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MaidenFaeSnow
07-13-2005, 11:15 AM
OMG!! And I'm a Computer Trainer :shock:


First IM going to tell you a little about me and my family. My name is Jeff. I am a Police Officer for a city which is known nationwide for its crime rate. We have a lot of gangs and drugs. At one point we were # 2 in the nation in homicides per capita. I also have a police K-9 named Thor. He was certified in drugs and general duty. He retired at 3 years old because he was shot in the line of duty. He lives with us now and I still train with him because he likes it. I always liked the fact that there was no way to bring drugs into my house. Thor wouldn't allow it. He would tell on you. The reason I say this is so you understand that I know about drugs. I have taught in schools about drugs. My wife asks all our kids at least once a week if they used any drugs. Makes them promise they wont.

I like building computers occasionally and started building a new one in February 2005. I also was working on some of my older computers. They were full of dust so on one of my trips to the computer store I bought a 3 pack of DUST OFF. Dust Off is a can of compressed air to blow dust off a computer. A few weeks later when I went to use them they were all used. I talked to my kids and my 2 sons both said they had used them on their computer and messing around with them. I yelled at them for wasting the 10 dollars I paid for them. On February 28 I went back to the computer store. They didn't have the 3 pack which I had bought on sale so I bought a single jumbo can of Dust Off. I went home and set it down beside my computer.

On March 1st I left for work at 10 PM. At 11 PM my wife went down and kissed Kyle goodnight. At 530 am the next morning Kathy went downstairs to wake Kyle up for school, before she left for work. He was sitting up in bed with his legs crossed and his head leaning over. She called to him a few times to get up. He didn't move. He would sometimes tease her like this and pretend he fell back asleep. He was never easy to get up. She went in and shook his arm. He fell over. He was pale white and had the straw from the Dust Off can coming out of his mouth. He had the new can of Dust Off in his hands. Kyle was dead.

I am a police officer and I had never heard of this. My wife is a nurse and she had never heard of this. We later found out from the coroner, after the autopsy, that only the propellant from the can of Dust off was in his system. No other drugs. Kyle had died between midnight and 1 Am.

I found out that using Dust Off is being done mostly by kids ages 9 through 15. They even have a name for it. It's called dusting. A take off from the Dust Off name. It gives them a slight high for about 10 seconds. It makes them dizzy. A boy who lives down the street from us showed Kyle how to do this about a month before. Kyle showed his best friend. Told him it was cool and it couldn't hurt you. Its just compressed air. It cant hurt you. His best friend said no.

Kyle's death

Kyle was wrong. It's not just compressed air. It also contains a propellant. I think its R2. Its a refrigerant like what is used in your refrigerator. It is a heavy gas. Heavier than air. When you inhale it, it fills your lungs and keeps the good air, with oxygen, out. That's why you feel dizzy, buzzed. It decreases the oxygen to your brain, to your heart. Kyle was right. It cant hurt you. IT KILLS YOU. The horrible part about this is there is no warning. There is no level that kills you. It's not cumulative or an overdose; it can just go randomly, terribly wrong. Roll the dice and if your number comes up you die. ITS NOT AN OVERDOSE. Its Russian roulette. You don't die later. Or not feel good and say I've had too much. You usually die as your breathing it in. If not you die within 2 seconds of finishing "the hit." That's why the straw was still in Kyle's mouth when he died. Why his eye's were still open.

The experts want to call this huffing. The kids don't believe its huffing. As adults we tend to lump many things together. But it doesn't fit here. And that's why its more accepted. There is no chemical reaction. no strong odor. It doesn't follow the huffing signals. Kyle complained a few days before he died of his tongue hurting. It probably did. The propellant causes frostbite. If I had only known.

Its easy to say hay, its my life and I'll do what I want. But it isn't. Others are always effected. This has forever changed our family's life. I have a hole in my heart and soul that can never be fixed. The pain is so immense I cant describe it. There's nowhere to run from it. I cry all the time and I don't ever cry. I do what I'm supposed to do but I don't really care. My kids are messed up. One wont talk about it. The other will only sleep in our room at night. And my wife, I cant even describe how bad she is taking this. I thought we were safe because of Thor. I thought we were safe because we knew about drugs and talked to our kids about them.

After Kyle died another story came out. A Probation Officer went to the school system next to ours to speak with a student. While there he found a student using Dust Off in the bathroom. This student told him about another student who also had some in his locker. This is a rather affluent school system. They will tell you they don't have a drug problem there. They don't even have a dare or plus program there. So rather than tell everyone about this "new" way of getting high they found, they hid it. The probation officer told the media after Kyle's death and they, the school, then admitted to it. I know that if they would have told the media and I had heard, it wouldn't have been in my house.

We need to get this out of our homes and school computer labs.

Using Dust Off isn't new and some "professionals" do know about. It just isn't talked about much, except by the kids. They know about it.

April 2nd was 1 month since Kyle died. April 5th would have been his 15th birthday. And every weekday I catch myself sitting on the living room couch at 2:30 in the afternoon and waiting to see him get off the bus. I know Kyle is in heaven but I cant help but wonder If I died and went to Hell.

Jeff

Verified at Snopes.com

http://www.snopes.com/toxins/dustoff.asp

Ysobelle
07-13-2005, 12:23 PM
Huffing, glue-sniffing-- these aren't new things. A good friend of mine went to Romania a few years ago and did a heart-wrenchingly gritty photodocumentary about the kids who lived in the sewers there. They spent much of their days getting high that way. I had a roommate who used up all the cans if Redi-Whip in the house huffing the gas out of the cans.

Some kids--- hell, some people-- will do anything for a thrill. No matter what it winds up doing to them.

MaidenFaeSnow
07-13-2005, 12:35 PM
Yes, except this isn't technically huffing. There is NO chemical reaction like there is with huffing and glue sniffing. This doesn't kill over a period of time. This kills instantly.

Ysobelle
07-13-2005, 01:23 PM
It's getting high off fumes. It's stupid and it's horrible and it's pointless, but it's not just Dust-Off.

I feel horrible for the family, though.

Lady Laurel
07-13-2005, 01:23 PM
This is so awful. I copied this and sent it to my friends. Especially the ones with kids. It gave me chills when I read it.

Wolves Lady
07-13-2005, 01:35 PM
This is scary stuff. As I kid I remember giggling over the use of dry erase markers making us woozy (no deliberate inhaling, just writing with the darn things on the boards at school). Most of us hated that feeling (it made us nauseated), but I remember the "class clowns" acting silly after using them and sniffing them. I could see where a kid could get in trouble rather quickly, or think of it as innocent silliness.

I asked my daughter out of curiousity if this was covered under her schools DARE program, she said no. I am surprised the schools don't go into it more.

I think I may let my daughters school know about the program offered by inhalants.org - it is an interesting site to go to, since it gives a lot of stats on it - there are some scary stats there!

ambar
07-13-2005, 01:38 PM
This is scary stuff. As I kid I remember giggling over the use of dry erase markers making us woozy (no deliberate inhaling, just writing with the darn things on the boards at school). Most of us hated that feeling (it made us nauseated), but I remember the "class clowns" acting silly after using them and sniffing them. I could see where a kid could get in trouble rather quickly, or think of it as innocent silliness.

Or the helium ballons.

Ysobelle
07-13-2005, 01:49 PM
But don't get alarmist about just this one product. It's one of many.

MaidenFaeSnow
07-13-2005, 02:00 PM
But don't get alarmist about just this one product. It's one of many.

It IS one of many. I just think it's probably one that is going to suprise many people. One they many not have otherwise thought of. This one affects very differently than the others which is why I posted it. It is on the High Threat list with my company (we are an organization that works in cooperation with the DEA) because it can kill in a matter of seconds with FIRST use, unlike other Huff inhalents that normally kill after several to many uses. (Note: I said normally and I do not represent myself as a professional.)

Lumping it in with the many others does not take away from it's potential danger as a stand-alone dangerous and potentially fatal substance if abused. The fact that it is being used by such a young group of users is also another alarming factor (9-15 yr olds.)

I think we all NEED to get alarmist about these things to a point, especially those of us with kids.... Maybe that's what this country is missing. Too many people having a lacksidasical attitude towards drug abuse and not caring about what our children are doing when they are not in view, so long as they are 'bothering' us. Just MHO.

Myfanawy
07-13-2005, 03:31 PM
Or the helium ballons.

Actually, it's not helium--all that'll do is make your voice higher. You're thinking of nitrous oxide--most head shops sell whippets (those little things you charge canisters of whipped cream with, we have 'em at work.) I'll admit to you now that in the past, I did a fair amount of nitrous. The whippets got expensive, but one summer a friend of a friend visited. He worked for a catering business, and he brought 2 HUGE tanks of N20 out with him. We did WAY too much nitrous that summer...I don't want to think about how many brain cells I killed (but at least I still have the capacity to do so...thank goodness.) The high you get from that is pretty intense (especially if you're a musician and have some Stravinsky playing)...now, I'm not advocating it or anything, but it's probably not AS bad for you as huffing or dusting. But it's still not good, and though I have access to dozens of boxes of whippets at work, I just don't have the desire to go there anymore. I did some stupid stuff as an undergrad, and I'm past that time in my life. Been there, done that. I'd heard a lot about huffing in high school, but I NEVER wanted to try that--it sounded pretty damn stupid to me. Dry erase markers....yeah, we joked around with those in jr high (and you know you've been in college too long when you start joking about them again in your music history class in grad school!)

One thing though, about the nitrous--you ARE breathing back and forth into a balloon, and depriving your brain of fresh oxygen for a period of time.

Of course, helium's just good for a giggle!
-M

daBaroness
07-13-2005, 03:47 PM
Back when I was in college and disco was the craze, especially in the gay bars and clubs, we did what was called "poppers." Amiyl nitrates actually. They came in small bottles and we'd just hold one nostrel while sniffing the fumes about an inch above the bottle. It gave you an instant and rather brief buzz and you always saw people doing them on the dance floor. Some people's face would flush to the point it looked like they were going to explode. I think we knew the buzz was brain cells dying, but at that age and during that time, we didn't think about it too much.

I admit to doing a limited amount of poppers, along with smoking some weed - it was kind of my generation's thing. My partying stage was short-lived - I just didn't feel comfortable when I felt out of control. I'm not even really much of a drinker - just an occasional foo-foo drink. I still give the same answer I did 30 years ago when I'm asked why I don't drink or get high - I just tell 'em God already blessed me by making me naturally strange and crazy - I don't need to spend money to get there! :lol:

Myfanawy
07-13-2005, 04:13 PM
Working at Starbucks, I'm coming to see that they're one of the biggest drug dealers in the world...there are regulars who are there every day for hours on end, always drinking their specific drink (quad venti mocha/steamed to 180/2 Splenda/no foam)...well, at least coffee tastes good.

Sorry, don't want to make light of the situation, but it's true....
--M

Lady Laurel
07-13-2005, 04:56 PM
Working at Starbucks, I'm coming to see that they're one of the biggest drug dealers in the world...there are regulars who are there every day for hours on end, always drinking their specific drink (quad venti mocha/steamed to 180/2 Splenda/no foam)...well, at least coffee tastes good

Yep thats me but not every day. Carmal macchiato is my drug of choice. :wink:

Myfanawy
07-13-2005, 05:09 PM
Yep thats me but not every day. Carmal macchiato is my drug of choice. :wink:

Good lord, those are tasty! You ever try one iced? :yum: (Great when it's 109 degrees here in the middle of the desert...)
--M

Jessa
07-13-2005, 05:39 PM
The lesson here not that we need to stop keeping canned air in our homes, or get worried about each specific new consumer product that can potentially be misused. Its that we need to be teaching kids more common sense.

Its sounds like Kyle's dad did a good job keeping him away from drugs and teaching him that they were dangerous. Explaining the risks and making it clear that something is not OK to do clearly work.

ANYTHING that gives you a "buzz" is causing you harm. Nausia and disorientation are like pain - they are signals that something is going wrong. We need to teach kids to listen to those signals. They don't need to memorize a list of all the substances they shouldn't be using, because new ones will always be found. They need to learn how to figure out for themselves when something has all the signs of being dangerous so they can avoid whatever dangers come their way.

MaidenFaeSnow
07-13-2005, 07:15 PM
Bravo Jessa. Buzz does not equal good. Buzz equals dead, whether it be brain cells or you!

Lady Longfellow
07-17-2005, 11:31 AM
A couple of years ago I was alarmed when I received a school supply list from my daughter’s teacher that specified that rubber cement ONLY was to be used on class projects because it was easier to clean up and didn’t cause pictures and the like to “ripple” like regular glue. I promptly spoke to her the next day and told her NO – rubber cement gets me sick just opening the bottle – with 30-35 kids in that class with 30-35 bottles of cement they’d all be high!

“I have something for you,” I tell her, and I handed an Elmer’s glue slick over to her. She sent a note home that day with class stating, “Due to a parental complaint…” You’re dang spanky!

Oh, I agree – those dry erase are the best – we use them at the college – and the dry erase whipes used to clean the boards are noxious as death – blah!

Sisters, we live in a society (Western culture in general) that deeply encourages monetary and material gain and bases the value of a human being on his or her stock portfolio. Studies clearly show the more involved you are with your children, the less likely they are to do drugs and engage in other risky behavior. Our current socio-economic expectations contradicts the latter fact, illustrated in our “keeping-up-with-the-Joneses” mentality – 67% of all two income families (where both partners are full-time workers) can live reasonably on one income. Most two-income families are middle class, most adolescent/teen drug use is middle class, and most drug related deaths are middle class. This leads me to this point…

This fellow is a K-9 drug cop – Sisters, I must be missing something here, but either this fellow is full of crap or he’s been smacked with a stupid stick. I know I am being critical – but let’s reason here: his profession is in a special enforcement area where he has been trained in every area dealing with drug detection, including early warning signs of drug use and what the drug may be – not to mention he is required by the department to remain current on all new and emerging drug trends. Think to yourselves for a moment – these canisters were just bought (even at Wally World you have to be 18 to purchase this stuff – and he would know why – he’s a DRUG COP!), the canisters were ALL EMPTY when he went to use them (wouldn’t he have noticed that the shrink wrap around the cans were torn off and blow-straw inserted?) – these latter elements never gave him a clue that one of his children was using? Ridiculous! :hmm:

It’s like telling me that a well trained medical assistant or nurse wouldn’t suspect or recognize the signs of a stroke or heart attack. We all bring elements of our professions home and even utilize our professional knowledge outside of work.

With all of this said – and boy was it a lot – my suspicions towards this fellow’s intentions does not in the least diminish the regret and sympathy I have for his family – how devastating a reality like this should even exist. If he is sincere, I can only image the blame and grief he and his wife struggle with every day. I appreciate that we are so humanity-centered, and that we so care enough to share, comfort, and inform one another on the forum.

MaidenFaeSnow
07-17-2005, 01:01 PM
This fellow is a K-9 drug cop – Sisters, I must be missing something here, but either this fellow is full of crap or he’s been smacked with a stupid stick. I know I am being critical – but let’s reason here: his profession is in a special enforcement area where he has been trained in every area dealing with drug detection, including early warning signs of drug use and what the drug may be – not to mention he is required by the department to remain current on all new and emerging drug trends. Think to yourselves for a moment – these canisters were just bought (even at Wally World you have to be 18 to purchase this stuff – and he would know why – he’s a DRUG COP!), the canisters were ALL EMPTY when he went to use them (wouldn’t he have noticed that the shrink wrap around the cans were torn off and blow-straw inserted?) – these latter elements never gave him a clue that one of his children was using?

Ummm....I just have to comment here. You DON'T have to be 18 to buy Dust OFF (or like products) at Wal-Mart. If that IS there policy (and I am currently checking that out) it is not being enforced (in my area anyway as my then 16 yr old bought some for her grandfather for his new pc at xmas.) Hinesight was the only thing this officer was left with as with many of us. Who hasn't had a situation when hindsight suddenly smaked us in the face...hard?!

Yes, he was trained, however new ways to get high pop up everyday (believe me I see and read the reports) but it is virtually impossible to catch ALL of them BEFORE they happen. Yes, 3 cans were bought and when he confronted his kids they said they used and played with them. He brought his kids up right and knowledgeable about drugs, he trusted them. He moved on. I don't believe any of this makes him stupid. I believe it makes him a father who thought he had don't well raising his kids. Unfortunately, fate handed him a different card and now we learn a lesson from his story.

Cyranno DeBoberac
07-17-2005, 03:50 PM
From the snopes writeup:


...cans of Dust Off bear a label cautioning users against misuse of the product and carry this warning in large red block letters: "Inhalant abuse is illegal and can cause permanent injury or be fatal. Please use our product responsibly."

Am I the only person thinking this is just a case of Natural Selection doing it's job?

Yes, it's sad and tragic and I sympathize for the boy's parents, but "too stupid to live" is not a completely unjustified concept.

Jeannie Fitzgerald
07-17-2005, 03:52 PM
Regulations regarding the purchase of inhalant bearing products vary from state to state, county to county and even city to city. And even though Wally World hints at being a Christian company, the bottom line is the bottom line. If they can sell it without looking bad, they will.

White Out, paint, nitrous from whipped cream, and lighter fluid were the popular inhalants when my kids were growing up during the eighties. When I was in grade school, the popular thing to do was have some big guy do a bear hug from behind across your chest so you couldn't breathe until you passed out. When released, you would fall to the ground spasmadically flopping about; a true spaz attack. Thank God I never could see the sense in it so never let anyone try it on me.

Sexual enhancement by oxygen derivation has been around since before I was a kid (and that goes back around half a century).

Jeannie Fitzgerald
07-17-2005, 04:06 PM
This fellow is a K-9 drug cop – Sisters, I must be missing something here, but either this fellow is full of crap or he’s been smacked with a stupid stick. I know I am being critical – but let’s reason here: his profession is in a special enforcement area where he has been trained in every area dealing with drug detection, including early warning signs of drug use and what the drug may be – not to mention he is required by the department to remain current on all new and emerging drug trends.

I read that with a jaundiced eye myself. ANY cop should have smelled a furry rodent. I'm no cop - I don't even think like one - yet I would have been really suspicious if my kids suddenly used up all of a product they really had no need to use so much of, if at all. And my ex and I wouldn't have bought ant more until we got satisfactory answers.

Ysobelle
07-17-2005, 04:45 PM
Bob, be nice. ALL kids do stupid things for thrills. And they NEVER thnk it's actually going to kill them. And all parents think, "This'll never happen to MY kids." Maybe even more so when they're sure they've done a better-than-average job of educating their kids about drugs.

No one ever goes around before the event thinking, "I'm astonishingly stupid. I have to be extra careful!" If they did, well...I know I would've kicked my closet-Nazi ex-boyfriend's ass to the curb a lot sooner.

Lady Longfellow
07-17-2005, 05:01 PM
I read that with a jaundiced eye myself. ANY cop should have smelled a furry rodent. I'm no cop - I don't even think like one - yet I would have been really suspicious if my kids suddenly used up all of a product they really had no need to use so much of, if at all. And my ex and I wouldn't have bought ant more until we got satisfactory answers."]

Right, Jeannie - my point exactly! I agree that tragedies do occur and sometimes under the strangest or most ironic circumstances, but this story just doesn’t set right with me. My objective in expressing my view point is not to be hateful or to diminish the tragedy, but to point out something is wrong with his story…

I live in the greater Dayton area – the Wal-Mart, K-Mart, and Lowe’s stores DO ID, here, for any inhalant – my 16 year old cannot even buy model glue without me with her. My husband and I were at Wally World last night and, YES, we bought a can of air duster – he was carded - they now slide your driver's license through the card reader to capture your information…

Cyranno DeBoberac
07-17-2005, 06:18 PM
Bob, be nice. ALL kids do stupid things for thrills. And they NEVER thnk it's actually going to kill them.
In this particular case, there was a label on the can with large red block lettering that pretty much stated, "Hey, this is going to kill you". Unless I missed the part of the story that said the boy was either blind or illiterate, this goes slightly beyond childish and stupid.

But I accept your point in general.

Ysobelle
07-17-2005, 06:45 PM
Yeah, but what 14-year-old actually thinks it really WILL kill him? It's always, "Oh, they're just saying that shit to cover their asses. It won't hurt ME."

But thanks.

Cyranno DeBoberac
07-17-2005, 07:47 PM
Yeah, but what 14-year-old actually thinks it really WILL kill him? It's always, "Oh, they're just saying that shit to cover their asses. It won't hurt ME."

Which, tangentially, is why I'm so nonplussed by the avalanche of silly warning labels out there (like "do not operate toaster in bathtub") because it makes people take the real warning labels too lightly.

daBaroness
07-17-2005, 07:52 PM
Yanno - I just have to say it - several of these responses seem pretty damned self-righteous to me. One BIG lesson I've learned is to exclude the word "never" from my vocabulary, especially where childrearing is concerned. If you don't have kids - you're certainly free to have opinions, but to judge a parent or to label a child's death as genetic stupidity or natural selection is just plain cruel and ignorant, not funny.

I'm preaching to myself here, too. I used to bag on other parents - especially those of teen-agers for their ignorance of what their kids were doing or the stupid and sometimes tragic choices their kids were making. I figured because I had young children who were doing well, were smart and well-behaved, I had a right to hold other parents to task for not being attentive, caring, involved parents. Well, I should have shut the hell up until I'd walked a mile in their shoes.

I'm an average, middle-class parent, taxpayer, law-abiding citizen. I made a decision long ago that until my children were grown and on their own, I would put parts of my own life on hold - things like dating or putting something I wanted to do ahead of something they needed to do. I didn't want to be like so many single mothers I'd seen - so desperate to find a man their front doors resembled the revolving door of a whorehouse. Mothers who'd leave their kids with a sitter night after night so they could have fun. Mothers who didn't help their kids study, or bother getting them involved in sports, or scouts, or the 50 million other activities kids like to participate in. I've gone to so many baseball practices I could freakin' coach a team. If I went out - my sons were usually with me, if not my "dates."

But all of my attention and good intentions, all of my checking and rechecking, all of my concern didn't stop my oldest son from basically living a double life while he was in high school. While I was constantly involved with his teachers because he has ADHD, he was spending his free time partying. Because he'd always been such a good-natured, and thoughtful child, I had no reason to believe the explanations he gave for things were anything but the truth. And because I'd always been so involved, it didn't dawn on me that he was running a very calculated scam on me. In the few instances that gave me pause - it made sense to chalk it up to his ADHD. No one around us imagined that he was one of the biggest potheads in his school and when my own mother suggested one time that he "might be doing drugs" I dismissed it as him just being a teenager, his ADHD and the fact that my mother can sometimes be an overly-dramatic alarmist.

The biggest shock of my life came one night in January 2002. I'd actually returned from a very rare night out - the 50th birthday party of one of my faire performer friends. I made it an early night - home before 1 a.m. and my younger son was with his dad. About 4 a.m. I got a call from my son - he'd been arrested and wanted to be bailed out. I was stunned, shocked, horrified and PISSED OFF! I called my younger son's dad and he met me at the police station as I was introduced to the wrong side of the legal system and the operating procedures of a bail bondsman.

Fast forward to last week ... prior to the first time Cameron was arrested he'd taken the military entrance test and was planning to go to boot camp prior to his senior year on a special program. He scored high on his test and was set to begin his enlistment. Last week he was finally inducted and leaves July 27 for Fort Sill for boot camp. In the interim he's been arrested about eight times on charges ranging from bogus ones based on his age and race (he's biracial and we live in a very redneck county) that were dropped to very serious ones like tampering (his "friend" was stealing the wheels and tires off a car while he watched) to intent to sell and possession (again, association with a "friend" and lack of good judgement). He's been to jail, to court, through multiple probations, done community service, drug aversion classes. He's responsible for us being evicted from the co-op where we lived for nearly 12 years, for me losing two different jobs (because I had to take too much time to deal with his legal issues) and broken the hearts of his grandparents, his brother and me. He lost friends and self-respect. BUT ...

Through it all, although there were times I wanted to rip his face off and beat him into the ground - I never gave up on him. I knew to the core of my being that I had instilled good values into him. I knew he could make better choices. I knew he could overcome his ADHD. I knew he could succeed and thrive. I knew I had to continue to believe in him, even if I didn't always trust him. I knew the bad choices he was making were more a product of his age, immaturity and ADHD than of his character. And I prayed that despite his stupid, thoughtless choices, he'd be safe from harm.

The night last week he came home after completing his enlistment in the Army, after having taken his oath and finding out he'd be leaving July 27 - the first step on his journey to being a real adult - he thanked me for never giving up. He promised he'd make me proud (he already has) and he said, "I guess I've got a really good guardian angel." Amen to that!!! I told him I long ago decided he's like the Martina McBride song - "Wild Angels" - because only a wild angel could keep up with him and keep him safe.

I've related all of this to remind anyone and everyone who would be quick to judge - that life is precious. And that even the most well-intentioned, vigilant parent's life can be shattered by one careless choice by their child. I was always considered a goody two-shoes, but I made choices in my childhood and teen years that were not only stupid, but to this day, I would be utterly horrified if my parents knew. I wasn't a party animal by any stretch of the imagination, but I got ugly drunk on four occasions in my life - only two my folks ever knew about - and certainly not the full story. I smoked dope with my friends; I drove high; I slept with a few too many guys I didn't really know for all the wrong reasons. Any of those choices could have yielded tragic results - but for the grace of my own wild angels and G-d.

I don't know of a single person who hasn't made stupid choices. Preacher's kids or pusher's kids - we've all tempted fate at one time or another. Whenever I hear about a tragedy like the one that prompted this thread, I literally get down on my knees and thank the universe that for today, I and my children are safe. And I ask for comfort and solace for the families and loved ones whose lives are changed in a nanosecond. There for the grace of the higher power ...

I'll leave any of you who would be quick to judge with some last thoughts - one of my favorite quotes is, "to know better is not always sufficient to do better" ... sometimes we're too close to a situation to objectively see it. But I also believe many of us learn a lot from past mistakes (when we know better, we do better). I know I do my best to do better, every single day - and one thing I definitely do better is having compassion for others.

MaidenFaeSnow
07-17-2005, 08:33 PM
Bob, be nice. ALL kids do stupid things for thrills. And they NEVER thnk it's actually going to kill them.
In this particular case, there was a label on the can with large red block lettering that pretty much stated, "Hey, this is going to kill you". Unless I missed the part of the story that said the boy was either blind or illiterate, this goes slightly beyond childish and stupid.

But I accept your point in general.

At the time, there was not yet a warning label on the can.

Also, at the time, this product was not know to be used as an inhalant.

MaidenFaeSnow
07-17-2005, 08:44 PM
daBaroness,

Thank you for your reply. Sometimes when someone relates a helpful piece of information to me that could potentially protect the health of my children, I just say "thank you" and move on....without needing or wanting to question the movtives of the person behind the story.

Take the info for what it is, learn from it. Whether you agree with the man in the news story or not, whether you think he was naive or not, whether you know of other inhalents or not. Now you know of one more. So far, the only warning sign of this one is a painful tongue. Know that THIS ONE kills in seconds. Know that this is not using a chemical reaction to kill.

Take that info and just remember it. That's all.

Jeannie Fitzgerald
07-18-2005, 02:27 AM
My comments about the cop were meant to question the validity of the story, not put down the parents of children who hid their substance abuse from them. Even the dumbest (yeah, I know, wrong use of the word, but you get my drift) cop I ever met (fortunately, the majority of cops are actually quite bright; I meet quite a few in my line of work) would be brighter than the one in the story, hence my skepticsm. I apologise if anyone thought I was putting them down; I wasn't.

I certainly can empathize with daBaroness. My son was good at pulling the wool over our eyes. He's pushing 30 now with two children of his own, yet I still cringe when I hear someone saying, "Trust me." (Bart Simpsonlike shudder)