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Nevada
06-15-2005, 10:17 AM
ANY THOUGHTS?

Finger-scan systems coming to Carolinas

Watchdogs raise privacy concerns

JEFF ELDER

Staff Writer


Carolinas retailers are pointing the way when it comes to a cutting edge technology. More than 200 stores and restaurants expect to have finger-scan payment systems by next spring.

With the "biometrics" system, you open an account with a retailer by providing identification and banking records, along with a scan of your finger. After that, all you do to pay is place your index finger in a scanner on the store counter and enter an ID code.

You don't need cash, check or plastic.

Some retailers like finger scanning because it can save them money. The systems also speed up checkout lines and make things more convenient for customers.

But civil liberties watchdogs fear the systems give retailers too much personal information. They also say society should not get too accustomed to the idea of scanning human beings.

Two main biometrics companies -- BioPay of Virginia and Pay By Touch of San Francisco -- say the Carolinas are installing finger-pay technology faster than any other part of the country and will soon be at the forefront of transactions.

"In your region over the next year might be where we really, finally find out if it works," says national biometrics expert Jim Wayman, who was the U.S. expert on biometrics for the Clinton administration. "Is the convenience of not having to reach for your wallet really worth providing a little more information about yourself?"

Lowes Foods plans to install BioPay systems in 10 stores in the Charlotte market this summer. By spring 2006, the chain expects the technology to be in all of its 109 stores -- 106 in North Carolina, said Lowes spokeswoman Diane Blancato.

About 50 other Charlotte-area stores representing 26 retail brands have recently installed BioPay systems or will soon, a spokeswoman said. The retailers include Jersey Mike's Subs, Moe's Southwest Grill and Roly Poly Sandwiches.

BioPay rival Pay By Touch has just finished installing systems in all 82 Piggly Wiggly-owned grocery stores across South Carolina and Georgia. The Charleston-based retailer began trying the system in four S.C. stores last summer and found customers liked it, and stores saved slightly on transactions, said Piggly Wiggly spokeswoman Rita Postell.

She said the company was pleased that 15 percent to 20 percent of the stores' transactions involve the finger scan technology, and there have been no cases of fraud.

BioPay asks consumers to provide driver's license information and a canceled check. BioPay then draws money from a checking account.

Pay By Touch says it provides a "full wallet" -- you can draw money from your checking account, credit card accounts, or by using the system like an ATM. This also means you provide more personal information.

Finger-scanning transactions that draw from checking accounts can save retailers money. They require lower fees from retailers than plastic transactions -- or finger scan transactions that use credit accounts.

Peter Glunt, owner of the Dilworth Coffee House at Quail Corners Shopping Center in south Charlotte, says his BioPay system costs him a nickel per typical transaction. Bank card transactions can cost him up to 20 cents apiece.

Both companies have installed systems elsewhere, and systems are going up across the U.S. BioPay systems are in use in Northern California, Texas and Virginia. Pay By Touch systems are running in Seattle, Chicago, the Twin Cities and other places.

But both companies agree that, because of the Lowes and Piggly Wiggly accounts, the Carolinas are poised to be major sites for the technology.

"You are about to become the largest concentration of biometric merchants in the world," says BioPay President Tim Robinson.

"Right now the Carolinas is leading the way," says Caroline McNally, chief marketing officer of Pay By Touch.

National expert Wayman, now a biometrics researcher at San Jose State University in California, says he doubts adding a scan of your finger to the information that merchants already know about you really opens you up to much greater fraud risk. "But consumers should always be wary of that. The less information you provide, the better."

He's interested to see whether finger scanning catches on.

Alex Stokas is a regular at Dilworth Coffee House at Quail Corners -- he calls it "the best coffeehouse around." But he hasn't given his friend, owner Glunt, his finger-scans for use in the store's system.

"I don't like the whole idea," Stokas says. "Maybe later. I'll let it prove itself first. This might be a thing where, it's just a matter of time."

Bean
06-15-2005, 10:34 AM
I was just in Virginia and the gas station I stopped at had this finger scanning system. I think it's a neat idea, and for a person like me who doesn't carry cash it could make my life easier. Having worked in a bank, and when people lose their debit card and have to wait 10-14 days for a replacement, this could be an advantage for them. I can't tell you how many people think that if you lose your card, you just go to a teller and they give you another one!! "What do you mean I can't have my new card? I'm sorry, we don't make them here, they are made in Texas. How am I supposed to get money until then? Well, sir, you just come to me and write out a check, and I'll give you money."

If you have a credit account with a store, most likely they already have more information on you than you think. I remember when our local Giant Eagle grocery store was putting in self checkout scanners. People didn't think they would be popular, but they have lines almost as long as the manned checkouts! I think people in general will balk at anything new until it's proven to them that:
1.) it works right
2.) it won't hurt them
3.) it really will make your life easier

I would love to be in a state that has these bioscans; it would be nifty to try them out!!

erinrai
06-15-2005, 10:37 AM
I don't like it. To me it seems that big companies are helping further us towards being accepting of a "big brother" like atmosphere. It is definitely not for me.

Artemisia
06-15-2005, 11:18 AM
Credit card activity will always tell Big Brother generally where you are. Also EZ PASS (NY,NJ,CT...) is Big Brother. If Big Brother wants to find you, he will. I don't have too much of a problem with it, though I know that somewhere along the line someone will take advantage of it. On a religious note, I also wonder how Christians see this in context to the "mark of the Beast on the hand".

Anywho, they can really convince me to use it if I'm allowed to use my middle finger! :twisted:

Alianne
06-15-2005, 12:22 PM
It also might be a deterrent against identity theft -- or at least, someone trying to use a stolen credit card or atm card.....they can get my PIN, but they can't take my finger.....

Eric McTavish
06-15-2005, 12:51 PM
It also might be a deterrent against identity theft -- or at least, someone trying to use a stolen credit card or atm card.....they can get my PIN, but they can't take my finger.....

do you want to bet on that??? :shock:

Ysobelle
06-15-2005, 01:11 PM
How is it substantially different from using a bank card? A bank card has all my info-- accounts, name, address, etc. If you really don't want to be found-- like my Psycho Nazi Ex-- just carry cash.

Myfanawy
06-15-2005, 01:16 PM
Kind of reminds me of the movie Gattaca (except in that they pricked your finger & took a blood sample--ow.)
--M

I'Cin
06-15-2005, 02:46 PM
While not quite the same, my company uses a fingerprint bioscan for us peons to sign in and out. It keeps track of what hours I work, or not, and my vacation/sick/floating days, etc. Sort of nifty but I'm not sure how I feel about paying for stuff like that.

Overall, I think I'm okay with it. It sounds like it doesn't link directly to your bank account. One of the gas stations, I think Exxon, has a "speed pass" that you put money in the "account" from a credit card, or checking account if you want, and then you just swipe the little electric gadget on your key ring.

There is also an online service here in DC that some restaurants use that sounds like it might be similar: I put money into an account, then I order my food online through iWaitless.com and a few minutes later I walk over and pick it up. Its already paid for and I don't have to stand in any lines.

I'Cin

Lady Laurel
06-15-2005, 03:14 PM
On a religious note, I also wonder how Christians see this in context to the "mark of the Beast on the hand".

Funny that was the first thing that I thought off. I don't know if I like it or not still debating on it.

Captain Stamina
06-15-2005, 03:55 PM
I know it’s the wave of the future, but I just don’t like the idea of giving any company the access to removing money from any of my accounts. There’s the uneasy feeling of someone punching in the wrong key or misplacing the decimal point the wrong way to warrent this.

Psyche
06-15-2005, 04:51 PM
I am still the type to prefer cash.

This new system just seems odd to me.

Jessa
06-15-2005, 04:55 PM
I know it’s the wave of the future, but I just don’t like the idea of giving any company the access to removing money from any of my accounts. There’s the uneasy feeling of someone punching in the wrong key or misplacing the decimal point the wrong way to warrent this.
Once they have your name and credit card number, they can already do this. There's really nothing but trust preventing a business that keeps your credit card on file (most online retailers, and many brick and mortar stores) from abusing it.

As for stealing your finger, its already been done. And I'm not talking about the Wendy's chili incendent. People have managed to fool finger print scanners using things like silly pudy and jello to create fake thumbs. A similar techinique could be used with a more stable media like latex. Fake latex thumbprints could be made vary thin, and using existing makeup techniques, fitted over the theif's thumb to look real upon casual inspection.

Alianne
06-15-2005, 10:56 PM
It also might be a deterrent against identity theft -- or at least, someone trying to use a stolen credit card or atm card.....they can get my PIN, but they can't take my finger.....

do you want to bet on that??? :shock:

Well, there's *one* finger thieves can *borrow*...but it's staying attached to my hand. :twisted:

Myfanawy
06-16-2005, 01:47 AM
One big advantage to cash--the faire vendors usually won't charge you tax if you give 'em cash. Works out well for everyone!
--M

Alianne
06-16-2005, 11:51 AM
One big advantage to cash--the faire vendors usually won't charge you tax if you give 'em cash. Works out well for everyone!
--M

That really depends on the vendor and the state in which they're operating and the state's reporting requirements on taxes.

A lot of vendors will either give a small discount for cash or charge a small % for using plastic (because they get charged)....but not necessarily not charge tax (even though it might end up about the same % overall).

Jeannie Fitzgerald
07-02-2005, 11:06 AM
I prefer cash to plastic af festivals because some vendors wait until the end of the run before running their credit/debit charges. I prefer the amount deducted from my account immediately or very soon afterwards so I don't have to keep track of what charges are out there.

As far as faking fingerprints, etc., it doesn't matter what kind of mechanical method of payment one has, be it plastic, fingerprints, retinal scans, etc., someone will come up with a way of faking it. Now fingerprints in conjuction with a PIN is another story. As long as one does not give out their pin number, a fingerprint would actually be more secure than plastic. PIN numbers are encoded on debit cards. A sharp technoweenie could figure out how to read that pin from a stolen or lost card (assuming it hasn't been already done) then proceed to drain the account. Granted, cashregisters are nothing but highly specialized computers anymore and anyone could install a keystroke recording program on one but most register programs supposedly guard against that so it's highly improbable it will happen

Speaking of PIN numbers...I work retail. I am constantly amazed at the number of people who are willing to tell me their PIN numbers when doing transactions through a window late at night when we don't have a keypad available. I have to stop them from giving me their number and explain that by giving anyone their PIN, they could clean out their accounts in nothing flat. I also won't let them give me the numbers because then they could clean out the accounts themselves and blame me for it.

Morgana
07-02-2005, 07:12 PM
Alianne wrote

Well , there's * one * finger thieves can * borrow * . . . but it's staying attached to my hand :twisted:
I prefer the English * two finger * method :wink: :lol: !