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Ilanah
04-12-2005, 07:12 PM
Oh...my. Gawd. What is wrong with people?


http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/04/12/killing.wildcats.ap/index.html


Feline lovers, hunters hiss over cat hunt


MADISON, Wisconsin (AP) -- Feline lovers holding pictures of cats, clutching stuffed animals and wearing whiskers faced-off against hundreds of hunters at meetings around Wisconsin to voice their opinion on whether to legalize cat hunting.

Residents in 72 counties were asked whether free-roaming cats -- including any domestic cat that isn't under the owner's direct control or any cat without a collar -- should be listed as an unprotected species. If listed as so, the cats could be hunted.

The proposal was one of several dozen included in a spring vote on hunting and fishing issues held by the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. The results, only advisory, get forwarded to the state Natural Resources Board.

Statewide results were expected Tuesday.

La Crosse firefighter Mark Smith, 48, helped lead the cat-hunting proposal. He wants Wisconsin to declare free-roaming wild cats an unprotected species, just like skunks or gophers. Anyone with a small-game license could shoot the c
ats at will.

At least two other upper Midwestern states, South Dakota and Minnesota, allow wild cats to be shot -- and have for decades. Minnesota defines a wild, or feral, cat as one with no collar that does not show friendly behavior, said Kevin Kyle with that state's Department of Natural Resources.

Every year in Wisconsin alone, an estimated 2 million wild cats kill 47 million to 139 million songbirds, according to state officials. Despite the astounding numbers, Smith's plan has been met with fierce opposition from cat lovers.

Critics of Smith's idea organized Wisconsin Cat-Action Team and developed a Web site -- dontshootthecat.com. Some argue it is better to trap wild cats, spay or neuter them, before releasing them.

In Madison, about 1,200 people attended the Monday evening meeting at the Alliant Center -- more than the 250 or so in a typical year, but less than the 3,000 or so who took part in a debate in 2000 over whether to allow hunters to shoot mourning doves.

One of the attendees was Katy Francis, who wore cat ears, whiskers, a cat nose and a sign that read, "Too Cute to Kill." For Francis, "The cat hunting thing brought me out because it was very extreme."

lady Amalthea
04-12-2005, 07:56 PM
Me personally, I love cats. I would like to go shoot anyone who shoots a cat so they know how it feels. How will people know or will they even care if they are shooting feral cats or people's pets. I have issues with this. :evil:

Ysobelle
04-12-2005, 09:02 PM
I was all astonishment, and I was sure this'd NEVER get off the floor, til I read this part:


At least two other upper Midwestern states, South Dakota and Minnesota, allow wild cats to be shot -- and have for decades. Minnesota defines a wild, or feral, cat as one with no collar that does not show friendly behavior, said Kevin Kyle with that state's Department of Natural Resources.



Now I'm fairly sure roaming cats in Wisconsin are just screwed. This is absolute license for neighbours to take revenge, kids to be stupid and vicious, and psychos to wreak havoc. Hunting deer, okay, at least you'll hopefully eat what you kill. Hunting cats is nothing more than killing for fun.

As for the millions of songbird deaths, that rings a little false in a country that opens its wildlife reserves to oil drilling. Since when has anyone in government given a damn about songbirds?

Drea Beth
04-12-2005, 09:38 PM
Hunting deer, okay, at least you'll hopefully eat what you kill. Hunting cats is nothing more than killing for fun.


Unless, of course, you run a Chinese restaurant! GD&R

You knew somebody was gonna say it...

Ysobelle
04-13-2005, 08:33 AM
(Whimper)

Thanks. Chinese was dinner last night.



Urrrk!

Buxom Wench
04-13-2005, 09:41 AM
:evil: On behalf of Snoopy(RIP), Emilie(RIP), Buddie(RIP), Pumpkin(RIP), Geddie(RIP), Gavin, Baby Kitty, Snuggles & my Duchess, MEOWWWWWWWW!!!

If I saw anyone shooting at a defensless cat, I may not be held accountable for my actions. I have at least 3 cats that dine at my house daily but they are not my pets. I just think a higher being sent them to my house to be looked after as they stay living in their own environment. They appreciate the food and I appreciate the trust they have in me NOT to hurt them.

Sorry, just needed to have my say in all this horror.

Dmitri
04-13-2005, 09:42 AM
Hey I'll use my bow and at least be sporting about it...

Lady Laurel
04-13-2005, 09:57 AM
You know to me this is unthinkable. If a cat is roaming the neighborhood ( if they have a coller on or not ) they are fair game. The neighbor does not like cats heah I can kill the neighbors now when it comes out for the afternoon. They just take the coller off and heah its legal.


Now I'm fairly sure roaming cats in Wisconsin are just screwed. This is absolute license for neighbours to take revenge, kids to be stupid and vicious, and psychos to wreak havoc.

There goes protecting defenseless creaters that cannot protect themselves.

biker
04-13-2005, 10:07 AM
I would like to go shoot anyone who shoots a cat so they know how it feels. How will people know or will they even care if they are shooting feral cats or people's pets. I have issues with this. :evil:

I have mixed emotions on this. agreed that you don't know if its feral or a pet simply because it doesnt have a collar. The only thing/way I would support this hunt is for people like poultry farmers who might be loosing a lot of their stock to the cats, feral or otherwise.

lady Amalthea
04-13-2005, 02:34 PM
[r. The only thing/way I would support this hunt is for people like poultry farmers who might be loosing a lot of their stock to the cats, feral or otherwise.[/quote]

I don't know if I agree with this, there are more humane ways that are just as effective for taking care of cats messing with farmers stock. One of my cats, Sir Thomas, is a rescued barn cat. Me, I would take them all in if I could. I have know use for people who hurt any animals.

Dmitri
04-13-2005, 03:12 PM
I have know use for people who hurt any animals.

Hurting animals... hmmm... Are you a vegan? do you wear leather? Fur? Eat a steak, poultry, pork, fish? Do you eat dairy?

lady Amalthea
04-13-2005, 03:17 PM
okay let me rephrase my response. My feeling is that if your going to kill any animal you damn well better use every scrap. I am not a vegan, I rarely eat meat though, I only own a few peices of leather, mainly for my renn outfit, all given as gifts. I guess my feeling is that if your going to hunt for sport that the animal should get a shot at you too.

biker
04-13-2005, 03:20 PM
lady amalthea

Now has a person who has spent a lot of time on the farm, it may not be right, but it's often a lot quicker/cost effective time wise to spend say a nickel on a .22 shell and dipose of the feral cat then to do a live trap.

lady Amalthea
04-13-2005, 03:25 PM
Well, yes if the issue came down to money, i would agree with you. But I'm just stating my opinion on the subject. I understand and respect other peoples opinion on the subject too. I'm the kind of person who will slam on the brakes in my car to avoid hitting any animal no matter how small.

Dmitri
04-13-2005, 03:31 PM
And we're the kind that will mow the animal down so as not to endanger the people in our cars or the cars behind us...

shadow
04-13-2005, 03:33 PM
so it would be more appropriate to some of you if the cats were hunted down and than skinned and used as ground meat for feeding other animals?

You all are informed about the ecological problems faced by allowing feral cats to live and breed.......................arent you?

I know D has mentioned a few points about the destruction they cause.

Untill you know both sides of the arguement dont go supporting either side.

lady Amalthea
04-13-2005, 03:39 PM
I feel like I'm being attacked for my opinion on this topic. I don't mean to offend or make anyone angry. I'm just stating how I feel, yes i know people don't agree with me and that's fine. I don't want this message to come across as me saying your wrong I'm right, because I'm not. I understand many people have many opinions and I'm just telling mine. In this case I don't think there is a right and wrong side, yes, i can see the benefit of thinning out the population of feral cats in certain areas, i just think that pets should be left out of it. In this it comes down to the owners to make sure that their cat is properly tagged to people will know that they are a cherished pet and not a feral. (sorry about the rant)

Dmitri
04-13-2005, 03:39 PM
Do I want to kill cats? No (save the two that live in the house). But the Feral Cat issue is rampant and extreme... As for the damage they cause... do you think that the stats on songbirds is something that the government is using JUST to sanction the hunting of cats? So Buford can take potshots at Fluffy? C'mon.

There are still firearms laws that will not let people kill these animals within city limits and such...

biker
04-13-2005, 04:01 PM
LA,
By no means am I attacking you for your opinion. Just trying to get you to see another side of the coin. Now has a person who comes fro ma hunting/farming background, would I hunt cats for fun/food?? nope. no way. would I do it to thin out the feral cats in a area to possibly keep my poultry stock? yes in a heartbeat. I wouldnt get rid of all of them though, got to keep a few for the rats. now has to another comment, you would slam on the brakes to avoid hitting a animal? does that include if you are in traffic? It's better to possibly hurt yourself and the people in the vehicle behind you then a animal.

Not in my book. avoid it if possible yes, but gotta do the risk managment.

lady Amalthea
04-13-2005, 04:06 PM
biker

I guess because I work night shift when I go and come home from work there is virtually no traffic. Yes I have driven off the road before to aviod hitting a dog once. And one time I did hit a raccoon and I cried over it becuase I believe life is sacred, it's just who I am. But since I rarely drive heavy traffic in that instance I guess I would try to avoid an animal than endangering human lives.

Dmitri
04-13-2005, 04:13 PM
LA,

I'm not attacking you but I feel that you are saying that you would do these things cause you feel Life is sacred.

But I hunt, I work leather, I am (for the most part) a strict carnivore, with an emphasis on red meat be it cow, deer or *other*.

Yet I too, find all life to be sacred. it is BECAUSE I feel that all life is sacred that I think the feral cat issue needs to be dealt with. They are a predator introduced to an ecosystem which cannot support them... that is very dangerous and upset the natural order... for ALL LIFE in the ecosystem.

Say you don't like killing cats, that's fine, but just realize that because th cats are there that other animals and their environment are suffering because of it.

lady Amalthea
04-13-2005, 04:17 PM
Maybe I'm just thinking that there is a more humane way to deal with the problems, even killing them can be humane. Unless the hunter is a good shot the animal might suffer, maybe that's what gets me. If they are going to die just let it be quick and not suffer.

arianne
04-13-2005, 06:30 PM
I think the problem people have with this is figuring out *how* these cats are determined to be feral. Anything without a collar? My indoor cars have collars that snap open in case they're caught and would otherwise strangle. Any cat that "doesn't appear friendly"? I don't know all that many cats who can be classified as friendly, per se. Mine certainly wouldn't walk up to someone and would most likely hiss/swipe if someone tried to approach them in a scary situation (like being outside).

I understand the problems feral cats are causing (well, not first-hand, but based on other accounts I've heard), and I do think it needs to be dealt with. I've never encountered a truly feral cat, so I don't know--CAN you tell the difference? If they can be shot from X many feet, what if you just don't see the collar around its neck? That's my only beef with this topic. If I lived in an area where this was being instituted, I'd be damned sure to keep my cats indoors and officially "adopt" any strays I'd been feeding. Is there any difference between feral and stray?

So maybe someone who's been around feral cats can clarify this stuff for those of us who don't know? Is there a visible difference between feral cats and "pet" cats, other than dirt (which is pretty easy to accumulate)? How close do you have to be to shoot it with whatever you're allowed to shoot it with? Is that close enough to tell the difference, or see a collar? Will there be consequences for shooting a non-feral cat (accidentally or otherwise)?

I love and respect and appreciate all life (especially cats), but even I can see the good from this. However, I think a lot of people are convinced that this will lead to irate neighbors shooting Fluffy when she crosses his property line, etc. Finding out that cases like that will be prevented somehow might help change minds more than citing the ecological threats posed by feral cats, yes?

Arianne de la Fleur
Wench #2019

Lady Laurel
04-13-2005, 08:47 PM
Maybe I'm just thinking that there is a more humane way to deal with the problems, even killing them can be humane. Unless the hunter is a good shot the animal might suffer, maybe that's what gets me. If they are going to die just let it be quick and not suffer.

I totally agree with you there should be another way to do this without gun happy people going out there and shooting helpless animals. I was just watching the news and they were interviewing people that live in the area with pets. They are concerned, alot off people are ranchers and such who have barn animals on thier land. They said that the cats keep rodents and such away and they depend on them for this.
Other animal owners are appalled that thier state is going to enforce something like this and most do not believe the song bird problem has anything to do with it.

Now I realize they have a problem but that is why we have the humane society and such to help with these issues. I also know that feral cats can make good house cats ( I have one). I just think they are opening a door to chaos. Lets just give anyone who wants to hurt a animal license to do it.

Branwen
04-13-2005, 11:22 PM
I can see where feral cats can cause a problem in the song bird population in a certain region. I live out in the country in San Antonio. The area that I live has traditionaly been a "dumping" site for unwanted cats and dogs. Recently, we have had a population explosion of stray/feral cats. The dog population has dropped quite a bit. Since most of the cats that are dumped are not spayed or neutered. The first "generation" of abandoned pets are sometimes friendly to people. But, as they begin to breed they begin to fear the humans living in the trailer park & hunt in the surrounding fields. I am bracketed by a ranch, a grass farm, a highway, and a river w/wild plant growth.
I have attempted to keep my own cats strictly indoors. Unfortunately, when they begin to "misbehave" inside the house (i.e. urinating on clothes, furniture. Meowing all night 'cause they can't go out, etc...) I give in. I have ket them out. ALL of my cats have been spayed/neutered. Either when they showed signs of sexual maturity or before I rescued them from a local animal shelter. I have had 2 cats die due to old age. One at the age of 16 the other at the age of 18.5. I have also had one cat either stepped/kicked by an animal & has run away to die. My most recent loss was just this past October when my Smokey Cat left the house & has not returned. He was a friendly cat & would come up to just about anyone as long as you did not appear to be agressive towards him. I know that all my outdoor/indoor cats were mousers (mice, rats, ground squirrels, rabbits, shrews, lizards, toads, frogs etc...). I have never seen one of my cats catch or bring home a bird as a "gift". That of course doesn't mean that they didn't try to hunt birds or catch them. I know for a fact that my Brother's dog will catch birds in mid-flight & kill them. We have also had stray/feral cats that have adopted us. They never really allowed us to pick them up to pet them or try to bring them in the house. They tolerated our existance & allowed us to feed them. Our dodgs DO NOT let any animal in the yard. We have had to clean up many a cat, bird, armadillo, skunk, rabbit, puppy, snake carcass from the yard. I would say that our dogs are more destructive than that of my cats. I have attempted to keep collars on my cats, and unless they are STRICTLY an indoor animal the collars do not stay on the animal.
I don't agree with the idea of shooting feral cats in the area 'cause you just don't know if he/she is a family pet. There are more humane ways of reducing the problem. Spay/neutering the animal, trapping & euthinizing the animal if it can not be tamed or adopted. I don't know how bad that the wild/feral/stray population is in that area so I can't say that the proposal is or will be beneficial. Where I'm at unfortunately the cat population is kept in check by cruel people (physically harming the animal), cars on the highway/trailer park (cats like to sleep on warm motors/tires), rattlesnakes and coyotes and of course disease.

Dimitri & LA,
I too am a carnivore, I like red meat & feel life is sacred. I will try to avoid an animal in the road as long as I don't kill my self or anyone else in the process. But, I have also hit a number of animals 'cause I wasn't able to avoid them safely or didn't see them in time. I have also cried because I have hit & killed an animal. I have seen a number of my pets lost to speeding cars & feel pain each time I am the cause of the death. But, something needs to be done to protect the wilderness from an invasive species that can cause catastophic damage to the ecosystem if not kept in check.

If anyone would like examples:
Cats & rats in Austrialia
Coqui frogs in Hawaii
Feral Pigs through out most of the world
American Grey Squirrel in Britain

There are many more invasive species all over the world that are causing ecological damage. Do a Google search on destructive sepcies, or World's 100 most destructive species.

Sorry, turned into a rant. I'll get off my soap box now. Just my $0.02. Well maybe $0.05. :?

emalia
04-14-2005, 08:28 AM
I haven't had time to read this whole thing, but wouldn't it help the problem immensely if they were to start a sterilization and release program???

Additionally, I too know the problems ferals can cause. I am I sure that shooting them is the answer? No, but neither is poisoning them. Yes, it happens all the time. People put poisoned food out for them to eat.

Eric McTavish
04-14-2005, 09:21 AM
:::update::::

Both the Wisconsin DNR Secretary and Governor Doyle have stated publicly that this whole issue is nothing but an embarassment to the state and they will not pass it (if it even gets that far - this was just a preliminary vote) . A reporter attendede one of the meetings on Monday night and many good points were raised: 1. Cats *can* get out of the house and out of collars , 2. This issue is not one for the DNR and hunters, but should be handled by local government (i.e. city councils, county boards, etc.) , and 3. When it came to killing songbirds the margin of error on the DNR's supporting data was, get this, 93%!!

Branwen
04-14-2005, 09:47 AM
and 3. When it came to killing songbirds the margin of error on the DNR's supporting data was, get this, 93%!!

I was wondering about that myself. I have seen my cats stalking birds and other animals, but have never seen then catch any. My dogs on the other hand have better luck catching birds in mid-flight over the yard. Hopefully, the local government in Wisconsin will find a better way to allievate the problem of stray/feral cats.

(this recent posting broiught to you by one handed typing. Ash Cat was occupying other arm, please forgive any typos) :meow: