bullied? Of course... But I've taught her to defend herself. Stand up for herself, and most importantly, see that just because people say something doesn't make it true.

I'm *not* claiming to be the best parent, or any better than anyone else. But I do think that children are TOO protected these days. We're creating germ-phobic, angst-ridden, self conscious, politically correct, frightened adults...

Think about it... Little league takes all kids, Kids aren't left back in school... Christ! You may not coddle your child but society sure is...

So yeah... Life's tough... Live it, learn it... Get a fucking helmet...

AMEN!

Self worth is not learned in Schools. I couldn't have said it better. And I think that kids should play in dirt and leave their Purell at home.

[Lady Sarah]

AMEN!

Self worth is not learned in Schools. I couldn't have said it better. And I think that kids should play in dirt and leave their Purell at home.

and get scraped knees, get into fights (once in a while), eat their own bogies (you know who you are! :lol:), try to seriously eat mudpies, bugs, or whatever they find outside, ride bikes, play a game of pickup baseball with their friends, learn that they have to share their toys with the other kids... and I could go on.

Look at the way we were raised. We didn't have our mothers sitting beside us in the playboxes with anti-bac wipes/gels. We rode our bikes and fell off to get scraped knees - and it was MOM'S kiss that made it all better, not a visit to the clinic for tetanus shots and butterfly bandages. We wore our scars proudly (some of us still do). We didn't have the luxury of plastic surgery simply because our noses were too big, or breasts too small or our butts weren't tight enough. We had to accept ourselves the way we were.

And for the record, no, I don't have children. But my own parents told me to "get over it" more times than not. They also tempered the "get over it" times with "I love you" and "I'm proud of you". If "get over it" was good enough for me and my brother, then it's good enough for my neices and nephew and my own future children. After all, I guess I'm an anomaly. I don't do drugs, I've never been arrested, I lead a good clean life. Something somewhere worked out right.

[emalia]

and get scraped knees, get into fights (once in a while), eat their own bogies (you know who you are! :lol:), try to seriously eat mudpies, bugs, or whatever they find outside, ride bikes, play a game of pickup baseball with their friends, learn that they have to share their toys with the other kids... and I could go on.

Look at the way we were raised. We didn't have our mothers sitting beside us in the playboxes with anti-bac wipes/gels. We rode our bikes and fell off to get scraped knees - and it was MOM'S kiss that made it all better, not a visit to the clinic for tetanus shots and butterfly bandages. We wore our scars proudly (some of us still do). We didn't have the luxury of plastic surgery simply because our noses were too big, or breasts too small or our butts weren't tight enough. We had to accept ourselves the way we were.

And for the record, no, I don't have children. But my own parents told me to "get over it" more times than not. They also tempered the "get over it" times with "I love you" and "I'm proud of you". If "get over it" was good enough for me and my brother, then it's good enough for my neices and nephew and my own future children. After all, I guess I'm an anomaly. I don't do drugs, I've never been arrested, I lead a good clean life. Something somewhere worked out right.


I was also told to get over it by my parents, I also knew that I was loved, and that they were upset with me, and disappointed in me. Yes, I had good grades, I had straight A's and a B once, yes, I did get in trouble for the B.. Why, because nothing was good enough for my Dad. But it was because he wanted better for me than what he had. And well, good grades are what got me into college. My parents barely made it out of high school. Yes they pushed me.. But I still played in the dirt. I still had scraped knees, I still fell off my bike. As a matter of fact, I ahve had more black eyes than I can count. Why? Because I played Basketball on a Varsity level from 8th grade on. I got picked on, I wasn't skinny, but you know what? That just meant I tried harder. I used it to fuel my fire.

[Lady Sarah]

I was also told to get over it by my parents, I also knew that I was loved, and that they were upset with me, and disappointed in me. Yes, I had good grades, I had straight A's and a B once, yes, I did get in trouble for the B.. Why, because nothing was good enough for my Dad. But it was because he wanted better for me than what he had. And well, good grades are what got me into college. My parents barely made it out of high school. Yes they pushed me.. But I still played in the dirt. I still had scraped knees, I still fell off my bike. As a matter of fact, I ahve had more black eyes than I can count. Why? Because I played Basketball on a Varsity level from 8th grade on. I got picked on, I wasn't skinny, but you know what? That just meant I tried harder. I used it to fuel my fire.

and you turned out to be a strong woman, didn't you? the trials and tribulations that we were so grievously forced to endure (can you smell the light sarcasm there? :lol:) shaped us into the people we are. I feel sorry for the kids who have no guidelines or goals set down by their parents, who aren't given the opportunity to play in the dirt with other kids and get black eyes, scrapes, bumps, cuts, and bruises.

[emalia]

and you turned out to be a strong woman, didn't you? the trials and tribulations that we were so grievously forced to endure (can you smell the light sarcasm there? :lol:) shaped us into the people we are. I feel sorry for the kids who have no guidelines or goals set down by their parents, who aren't given the opportunity to play in the dirt with other kids and get black eyes, scrapes, bumps, cuts, and bruises.

What doesn't Kill me, only makes me stronger, and I am DAMNED goodo at making Lemonaide!

[Lady Sarah]

What doesn't Kill me, only makes me stronger, and I am DAMNED goodo at making Lemonaide!

:lol: I was always rather fond of the "cut it up and find the salt and tequila" variation, but lemonade works for me.

[Malarky]

As a teacher of middle school age students, I've seen the crushing effect that bullying can have on a kid. Suicides and rampages are the most obvious, but how many of us had the ever powerful "stomach ache" when we were kids. I'm sure that at some point and time, all of us did.

Kids can be extremely cruel. It goes farther then name calling, but now with children being as sexually active as they are, there's so much peer pressure to submit to things that you're not comfortable with. I say this to myself every day, literally, I could not be paid enough money to be back in middle school. That was the worst time in my life - between being chubby and trying to find a niche with friends... I don't envy these kids at all. I have so much sympathy for them and the home lives that they lead that I've got to stop and take a step back and remember that they're just children in these adult bodies.

[Mairi the Herbwench]

This is a very dificult question. As a kid, I never lived anywhere long enough to have to worry about bullies, and my mom instilled a good sense of self-worth in me so that if some one did call me a name, it was easy to ignore.

However, there are a lot of kids out there that aren't coddled, that are well loved, and given a sense of self-worth, that are bullied and can't deal with the pain. These are the kids that tend to turn that pain outwards, and either bully others or injure themselves.

And then, there are the kids with no home support, no one to turn to, and no way to learn to "cowboy up". These are the kids that injure others and get killed.

Red Lake isn't that far from where I live - the devestation that it has brought to an already devested area is horrendous. The vulture press is all over the area, which it had ignored up to now, our govenor is pledging his support because that was an area he wanted to put a casino, and the Representative from that area is in Europe. This all happened because one kid was picked on. One kid was bullied. One kid had no one to turn to. One kid.

What if it was your kid in that school?

[AshleyTheWench]

For all of you saying buck up and get over it, you know what? Its hard, its DAMN hard! Do you know what its like to be beat up for crying when your 16 because your mother dies? To be verbally abused, and laughed at saying that your mom probably wanted to kill herself rather then have you as a daughter? When your sevent o be gained up on by twenty people while others cry kill the beast as others beat you up? Do you hvae any idea what its like to have rocks thrown at your head making GASHES in it because you dont like the stuff they like? If you cant answer yes to any of these questions, do NOT say get over it. Thats BS. Would you tell a wife beaten by her husband, or a woman that was raped to get over it? It IS a tramatic problem, and YES I was taught self worth, but its hard to have self worth when people shatter it and make you feel like it would be easier to slit your wrists then go on living. Thankfully I never gave into that urge, though god knows I wanted to.

Get over it huh? Tell that to the kids that shoot up schools. Tell that to the innocent bystanders that never once bullied that kid.

Ya, right. I'll "get over it"

[Magdalene]

I think that if parents did their jobs, bullying wouldn't be a problem. I think that parents need to teach their children self respect and confidence. I also think that things get blown out or proportion, and are WAY over-dramatized. Teach your children it isn't their fault that someone else is insecure.

Grow a skin, cowboy up, and get over it. We are raising generations of wimps that need to butch up. There is no reason for it. You know what, Life is Tough, they should be taught to learn from it and move on. Tell your children No, stick to your guns and make sure that you don't over coddle them .

Not specifically directed at you, Tia, but I find it ironic that the vast majority of the 'buck up and get over it comments' come from those who are *not* parents.




True, maybe we aren't....but we were once children who got picked on, and had parents who taught us how to successfully deal with the bullies. As I'd mentioned, I'd gotten picked on/bullied a few times in school. I dealt with it (depending upon the situation, I either ignored til said bully got tired, retaliated, or if it looked nasty, snitched like hell.)

Do I remember these events? Sure--they happened. But they don't traumatize me for life because I learned how to handle it.

Again, as I pointed out--there are times that parents really do need to step in (I did read your entire post). There are obviously some very extreme cases. But I believe my dad's advice still holds merit....learn what you can handle on your own, and what you can't.

[Bonnie Strangeways]

Wow, Ok, firstly, I have to ring in with the "Buck-Up" crew here. My childhood was a mess of self-doubt and anti-social behavior, due in large part (my own opinion here, no Doctor's note for me!) to a childhood/young adulthood filled with pysical and mental abuse by my parents. I was a prime target and punching bag for every bully out there.

Did it make my school years suck? Yes, it did. However, did it make me determined, nay, OBSESSED to better myself and get the fuck outta there? Damn skippy. I'm 10 times the better and stronger person for it. Would I go back and change any of it? Nope, I look at it as a growth experiment, pack my kit, and move on.

Now, I'm raising two wonderful little boys. Both of them have their own burdens to bear. My eldest has epilepsy, with developmental issues on the side. My youngest was a premie, and still hasn't caught up. They come home everyday with their bully-tales and bruises. My husband and I believe in the school of hard knocks. Doesn't make us any less caring or loving to our boys, but it does make our boys stronger, and more capable of DEALING with what life gives them. Keep in mind, what they learn in school will carry them through life. If they cow and scrape to bullys now, how will they ever deal with tyrannical bosses and nagging department heads?

My eldest wants to follow his Mommy and Daddy and become a Marine. My youngest shows promise to be one of the top dirtbike riders in the country. They go play in inclement weather, fall in the mud and dirt, run into trees with their dirtbikes, and play like LITTLE BOYS.

I agree completely with the statements that kids need to be KIDS, no mini-adults. They need to get dirty, fall down, get hurt, but most importantly, learn how to pick themselves up, dust off, and get back in the saddle.

[daBaroness]

First of all - Alianne, I still think you're a goddess, girl! We really have to meet in person sometime!!!

Next, I think most of us bucked up - elseways we wouldn't be here to tell the tales now, would we? At age 49, I know I was raised in a much, much different world than the one my sons are growing up in. No, I don't think children were kinder and gentler. I do think they were stronger, more resiliant and better prepared for adulthood than kids today because parents didn't have the financial resources to turn 'em into molly-coddled twits.

I've tried my level best to raise my sons (as a single mom) with a combination of love, compassion, support and strength. I know I find that on the rare occasion I've been told to "get over it" it REALLY, REALLY pisses me off. Why? Because very few people have even a clue of what I "get over" on a daily basis. We don't know by looking at someone what events, triumphs and tragedies have shaped our neighbors, our classmates, our coworkers, etc. And even immediate family members don't know exactly what is going on in their spouse's, child's or sibling's heart, mind and psyche at any given time. When someone tells me to get over it - it just shows me they don't have a clue and they generally don't have a lick of compassion or understanding, either.

Since I have boys, I know I parent differently than I would with girls. But whether I had girls or boys, I've always tried to mix enough concern, support and nurturing along with minimizing the drama and tragedy in any given event. My youngest son used to hate the sight of blood - particularly his own. He'd scream like his butt was on fire if even the smallest scratch dripped a drop of blood. But once the wound was cleaned up and a band-aid kept any further blood from his view - he was good to go. Screaming one second - laughing and romping the next - all because of a little TLC and a band-aid.

But physical wounds are easily healed - and because they are physical - we can see them and gauge our reaction and our response to what we see as concrete evidence of hurt. Emotional, psychological, spiritual wounds cause stronger, deeper, longer pain because we can't judge by looking whether it's a scratch, a gouge or a bone-deep gash. We don't know in a glace what course of treatment should be taken - whether a small band-aid will make everything all better - or if their wound is bleeding out and threatening their life.

I've always been one of the most open-minded, compassionate people I or any of my friends, family, coworkers, etc., know. I can deal with topics that would probably make a longshoreman blush. My kids' friends are amazed that I know about drugs, sex and rock n'roll and aren't afraid to brooch any subject. I even cajoled my 20-year-old son to tell me when, how and with whom he had his first sexual encounter ...

So naturally I just knew my kids would always tell me everything. I went out of my way to make it safe for them to share their biggest joys and their darkest fears. I was approachable, I was plugged in, I was understanding. But the thing I underestimated is that I'm their mom - and there are things they've done they don't want to talk about with me. Why? Cuz I'm a girl; cuz I'm a mom; cuz they love me; cuz it's none of my bee's wax, cuz they don't want to disappoint me and cuz they don't want the responsibility of making right something they've done wrong.

It took me a long time and a lot of soul-searching to realize my son's occasional desire to keep something from me is not a hideous crime, it's not a failing on my part, it's not poor parenting, it's not too much or too little attention. It's just human nature. And I realized I myself don't want any one person to know every last detail of my life - every mistake, every regret, every joy, every lustful thought. I don't want any one person to know what I really wanted to say but had the sense not to. It's not realistic and it's not healthy.

I had to realize that some of the things I wanted for my kids are neither under my control, nor should they be. I finally remembered that as great a relationship I have with my own mom, I sure as heck don't want her to know everything. There are something things I did in my younger years that I'm sure would curl, uncurl and recurl her hair. And I know that many times I've underestimated he capacity for acceptance and innate motherwit. I'm sure she knows things that I did that would still embarrass the hell out of me if I knew she knew. So it's a little game we play and little secrets we keep.

But that's in the best of families - under the best of circumstances. Geoff - I hope you never find out the things your daughter does as a teen that she doesn't want you to find out :lol: Most of us don't want to disappoint our parents and we don't want to feel further humiliated or shamed by them finding out everything we've done or said.

So many people are asking WHY this young man did what he did in Red Lake. I wonder why they're asking why ... First, his actions weren't rational or justifiable or explainable - probably most of all to him. We always look for reasons to make sense of senseless things - and the irony is our search is senseless. Maybe something significant did happen to touch off a tragic chain of events that morning. Or maybe he just woke that morning and the conditions were just right - the stars were just aligned to pull him that hair's width over the line. Nothing in particular, but everything in general.

Maybe something snapped inside and the last of his hope left him - and nothing mattered anymore. Not his life, not his grandparents' lives, not the lives of his classmates. Maybe he did it for revenge, maybe he did it for attention, maybe he did it as a final act of control in a world he felt helpless in.

Fortunately I've never gotten far down deep enough to experience that snap. But I've been damned close - and not for any logical, explicable reasons. What kept me and probably countless others from doing the same thing on a daily basis? I'm convinced it is hope - and some days our hope is only kept alive by those who love us - they lend us their hope when ours seems gone. And that tiny bit of borrowed hope is enough to help us get over that hump. And tomorrow is a better day.

I just still feel so sad about the entire situation. And though I hate the word victim and the feeling of helplessness that goes in tandem with it - I think everyone in this situation is a victim. And though many may agree, I think the most profound victim was the boy turned killer. Can you imagine the depths of depair - the dark thoughts - the dark feelings he must have experienced to have led him to gunning down other children and innocent bystanders. And the darkness grea and spread when his emotions spilled over and led him to think murdering others and taking his own life would be the answer to the problems he thought he had. There were so very many other alternatives for his child - that he never saw and never got a chance (through his own actions) to contemplate because his despair clouded his sight.

[AshleyTheWench]

Well said daBaroness, two karma points to you

[Malarky]

Self worth is not taught in schools, but in a lot fo cases, it isn't taught at home either. I work in an extremely low class district and my kids see more abuse at home then I can ever know.

How can we expect a kid to know right from wrong when the only thing they respect is someone screaming in their faces and physical abuse? I'm not condoning it, but a lot of my students will listen to men more then they'll listen to a woman because at home, dad is the one who hits mom and mom listens. (That's a generalization.)

Now, when do we stop accepting a crappy home life as an exucse? "My mom hit me, so therefore, I hit my kids?" As a society, we accept this and tolerate and think to ourselves, How awful," but what do/can we do?

And why are schools the ones to who get nailed to every cross for not parenting these kids enough! I do my best with them for the 40 minutes that I've got them. I can barely get to subject matter becuase I'm counceling babies on having babies?!!!!

Well, I'm off my soapbox now. Sorry for the rambled rant :)

[Alianne]

I'm sorrowed at the complete lack of understanding and compassion that's being displayed here.

Yes, we've all been teased and bullied. I know I was....but I was also blessed with a wonderful mother who kept assuring me that I could do whatever I wanted to do -- that I was smart, talented...yadda yadda, so that I had the inner skills to tell other kids to kiss off if they didn't like me for how I looked or what I said or did.

Not all kids have that.

And there's teasing and there's *abuse*.

Go back and read Ashley's posts. Read them carefully. Read a lot of what Muffin's written.

Try to get into their heads and under their skin and try to put yourself in their shoes -- into their hearts and minds and for just one minute, *feel* their pain. Really *feel* it.

This isn't about kids playing in the dirt. This isn't about 'everyone's a star'.

This is about *abuse*, pure and simple.

It's about a society not prepared to cope with changes that are coming fast and furious. It's about a government that appears not to give a damn about its most helpless citizens.
It's about trying to show at least a *little bit* of compassion and trying to understand what cannot be understood.

And, for the record, in case I wasn't clear -- my son was also told on many, many occasions to 'buck up', 'ignore them', 'get over it'. And he tried. He just didn't have the capacity to truly do so until he was a little older.

The thing is, many of these kids who do end up going on shooting sprees began being abused when they were very young...and without any intervention, or even *recognition* that there's trouble, oftentimes, by the time they get to the age my son was when he *could* cope more effectively on his own, it's too late. It wasn't too late for my child, because we *were* aware, we were proactive, we didn't ignore things and got him what he needed to learn to cope.

There are many out there who aren't so lucky.

Don't believe me?

Just ask Ashley.

And admire her because she's *not* out there doing harm, despite all the harm that's been done to her.

(and hon, I'm sorry if I'm putting you on the spot here.....)

[AshleyTheWench]

Oh your not, at all Alianne.

I am sorry your son was teased. My grandparents did everything in their power to trya nd amke it stop, they threatened lawsuits, they threated to g to the media, everything, once my grandma called out every single parent of the kids who beat me up when I was seven and told them under no uncertain circumstances what would happen if their children laid a hand on me again, but it didnt work. They tried everything to help, but unfortunately it doesnt work. I shudder to think how damaged and screwed up I WOULD be if I didnt have loving supporting grandparents to watch me.

I do appoligze if my posts seemd sort of bitchy, it just all rubs ill with me and makes me very sad that in our society we need to pick on people to feel better about ourselves

[saphoenixsilver]

I'm not a parent, and my story isn't as bad as Ashley's, BTW, I am sorry to hear alll that happened to you it is truly a shame, but I was bullied as a kid too. In all honestey I never had TRUE friends until well into high school, and even then I don't have contact with most of them anymore. I was the fat kid, the geek, and the kicker (yes you get teased for that even in Texas). It was truly difficult, I had people trying to fight with me for no reason, and once, someone tried to set my hair on fire. Eventually I got to the point that I was cutting myself, but thanks to my sister finding out I was able to get the help I needed to stop. It's hard when your peers can't realize that despite the fact that your different in some way your still just as human as they are. My mother and sister were always there for me, and because of them, I grew to be the strong individual that I am today. But would I change anything, yes. I would never want someone to threaten to knife me because I'm white and smart, and refused to act like someone I'm not, in a school full of hispanics and blacks, or to try to set me on fire. Sometimes the teasing can leave deep scars that take years to heal. All anyone can do is to try to teach their children understanding, and caring, compassion, and respect for others. It's what I'll do when I have children, and what I encourage my sister to do with my nieces.

[AshleyTheWench]

I'm not a parent, and my story isn't as bad as Ashley's, BTW, I am sorry to hear alll that happened to you it is truly a shame, but I was bullied as a kid too. In all honestey I never had TRUE friends until well into high school, and even then I don't have contact with most of them anymore. I was the fat kid, the geek, and the kicker (yes you get teased for that even in Texas). It was truly difficult, I had people trying to fight with me for no reason, and once, someone tried to set my hair on fire. Eventually I got to the point that I was cutting myself, but thanks to my sister finding out I was able to get the help I needed to stop. It's hard when your peers can't realize that despite the fact that your different in some way your still just as human as they are. My mother and sister were always there for me, and because of them, I grew to be the strong individual that I am today. But would I change anything, yes. I would never want someone to threaten to knife me because I'm white and smart, and refused to act like someone I'm not, in a school full of hispanics and blacks, or to try to set me on fire. Sometimes the teasing can leave deep scars that take years to heal. All anyone can do is to try to teach their children understanding, and caring, compassion, and respect for others. It's what I'll do when I have children, and what I encourage my sister to do with my nieces.

pfft, sick bastards. Everyone of them will rot in hell.

You know that only THREE people out of a mass of 50 or so, ever wrote me an appology letter for their actions? THREE.

[saphoenixsilver]

I'm so sorry to hear that. It's just sick what they did to you, that had to be a horrible experience.

[Ysobelle]

There's no one way to deal with this. There's no one answer. Saying "get over it" isn't going to work, because many of the kids who are affected worst by bullying lack the tools to cope-- which is usually why they're bullied in the first place. Those who CAN get over it usually do.

Those of you who shook it off and moved on? That's great, and I'm glad you had that strength. Just keep in mind that some kids are like sharks: they smell weakness like blood in the water. Sometimes they attack minnows, and sometimes they attack other sharks, and sometimes there's no way of knowing which is which until after the fact.

We can't simultaneously cry that all children are wimps, and all children are monsters. All children are diferent. Some grow stronger from being bullied, some take automatic rifles to school. Some parents tell their kids to shrug it off, and that works. Some parents have to help their kids develop the skills to shrug it off, and that works, too. And some parents just don't know what's really going on, how bad it really is for their kid, or how to help.

There have to be better ways of dealing with the hell some kids go through in school, but the first thing parents have to do is accept other kids and other parents have different needs and abilities, and stop blaming them for some perceived lack of strength.

"I got over it and you should too" is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

[Dmitri]

There's no one way to deal with this. There's no one answer. Saying "get over it" isn't going to work, because many of the kids who are affected worst by bullying lack the tools to cope-- which is usually why they're bullied in the first place.

<snip>

"I got over it and you should too" is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

No there is no one way. But coddling and giving the kid training wheels for the rest of their lives doesn't work either. Then they DON'T have the *tools* to survive in the real world of nasty bosses, belligerent corporate heads, pushy salesmen and general hard times... These coddled kids who whine and cry at bullies will whine and cry at LIFE...

Sorry, fostering THAT is the biggest diservice you can do with a child. My child will be strong and proud of who she is, whatever she becomes. She will have a base of love support with a pronounced sense of self. At 5 1/2 she already exhibits some of these traits. And I'm very proud of the little girl.

Ashley, your posts have alot of rage in them... A seemingly unhealthy amount. Now maybe you're using this forum as a venting place. And if that's true, more power to you. If not and you have these feelings all the time, you may want to look into that.

Am I cold and callous? I don't think so. As a matter of fact I actually CARE...

Honesty. That's caring.

[aspen]

In my experience, "get over it" is sometimes code words for "Your problem is ruining my day, so stop having a problem." Completely uncompassionate. (And sometimes it's code words for "Stop wallowing in self-pity," but the line between them is very fine.)

I was teased and bullied a bit in school, always by "friends", and mostly what it taught me was that some relationships aren't worth having. The "screw you guys, I'm going home" method of dealing with abuse.

Kids need to learn to deal with bullies; they need to learn not to ignore it, not to put up with it, but to be able to stop it. Bullies bully because they can get away with it.

Aspen

[Dmitri]

In my experience, "get over it" is sometimes code words for "Your problem is ruining my day, so stop having a problem." Completely uncompassionate. (And sometimes it's code words for "Stop wallowing in self-pity," but the line between them is very fine.)

Agreed... and for the record, that's not my point of veiw.

[emalia]

In my experience, "get over it" is sometimes code words for "Your problem is ruining my day, so stop having a problem." Completely uncompassionate. (And sometimes it's code words for "Stop wallowing in self-pity," but the line between them is very fine.)

Agreed... and for the record, that's not my point of veiw.

That isn't my pov either.. Mine is deal with it, and move on. Everything can be dealt with, you just have to know how to break it down into managable chunks. I may have an overly simplistic view on life, but esentially, life is simple when you break it down.

[rosefaeries]

My middle son is currently being targeted . He was the first male cheerleader at the middle school. The most recent incident happened last thursday. This boy has targeted my son before. Now, I have told my son to get a thicker skin as far as the verbal bullying goes. And to report it. But physical assault is another matter. That is not acceptable.(Neither is the verbal bullying) I made two phones to the school and talked with the police about it. My son is not the first child to be bullied by this boy. But hopefully he will be the last.

I am doing everything I can about the situation. My son is not being coddled. He is learning to get a thicker skin (and he has come a long way since getting our getting away from the yutz)

[Dmitri]

That isn't my pov either.. Mine is deal with it, and move on. Everything can be dealt with, you just have to know how to break it down into managable chunks. I may have an overly simplistic view on life, but esentially, life is simple when you break it down.

And that's why I love you Doll...

[Bonnie Strangeways]

In my experience, "get over it" is sometimes code words for "Your problem is ruining my day, so stop having a problem." Completely uncompassionate. (And sometimes it's code words for "Stop wallowing in self-pity," but the line between them is very fine.)

I was teased and bullied a bit in school, always by "friends", and mostly what it taught me was that some relationships aren't worth having. The "screw you guys, I'm going home" method of dealing with abuse.

Kids need to learn to deal with bullies; they need to learn not to ignore it, not to put up with it, but to be able to stop it. Bullies bully because they can get away with it.

Aspen

I both disagree and agree with the aforementioned code definitions. (How's that for on the fence? :lol: ) I disagree that it means "your problem is ruining my day..." IMO I think that's taking a constructive comment too personally.

Now, the second definition suggested above, I don't think that's too off-base at all. However, the caveat to that is, don't look at the statement "Stop wallowing in self-pity" as a negative. Does self-pity solve anything? Nope. Does is more often than not make the situation/issue worse, or at least percived worse, than it truly is? More often than not, yes.

Self-pity is a debilitating (spelling??) cycle that feeds upon itself and drags at the emotions and mindset of the individual to where they cannot break out of the depressive state of mind. I don't think that should be encouraged at all. I should think that you would want to "shake up" or "snap someone out of" that mindset. Sometimes, when in such a fugue, the only way to reach them is to come off harsh, or to shock them.

However, I do feel that the statement "get over it" should be followed by consrtuctive conversation and/or suggestions towards resolution of the difficulty faced. Case in point, my eldest came home from school last year crying. I asked what was going on, and he replied that several older boys were pushing him around on the playground, and one punched in the stomach. They were calling him retarded and a sissy, because he wouldn't climb up on top of the monkey bars and walk across them. (he has balance issues because of the seizures, so no heights for him!)

We talked about how that made him feel, and I told him to "get over it" (as far as the hurt feelings go) then we talked about solutions to the issue. Notifying the grounds supervisor, his teacher, not playing near the little bullys, and how to defend himself without violence. He left the next day stronger and more capable of handling this type of negativity.

Get over it is not uncompassionate, it, like any other words in the launguage, can be a constructive or destructive tool. It all depends on how it's used. [/quote]

[Dmitri]

EXACTLY what Bonnie said... And much more eloquently than I could...

[Psyche]

I was bullied when I was young as was my brother. My mother expected that I would shield him from the bullies, so I received a hell of a lot of abuse from the other kids. (But it was better than the punishments I received when I did not shield and protect him.) When I complained, I was told to get over it. My brother? Coddled. My parents boosted his ego so much that he believed he could do no wrong. Because they had taught him that. (Yes, I know they were wrong in how they dealt with it.) I do not think he was ever told to "get over it".

My brother grew up to be a bully. He was verbally, mentally and physically abusive to those around him, unless he was manipulating someone. Then he was smoooooth. But the bullying would begin after the 'honeymoon' period, the moment his manipulations no longer worked.

He blew his brains out in a fit of temper in 2000, with his fiancee and the two children in the house. She had refused to let him bully her anymore.

The irony? My mother blamed me. I should have been there for him (though we had not talked in 3 years) and I should have protected him. If I had protected him better when he was growing up, he never would have been like that. :roll:


I was not a strong child. One day something snapped inside of me and I can remember seeing red for the first time in my life, and I beat the living daylights out of an older boy who had snapped my bra strap and tried to cop a feel one too many times at school. (I was a C cup at 11 and got picked on a lot for being the first to develop.) He had to be taken to the hospital and have surgery done to reconstruct his nose. (Not sure if he was ever able to have children either.)

I guess for me, having been sexually abused at a young age, I equated males who bullied females with rapists. Rapists in Training I called them.

To this day I have zero tolerace for bullies. I do not tolerate it at all. I *will* call a bully on their crap, and generally take them down a peg or 10 while I am at it.

It pisses me off when people turn a blind eye when someone is bullying another too. To many a child who has been abused, those who say nothing are condoning the behavior of the bully. To a child who is in pain, they are just as guilty as the bully, if not moreso. Because had they just spoken up...


I have no idea where I was going with this... damned memories flooded over any point I was making.

I guess I can, in some way, empathize with those who have been bullied and have acted out in violent ways. (No, I am not condoning their behavior.) I understand how one can snap, because I snapped, though in other directions.

Did I "get over it"? No. I learned coping skills and I learned to defend myself in a variety of ways. Sure I wish none of it had happened, but I became a stronger person as a result of it. And I learned to believe in myself.

[Psyche]

Emalia, Dmitri, Bonnie... I agree...

That isn't my pov either.. Mine is deal with it, and move on. Everything can be dealt with, you just have to know how to break it down into managable chunks. I may have an overly simplistic view on life, but esentially, life is simple when you break it down.

And that's why I love you Doll...
I have to agree, what a great way of putting it....

sometimes that is what we have to show the kids, to break it down...and while we cannot force bullies to stop, we can show kids HOW to break it down and handle it (or get over it)...

WE have to give them those tools....

Lucky for me, I was able to figure them out for myself, but some don't and what might be percived as coddeling may be tool giving...

I will never sit there and let my daughter wallow in misery of being teased, but there is a point of sympathizing and allowing them to handle their own issues, it is finding that middle groud I strive for...

being there for her, but allowing her to stand on her own two feet.

I recently told my parents just what my life was likein junrio high and my mother broke down in tears, she truly had no idea, and thought I was just atypical moody teen...
she also knows what a strong person it has made me...

Muffin

[Constance Innuendo]

I don't really like ANY of the options presented in the poll, I don't relate to them thier too black or white. . .
I have a question that has hung over me since I stopped being bullied. . . .I promised myself that if my kids are being treated that way that I would NOT handle it the way my parents did (tell the kid just ignore it and it'll go away) but I still have no idea how I will handle it if it ever happens to my kids. . .

I was a relatively normal kid if you call "normal" wearing cokebottle glasses by age 7, add (when only little boys could have that) and reading on a 5th grade level by the 2nd grade. . . .it was shortly after I got glasses that the bullying began. . . .I did what my parents said and ignored it, because of my refusal to react they started calling me retarded and other things, and the bullying and the playground beatings (funny how even little kids can figure out how not to leave visible bruising. . .I remember one girl holding me down and letting other kids come punch or kick me, yelling at the other kids the could hit me anywhere but the face) got worse. by second grade I was skipping recess and spending it in study hall reading to avoid that scene altogether. In 3rd grade on a movie day some girls wanted to play with my hair and I wouldn't let them , the teacher said I was being paranoid, and to let them. . .they then braided gum into my hair.(which was down past my butt at the time). . . . . .in 5th grade the school nurse sent my mother a letter stating that everyone hated me. (important to point out the nurse's daughter was another 5th grader. Various other things happened until the 7th grade. I was in one of the practice rooms at school, with another not so well liked girl, and for some odd reason I still don't completely fathom, suddenly the door cracked open, the light went out, someone came into the room and I was punched in the stomach. . . well that fight or flight reflex is a pretty powerful thing and with nowhere to run, I just swung blindly. . . someone screamed, I went for the lightswitch. . .there were two boys in the room with us (one apparently had gone after the other girl) and the other was holding his face and cursing and dripping blood. . . .I had broken his nose. . .With the exception of one date in college, no one ever tried to bully me or strike me again. . . that one date learned the hard way as well.
I think that everyone who 'gets over" being bullyed, has one of these defining moments. . .when suddenly the tables are turned. In no longer being "bullyable" some confidence begins to take hold and eventaully healing takes place. . ..
So I guess the problem with the whole "get over it" thing for me is the fact that not everyone who is treated in this way has the opportunity to turn the tables and make that change. At the same time howeverI aso acknowledge that there are some people who abuse the excuse of having been bullied and use it to compensate for never hving grown a pair.

as a side note. . . as you can probably see. . . .I survived the glasses, bad perms, braces, unbelievable height differential etc eventaully. . . I was in every sense an ugly duckling (and imodest as it may sound I'm aware of what I've grown into as well)

[daBaroness]

I hope everyone who is posting here is also reading all the other posts. You guys rock! This is exactly why I posted this topic in the first place. Want to just vent about your experiences? Great!!! It's therapeutic to vent - especially when there aren't any cut and dried answers.

I also stated in my opening post that I anticipated seeing a pattern - and I get to tell myself I was right. What makes each and every one of us here (from Dmitri and his bad hair days to Psyche and her horrible abuse ) the amazing people we are today are the sum of our individual experiences, and the ability to have compassion for the experiences of others. We all are literally like steel - forged in fire and hammered into fine, strong blades able to withstand the fiercest of battles.

Now most of us don't want to battle, we long for peace and contentment in our lives. But we have an inner confidence that if the battle comes, we'll be ready - and we'll survive. We know this because triumphing over our worst conditions has given us strength and courage.

Be proud of every scar you have sisters and brothers - each represents a personal victory. And each has contributed to the person you are right here and right now. Regret is a wasted emotion. We all wish we could have a do-over of some event or some decision - but remember, the wonderful person you are today is the sum product of all of your experiences. You wouldn't be the amazing being you are right now had all of those things not occurred.

And if you don't like the person you are right now because of the events of your past - remember our amazing God-given ability to grow, to change, to recreate ourselves, to nurture ourselves and to heal ourselves. Even if you don't have a family or your family is broken beyond repaire - the combination of recognizing the people around you who love and support you ARE your family, and knowing everything you need is already within you is more than enough for you to grow above and beyond the past.

Keep up the dialogue - this is terrific. Vent away. And continue to be of comfort to those whose stories touch us because of their similarity (in greater or lesser degree) to our own.

You're all part of a truly amazing group of people - the most amazing I've known. You give me strength, hope and laughter - all necessary ingredients to growing and having a happy and secure life.

Blessings all!

[Dmitri]

Every scar, every success, every failure... Makes us who we are...

If you LIKE who you are now... Look back on your life and be THANKFUL that you weathered the storm...

Because if you didn't have the storm to weather, you'd be a COMPLETELY different person than you are now...

I thank my tormentors now... Because they made me who I am...

And I'm a pretty damn good person... Or so Vel tells me...

[Veldrina Vladescu]

Here, here, Baroness! ! Scars not only show u had a life, but that "that which did not kill u made u stronger!" (Besides, each has a story, & s/he with the most stories is most interesting!).


and yes, Wolf, you are the best! :hearts:

[emalia]

Every scar, every success, every failure... Makes us who we are...
If you LIKE who you are now... Look back on your life and be THANKFUL that you weathered the storm...
Because if you didn't have the storm to weather, you'd be a COMPLETELY different person than you are now...
I thank my tormentors now... Because they made me who I am...
And I'm a pretty damn good person... Or so Vel tells me...

Amen (and women).. ;)
That is why I say I have NO regrets.. What I have been through has forged me into the person I am.. Period. I like me. Would I change anything at all? Nope. Not even the hard parts. I have learned lessons, that many don't learn until their senior years.

[I'Cin]

As usual, I'm awed by you all. I don't remember being particularly bullied in school, even though I certainly didn't fit the "norms". My daughter Heather was bullied some, both in elementary school and high school (which was all girls). The high school situation she handled with the help of a teacher and a counselor and some good old common sense.

The elementary school situation I handled like this: She was in about 5th grade and was in the "after-care" at the catholic school she attended. For whatever reason, there were 2 8th grade girls there as well (I later figured out it was b/c they didn't trust them at home alone). The 8th graders were both bigger than me. Heather kept telling me that they were bullying the littler kids, including her, and would trap them in the bathroom and knock them down and kick them, or just hit them. She tried telling the teacher. Then I tried talking to the after-care staff and nothing seemed to change -- until the day I was in there with the mother of one of the girls (who I happened to know b/c the girl had been in my brownie troop as a third grader).

With her mother standing there while we discussed the problem (oh, my daughter would never. . . .), this girl tried to kick one of hte kids and kicked my son (who was about 2nd grade). When I asked what the HELL she thought she was doing, she then said I'm sorry I didn't mean to kick HIM. Mom: Oh, kids will be kids. Which is when I told Heather in front of hte mom and the after-care teacher, that if she saw either of the two girls touch ANYBODY, she was to scream as though she was being killed, pick up the hardest thing she could find and beat them with it while continuing to scream. I also told the older kids standing around to help her if it happened because if the school and the parents wouldn't take care of it, they could. The adults were shocked that I would tell my daughter AND the other kids that. I said they have the right to protect themselves if the adults won't. I then pointed out that the next thing would be lawsuits when either or both of my kids came home with ANY mark that could be remotely traced to the aftercare and/or those girls. There was not another incident, at least that I knew about anyway. And the 8th graders soon found someplace else to be after school.

It might not have been the best answer, but for the time and place it seemed to be good enough. In a bit of irony, I realized a couple of months ago that the neighbors across the street from my new house is that mother and father. He waves at me, she doesn't and I had wondered why . . . .

I'Cin

[Lady Laurel]

Be proud of every scar you have sisters and brothers - each represents a personal victory. And each has contributed to the person you are right here and right now. Regret is a wasted emotion. We all wish we could have a do-over of some event or some decision - but remember, the wonderful person you are today is the sum product of all of your experiences. You wouldn't be the amazing being you are right now had all of those things not occurred.

You are so true. I know I would not be sitting here feel pretty darn good about myself right now if it had not been for the past. Now if I could just shed those 10 extra pounds :wink:

[Pathos]

Every scar, every success, every failure... Makes us who we are...

If you LIKE who you are now... Look back on your life and be THANKFUL that you weathered the storm...

Because if you didn't have the storm to weather, you'd be a COMPLETELY different person than you are now...

I thank my tormentors now... Because they made me who I am...

And I'm a pretty damn good person... Or so Vel tells me...
Not to turn a serious thread into a geekfest but...ever see an episode of Star Trek TNG called "Tapestry?" It's one where Q gives Picard a chance to go back to his youth and rectify a mistake he made that's haunted him all these years?

Well...he takes the opportunity and goes back and changes his own past only to come back to the present to find he's not the captain anymore. Now he's just a lowly lieutenant who never amounted to much.

The moral to the story of course was exactly what the Wolf said above. You may not like the person you WERE but it's because you were that person that you are the person you are NOW. As silly as it sounds...when I saw that episode I ended up doing some heavy thinking about my own past and you know what? I made my peace with a lot of things that had been bothering me.

Picard summed it up well at the end by saying (paraphrasing) "My youth was full of unsavory bits...loose threads. But when I started pulling on those threads I began to unravel the tapestry of my life."

Good advise I think. Not sure if it's really relevant here or not but the Wolf's message reminded me of that.

[Jamianne]

My question on this is, where do you draw the line between bullying and assault or abuse? And where does it become an adult's responsibility to step in? Any adult, the parents, the school, whomever? Because there are sometimes when a child can't handle things themselves anymore, because it just spins out of control.

I was extremely shy as a child (hell, I still am around people I don't know). I also usually did fairly well in school - not quite teacher's pet, but I was well-liked by most of them. And was the first girl in my class to get boobs. This made me a prime target for the bullies in my school. The name calling and being cursed at my parents told me to ignore, and I did. It still hurt, but I sucked it up and delt with it...sorta.

When I got into middle school (7th grade) I had one kid threaten to blow up my house and kill me and my mother the next time my father was out of town (he traveled a lot at the time). And to plant a bomb on my dad's plane. I was scared to death. I believed he would do it (I think he's in jail now for murder). I went to the teacher, who told me to grow up. My mother called the principal, who told her it wasn't the school's problem. She told him that she wanted it on record so that if something did happen, she wanted him to be the first to be investigated. Looking back, we should have called the police.

By 8th grade it wasn't verbal bullying anymore, it was physical. I had boys grabbing my boobs, slapping me on the ass and shoving their hands down my pants whenever the teachers weren't looking. Everyone thought I was just a tomboy because I didn't wear dresses -- that was part of it, but I figured I was safer in jeans than a skirt. I rember one kid, the worst of the group, was in my shop class. He made it a habit to regurally grab my ass and boobs and snap my bra strap during class. One day I finally snapped and tried to knee him in the groin (would have made it if I hadn't had to get around the desk -- lucky bastard) and screamed at the top of my lungs that if he ever touched me again I'd cut off something very valuable. He went running to the teacher who told him to shut up and leave me alone and that whatever he had done to me, he deserved what he got. Word spread and that ended that for a while. I remember the teacher later telling me he was proud of me for standing up to the kid -- he knew the kid was a bully, but without actually *seeing* him do anything, he couldn't do a thing to punish him.

Enter high school. Let's just say that things began to escalate beyond simple groping. I went home in tears every night. I told my parents what happened every night. I begged them not to make me go to school the next day. They told me to suck it up and deal, that it was regular 'harmless' teenage teasing, that boys always tried to cop a feel on the girls. I had been teased before and lived through it. Well, I don't think regular 'harmless' teasing includes two boys holding you while the third touches you wherever he wants.

So, finally, yes, in some ways, what I went through made me stronger. But in others, I feel it made me weaker.

I'm not a parent, yet so take my opinions for what they're worth. I don't think that a child should be coddled, but I don't think that being told to 'suck it up' is the solution, either. I think that kids should be taught how to handle problems, but I do also think that the adults around that child have a responsibility to step in before things get out of control. Everyone's different. Some people can let the insults go, others can't. It's human nature, we're all different, and we all react to things in different ways.[/i]

[merestelle]

There is a world of difference between being picked on and the kind of abuse
that many people have discribed here. Absolutely no one should have to endure
that let alone a child. How many stories have we seen where the abuse turned
deadly. Sorry "get over it" doesn't cut it.

If we are talking strictly about being picked on, that is another story.
I have three sons all with varied degrees of ADD. They were all brought up
with a "no excuses" attitude. You are responible for yourself and how you
relate to people. They were taught to believe in themselves and be individuals.
They always knew they were loved.

They all experienced being picked on at some point in their growing up.
One developed a Joe Cool kinda attitude, nothing bothered him. Of course
mom knows better and usually could give him the opportunity to let his guard
down. He is now 23 and in the Airforce. When he gets picked on because
of his size he just laughs.

Another son was always getting into fights over stupid stuff. He had zero tolerance.
This was a child who as a baby got MAD when someone played peek-a-boo with
him. Brilliant but no social ability. After years of attempting to teach him to turn the
other cheek, and that some things just aren't important enough to get upset about,
We finally sought help. Not too long after he started medication he started making
friends. As a matter of fact he found some very good friends who encoured him
to do better in his schoolwork as well as being kids he could hang out with. They
shared many interests and stood up for each other. He was only on medication
for one year.

The third son always had trouble finding a way to fit in. I watched a very caring
and compassionate child turn bitter and angry after being continually picked on
for years. I also taught him that some things, and some people, just aren't worth
getting upset over. These would definately come under the "get over it" heading,
I rarely if ever felt it necessary to intervene. My son just could not deal appropriate
with his anger. When he was picked on he flew into a blind rage, swinging wildly
and screeming. We spent years in therapy and on medication. It wasn't until after
he graduated high school that he fnally made some good friends. He is still very
akward ,he is having a hard time finding work, he still gets inappropriately upset
about seemingly small stuff. But he has a family that loves him and a few good
friends and that helps him cope.

I guess the point is that even with being taught to move past the difficult points in
your life, with love and support (not coddling) with being taught that if you work
hard enough you cann be whatever you want to be. Not everyone is built the same
some are more equiped to deal than others.

Merestelle

[WenchyMom]

as a child, I had small bullies nothing serious. And yes my parents would tell me that I could do anything and to ignore it, but in my mind at that time I "thought" what the hell do they know they HAVE to say that, I'm thier child. but... Now I'm a mom of 3 wonderful children ( to this day my greatest accomplishments) and my oldest while in school for the 2.5 years was tormented and told that he was stupid and whatever and I saw and heard from him the same thing I thought all those years ago. You're my mom you HAVE to say those things. We've tried everything to make him understand that he can do anything. He has severe self esteem issues and has a very hard time making friends (which is partly my fault since we've move 7 times in 7 years and he's never been in one place very long)

I'm not going to lie, I still have issues, I believe everyone all the time pretty much, I'm very quiet in person, and I'm VERY self concious about my looks. But I've got a great husband who always tells me how beatiful I am, and that's what helps me build my life. Knowing that this one person believes I can do anything, and he doesn't HAVE to believe it.

[AshleyTheWench]

As usual, I'm awed by you all. I don't remember being particularly bullied in school, even though I certainly didn't fit the "norms". My daughter Heather was bullied some, both in elementary school and high school (which was all girls). The high school situation she handled with the help of a teacher and a counselor and some good old common sense.

The elementary school situation I handled like this: She was in about 5th grade and was in the "after-care" at the catholic school she attended. For whatever reason, there were 2 8th grade girls there as well (I later figured out it was b/c they didn't trust them at home alone). The 8th graders were both bigger than me. Heather kept telling me that they were bullying the littler kids, including her, and would trap them in the bathroom and knock them down and kick them, or just hit them. She tried telling the teacher. Then I tried talking to the after-care staff and nothing seemed to change -- until the day I was in there with the mother of one of the girls (who I happened to know b/c the girl had been in my brownie troop as a third grader).

With her mother standing there while we discussed the problem (oh, my daughter would never. . . .), this girl tried to kick one of hte kids and kicked my son (who was about 2nd grade). When I asked what the HELL she thought she was doing, she then said I'm sorry I didn't mean to kick HIM. Mom: Oh, kids will be kids. Which is when I told Heather in front of hte mom and the after-care teacher, that if she saw either of the two girls touch ANYBODY, she was to scream as though she was being killed, pick up the hardest thing she could find and beat them with it while continuing to scream. I also told the older kids standing around to help her if it happened because if the school and the parents wouldn't take care of it, they could. The adults were shocked that I would tell my daughter AND the other kids that. I said they have the right to protect themselves if the adults won't. I then pointed out that the next thing would be lawsuits when either or both of my kids came home with ANY mark that could be remotely traced to the aftercare and/or those girls. There was not another incident, at least that I knew about anyway. And the 8th graders soon found someplace else to be after school.

It might not have been the best answer, but for the time and place it seemed to be good enough. In a bit of irony, I realized a couple of months ago that the neighbors across the street from my new house is that mother and father. He waves at me, she doesn't and I had wondered why . . . .

I'Cin

You go girl, I am proud that you told your daughter that. I applaud you

[Veldrina Vladescu]

OOOFA......sorry to hear about that Jami.....i can't believe ur parents wouldnt back u up, but then i had issues with my own (never that serious, but they weren't very supportive in some areas). I dunno what i would've done...prolly be in jail for maiming/killing them...

And before anyone says anything....kids who cross the line into sexual & physical abuse like that become tomorrow's criminals. If u can't rehabilitate them, shoot them. I have no use for ppl like that. Like a rabid animal, they need to be put down.

That doesnt mean that if I'm a goth kid (which i was & still am) & everyone teases me that I'm gonna shoot the school willy-nilly either.

And re Alianne's "not getting it"...i don't think parents hold the cornerstone re the caring about their kids being bullied....my baby sister was bullied a few times, & some of those bullies came close to a thrashing. The best thing I gave her was a mindset...I taught her how to fight dirty if need be (since reporting didnt always solve much) & i taught her not to care what the other mooks said about her. She also learned that a witty retort was her best defense...takes the wind right out of their sails most times. :wink:

[AshleyTheWench]

Psyche. I am sorry that happened to you darling, I started to cry when I read your post :hugs you:

[emalia]

My question on this is, where do you draw the line between bullying and assault or abuse? And where does it become an adult's responsibility to step in? Any adult, the parents, the school, whomever? Because there are sometimes when a child can't handle things themselves anymore, because it just spins out of control.

When it becomes physical to the point of more than an occasional snapped bra strap, or knocking off of the book bag.



One day I finally snapped and tried to knee him in the groin (would have made it if I hadn't had to get around the desk -- lucky bastard) and screamed at the top of my lungs that if he ever touched me again I'd cut off something very valuable. He went running to the teacher who told him to shut up and leave me alone and that whatever he had done to me, he deserved what he got. Word spread and that ended that for a while. I remember the teacher later telling me he was proud of me for standing up to the kid -- he knew the kid was a bully, but without actually *seeing* him do anything, he couldn't do a thing to punish him.


I has the same thing happen to me in 8th grade. A guy was picking on my in gym class. I finally had enough. He had his back turned to me, and I was sitting down, and made another remark. I got into a crouch, and tagged his nay-nays volley ball style. He went down quick. PE Coach came over, said he didn't see a darned thing but if something did happen, then the guy deserved it. He didn't pick on amyone for the rest of the year.