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Gellis Indigo
09-16-2009, 08:11 PM
Acorn has had quite a time of it in the past month or so, what with the voter fraud situation (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5ZxJgjHzO_C-1f0H0FHImQwjR2gD9AJTJ1G0) and the U.S. Census Bureau (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32806131/ns/politics-more_politics/) cutting ties with them. And then there’s the little issue of the videos that have come out showing Acorn employees advising a young couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/16/us/politics/16acorn.html?hp) on how to apply for a loan to get a house in which to run their brothel. And not only were they told, in 4 different instances (Baltimore (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/10/chaos-for-glory/), New York City (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/14/acorn-video-prostitution-scandal-in-new-york-ny/), Washington, D.C., (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/11/washington-dc-acorn-video-child-prostitution-investigation/) and San Bernadino (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/15/acorn-prostitution-scandal-california-here-we-come/), with a 5th tape set to come out tonight involving San Diego), how to lie to obtain the home loan, but also how to claim the 13 to 15 year olds, that they confessed to be bringing into the country from El Salvador to work in the brothel, as dependents on their taxes. And they were also given tips on how to hide the money they make from the IRS.


So, let me get this straight, employees from a “community organizing group” were advising a couple on how to run a child prostitution business and not get caught, how to get a loan to house the business, and how to commit tax evasion. And this “community organizing group” has received upwards of 53 million dollars from our federal government since 1994, and were poised to receive billions from the stimulus plan (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/special-editorial-reports/ACORN-got-53-million-in-federal-funds-since-94-now-eligible-for-up-to-8-billion-more-44406217.html). Not to mention that Acorn was illegally operating in Maryland (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/15/exclusive-acorn-illegally-operating-in-maryland/) since 2006.


And straight from their employee handbook (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/14/acorns-lifeblood/) comes this little gem, "ACORN’s lifeblood is conflicts with targets outside the organization.” One would hope that an organization like Acorn would operate under the premise of their “lifeblood” being that of helping people escape the poverty cycle.

Thank goodness the White House is starting to distance itself (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/white-house-calls-acorn-employees-behavior-unacceptable.html) from Acorn. And thank goodness Acorn has suspended operations (http://c5.zedo.com/ads2/f/592827/1/172/0/305000062/305000062/0/305/42/zz-V1-pop1253110447825.html?a=;l=;p=) after almost a week of accusations that the videos have been doctored, cries of racism (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/11/maryland-acorn-official-foxnews-racism-behind-acorn-investigation/), threatening of lawsuits (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/14/john-fund-to-acorn-bring-on-the-lawsuit/), and claims that this was a case of just a handful of bad apples.

Where has the mainstream media been? All of this uproar was started by a couple of twenty-somethings with the gumption to do some investigative reporting. As a matter of fact, Charlie Gibson (http://biggovernment.com/2009/09/15/charlie-gibson-on-acorn-scandal-i-dont-even-know-about-it/) admitted to knowing nothing about this scandal in a radio interview earlier this week. Isn’t this the sort of thing that news shows like 60 Minutes used to investigate?

Azura
09-17-2009, 12:54 AM
Why would they when reality TV coverage gives them higher ratings? :unamused:

moiradochartaigh
09-17-2009, 03:20 PM
Watch out, Gellis... speak out against ACORN, and you're likely to be labeled a racist. :mmph:

So ACORN wants to sue? Ba-ring it. I, for one, will be eagerly awaiting the discovery phase of the investigation...

Gellis Indigo
09-17-2009, 05:21 PM
Watch out, Gellis... speak out against ACORN, and you're likely to be labeled a racist. :mmph:

So ACORN wants to sue? Ba-ring it. I, for one, will be eagerly awaiting the discovery phase of the investigation...

I guess that the charges of a federally funded organization aiding and abetting childhood prostitution and tax evasion aren't quite as concerning to some as one person stating the President was lying.

I, too, will be watching this story closely.

Isabelle Warwicke
09-18-2009, 01:56 AM
Gellis, thank you for posting this. I was wondering when their demons would catch up to them.

Laurensa
09-18-2009, 07:17 AM
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090916_ACORN_shows__pimp__and__pro__the_door_her e.html

daBaroness
09-18-2009, 09:46 AM
Here in Kansas City - ACORN has been holding bankers and others hostage for years with their questionable tactics. I wasn't aware their mission statement was quite so ... invasive. Like so many things that started out as a good idea to bring some equality to the loan-granting process, it has been corrupted to the point it doesn't even resemble anything good. Sad.

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-19-2009, 12:46 PM
Gellis, thank you for posting this. I was wondering when their demons would catch up to them.

Have you now? ACORN has been around since 1970. How long have you been wondering? I'd be surprised if it was before the time that FOX News told you to start wondering about it, during the election.

I'm not trying to excuse the misconduct of some of it's members, but the level of scrutiny that has been brought to bear upon ACORN by the right-wing is massively disproportionate to the significance of the organization, and has only come about after their activities to help increase voter turnout amongst the poor and minorities, who not so incidentally were more likely to be Obama voters.

Do you honestly believe that the people bleating the loudest over ACORN genuinely care that some of their employees are helping prostitutes cheat on their taxes? Or is it more likely that they are seeking political retribution against ACORN over their perception that ACORN played a role in putting "that one" in the White House?

Absent that, they would just be one of the countless non-profits that suck at the government tit that may or may not be behaving badly. One of the countless such organizations that go about their business without anybody batting an eyelash.

But woo hoo, let's crush ACORN! Serves them uppity ni**ers right, thinking they think they could just go ahead and do something like vote without repercussions.

Mission Accomplished.

Phoenix McHeit
09-19-2009, 01:28 PM
Hey Bob...? Could you maybe self-censor that last post? I mean, we all know what you mean, but could you please not use *that* word so... blatantly?

And yes, I know it's silly, but that's one that really makes me cringe. Thanks, babe.

Gellis Indigo
09-19-2009, 01:55 PM
You know, if the investigation into Acorn and voter fraud had failed to turn up so many instances in so many states, then I think your argument would hold more water.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Allegations of fraud have dogged Acorn for years, sometimes resulting in convictions. Last week in Florida, authorities arrested 11 Acorn workers and charged them with submitting fake voter registration papers. Two months ago, GOP Representative Darrell Issa of California issued a 88-page staff report on the organization's activities.

...to date some 70 Acorn employees in 12 states have been convicted of voter registration fraud.

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-19-2009, 10:07 PM
Hey Bob...? Could you maybe self-censor that last post? I mean, we all know what you mean, but could you please not use *that* word so... blatantly?

And yes, I know it's silly, but that's one that really makes me cringe. Thanks, babe.

ok. no problem.

But, for what it's worth, it's supposed to make you cringe.

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-19-2009, 10:08 PM
You know, if the investigation into Acorn and voter fraud had failed to turn up so many instances in so many states, then I think your argument would hold more water.

From the Wall Street Journal:


A) Voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. There's a difference and it's significant.

2) The breadth of the discovery in no way mitigates my point that the focus on ACORN is politically based.

Selena
09-19-2009, 10:48 PM
Absent that, they would just be one of the countless non-profits that suck at the government tit that may or may not be behaving badly. One of the countless such organizations that go about their business without anybody batting an eyelash.

:unamused: Please. Tell me about it.

Seriously, guys.

Just how many fed-funded-tit agencies AREN'T behaving badly to a degree?

If you think only a few, then you aren't paying attention.

Rid of the bad apples? Absolutely! However...


I can just about promise you... anytime, anywhere... there's SOME indiscretions going on. You.Just.Don't.Know.It.



You guys just have no idea the shit I've seen working for a fed-funded-state-elected official agency. It makes me sick to work there... every.day.

Margaret
09-21-2009, 09:04 AM
A) Voter registration fraud, not voter fraud. There's a difference and it's significant.



OK - here is an honest to goodness question.

Why would voters be fraudulently registered if the orgaization who assisted them in registering in the first place did not expect them to go out and vote?

Yeah it looks nice to fluff the stats of 'We have more registered voters than you." but other than to hit a supervisors quota of "I want you to go out and register 100 people today." why do it?

RichardMacHugely
09-21-2009, 09:31 AM
OK - here is an honest to goodness question.

Why would voters be fraudulently registered if the orgaization who assisted them in registering in the first place did not expect them to go out and vote?

Yeah it looks nice to fluff the stats of 'We have more registered voters than you." but other than to hit a supervisors quota of "I want you to go out and register 100 people today." why do it?

Your question contains the answer. Employees of ACORN defrauded the company by filing bogus registration forms. In most cases, ACORN itself suspected these applications were fraudulent, but state law requires that all applications be turned in to the State, private goups like ACORN are forbidden to determine on their own authority which voter registration forms are valid and which are fake.

So, while some ACORN employees padded their paychecks by sitting home filling out fake voter registration forms for people like "Mickey Mouse", none of these fake applications turned into fake votes, because A: the applications were rejected, and B: Voter fraud wasn't the the goal of the fraudsters, getting paid for doing no work was the goal.

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-21-2009, 11:00 PM
OK - here is an honest to goodness question.

Why would voters be fraudulently registered if the orgaization who assisted them in registering in the first place did not expect them to go out and vote?

Yeah it looks nice to fluff the stats of 'We have more registered voters than you." but other than to hit a supervisors quota of "I want you to go out and register 100 people today." why do it?

What Richard said. The point wasn't to get fraudulent votes cast, it was for individuals to get paid more money for getting the extra fake registrations. In those particular instances, ACORN was the victim of their employee's theft. Their policy was to pay people per signature collected, not per hour worked, so some employees tried to rip off ACORN by creating as many signatures as possible. ACORN has since discontinued that policy and has cooperated in attempts to prosecute the employees who did that.

And to add to Richard's point, while ACORN was obligated by law to turn in all applications no matter what, they themselves went the extra mile and made a point of segregating the applications that they felt were improper and turned them in separately along with a statement indicating their suspicions, which was above and beyond their statutory obligations.

letitfly
09-21-2009, 11:38 PM
What Richard said. The point wasn't to get fraudulent votes cast, it was for individuals to get paid more money for getting the extra fake registrations. In those particular instances, ACORN was the victim of their employee's theft. Their policy was to pay people per signature collected, not per hour worked, so some employees tried to rip off ACORN by creating as many signatures as possible. ACORN has since discontinued that policy and has cooperated in attempts to prosecute the employees who did that.

And to add to Richard's point, while ACORN was obligated by law to turn in all applications no matter what, they themselves went the extra mile and made a point of segregating the applications that they felt were improper and turned them in separately along with a statement indicating their suspicions, which was above and beyond their statutory obligations.


ACORN paid by the hour not signature. They had expected quotas but did not fire people for failure to fill them or pay bonuses.
The workers cheated by making up names rather than canvassing for real names.

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-22-2009, 06:58 PM
I hate to be a spoilsport and interject some truth into the discussion, but here:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200909170031


Police report filed by ACORN exposes false claims by individuals behind videos
September 17, 2009 3:57 pm ET

In recent days, Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe, the conservative filmmakers who made the widely circulated ACORN videos, as well as Andrew Breitbart and Mike Flynn, who have been promoting the videos for BigGovernment.com, have claimed that the filmmakers were never rebuffed by any of the ACORN offices they visited in their attempts to get ACORN to assist them in improper activities. However, in a newly released video, ACORN Housing Corp.'s Katherine Conway Russell directly rebuts those claims, citing a police report ACORN filed as evidence that she asked the filmmakers to leave the ACORN office in Philadelphia and called the police after the filmmakers asked suspicious questions.
[...]

Isabelle Warwicke
09-23-2009, 01:16 AM
Just how many fed-funded-tit agencies AREN'T behaving badly to a degree?

And I wish their bad deeds would come to light also. ACORN has been rotten in Chicago for a very long time. They may have been a great company with great programs at one time, but their original purpose has been sullied. I'm tired of seeing my tax dollars wasted on useless folk.

Isabelle Warwicke
09-23-2009, 01:17 AM
...the ACORN office in Philadelphia and called the police after the filmmakers asked suspicious questions...

In Philly.

What about the other cities (NYC, DC, Baltimore)?

Margaret
09-23-2009, 07:24 AM
I guess my big problem with groups like ACORN is that they take their mission a bit too seriously.

They belive so feverently that everyone deserves the opportunity to own their very own home that they became part of a lobby to lower the requirements for lending regulations, which they acheived. Thus allowing for more people to apply for and receive home loans.

Sound all warm and fuzzy? Isn't it nice taht they helped people get into a home. In many cases, yes. Mostly because the people who now qualified - even with sub prime mortgages worked hard, bought what they could afford and were smart about it. The sad part is that many, many more people who were assisted by ACORN defautled on the loans because they were not financially ready to accept the responsibility of home ownership.

Now ACORN is receiving how much money to bail these people out?! Due to the evil and predatory lenders who they demanded lower their regulations and rules for lending?

We all talk big about 'personal responsibilty' around here. When Jon and I applied for our mortgage, we were told that we qualified to get up to $170,000. This was back in 1995 when we were just starting out and not making a ton of money. We could have gone out and found a house for 170K or more very easily. We would be eating beans and ramen and not going anywhere or doing anything because the house would be all that we could afford. We, however, used our brains and found a home that cost us way less than 170K. We worked hard, moved up in our companies and now our mortage is not a stress.

Yes - it would be "nice" if everyone could have a home, but you can not be so blind as to see the problems you are creating as well.

daBaroness
09-23-2009, 10:31 AM
I guess my big problem with groups like ACORN is that they take their mission a bit too seriously.

They belive so feverently that everyone deserves the opportunity to own their very own home that they became part of a lobby to lower the requirements for lending regulations, which they acheived. Thus allowing for more people to apply for and receive home loans.

Sound all warm and fuzzy? Isn't it nice taht they helped people get into a home. In many cases, yes. Mostly because the people who now qualified - even with sub prime mortgages worked hard, bought what they could afford and were smart about it. The sad part is that many, many more people who were assisted by ACORN defautled on the loans because they were not financially ready to accept the responsibility of home ownership.

Now ACORN is receiving how much money to bail these people out?! Due to the evil and predatory lenders who they demanded lower their regulations and rules for lending?

We all talk big about 'personal responsibilty' around here. When Jon and I applied for our mortgage, we were told that we qualified to get up to $170,000. This was back in 1995 when we were just starting out and not making a ton of money. We could have gone out and found a house for 170K or more very easily. We would be eating beans and ramen and not going anywhere or doing anything because the house would be all that we could afford. We, however, used our brains and found a home that cost us way less than 170K. We worked hard, moved up in our companies and now our mortage is not a stress.

Yes - it would be "nice" if everyone could have a home, but you can not be so blind as to see the problems you are creating as well.

I lurves you girl. The voice of reason in an unreasonable world. Where'd you get those values ... your parents? I often think if many of us (myself definitely included) had listened to our parents more, followed their examples and advice more - we'd be in a LOT better place today. When my parents were a young couple they lived very frugally. They never bought anything on credit. If they needed something, they either saved or put it on lay-away and paid it off before they got it. To this day my mother contends the downfall of society is their insatiable need for instant gratification. I would agree.

My parents built their first house with help of friends and family. The garage didn't go on for about 10 years and it too, was built with help of f & f. Our family room was in the basement and due to my mother's creativity and frugality our Olde English Pub was done using wood reclaimed from a very rustic cabin originally on the property, my father and grandfather's cabinet-making skills and clearance sale fabric. It was amazing - and affordable.

Margaret
09-23-2009, 11:39 AM
I lurves you girl. The voice of reason in an unreasonable world. Where'd you get those values ... your parents?

Funny the things you pick up from them, isn't it? :-D

Isabelle Warwicke
09-23-2009, 11:58 AM
I lurves you girl. The voice of reason in an unreasonable world. Where'd you get those values ... your parents?

Yep. Me too. My parents now hold the Deed to the home they bought when I was 3 years old. Daddy had a Mortgage Burning party the month after he paid it off.

I worked hard for my home, saved my money, had a bit of help from my folks and waited until I qualified for a plain old vanilla loan before I bought a house. I don't have a 60/40 HUD adjustable rate mortgage that's going to bury me in 3 years. I bought the house cheap from a bank and put 18% down, so I don't have alot of PMI. It's not my last house, it's my starter house. It came with a ton of equity and I'm not living outside my means. We added more this past July when my Friends and Family helped me build the garage.

I'm tired of watching folk receive what they didn't earn.

daBaroness
09-23-2009, 04:28 PM
Funny the things you pick up from them, isn't it? :-D

Must be that good old Michigan upbringing. LOL Or being brought up during the Depression. My mom can make a nickle scream for its life!

Laurensa
09-24-2009, 08:08 AM
Must be that good old Michigan upbringing. LOL Or being brought up during the Depression. My mom can make a nickle scream for its life!


Greg and I were given the opportunity about six years ago to get in on one of those loans that were really low payments, then had a huge balloon payment after two years. "You just have to make sure you refinance before the two years is up".

Something niggled at my brain, said "Don't do it, you'll be sorry" and for once I listened. I cannot begin to tell you how glad I am that I listened to that tiny little voice. I want nothing more than my own home, but to have it, and then LOSE it, would be ten times worse!