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View Full Version : Argue nice or go to jail.



Roberto Phoenix
01-09-2010, 11:45 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1240770/France-introduce-new-law-banning-psychological-violence-marriages.html

They should have fun enforcing this one.

Branwen
01-09-2010, 12:52 PM
2010 I'd like you to meet 1984. Play nice, follow the rules. We will know, Big Brother is watching.

Lady Hefron
01-09-2010, 12:53 PM
Just wow. Talk about the Nanny state!

Ysobelle
01-09-2010, 01:55 PM
I'm uncomfortable with it on one level, but on another, hey, at least one country has made psychological abuse a punishable offense! In some cases, women need all the help they can get. So often, emotionally abuse gets waved off, when it can be pretty horrific.

Pretty much unenforceable on the whole, though.

Betty Munro
01-09-2010, 08:05 PM
Whooo hoooo! I'm all for it. In the age of nanny cams and streaming internet video it is not as unenforceable as one would initially believe.
There is a huge difference between having a disagreement and hard core emotional abuse. Plus neighbors often hear the screaming, but can't do anything about it because they didn't see physical contact.

Ysobelle
01-09-2010, 08:11 PM
There is a huge difference between having a disagreement and hard core emotional abuse. Plus neighbors often hear the screaming, but can't do anything about it because they didn't see physical contact.



Excellent point.

Gemdrite
01-09-2010, 09:34 PM
While I agree with you, where do you draw the line? We already have a problem of parents being accused of child abuse for spanking their children...I can just imagine the slippery slope this will go down.

Betty Munro
01-09-2010, 10:11 PM
slippery slope or not ...
It is just sad that we (in general / our society) have to legislate to be nice to each other.

Torra
01-10-2010, 08:59 AM
Here's my two cents: I don't WANT the state to legislate that I be nice to anyone. Civil, yes. Respectful, yes. As a human being, yes. Nice, no. I feel like this is far too into the field of regulating people's feelings and as Gem said, it's a slippery slope. I would rather lower standards for investigation of the possibility for spousal abuse (ie neighbors can call in a complaint and actually do something about what they heard, even if they saw nothing).

Betty Munro
01-10-2010, 04:35 PM
Back in the good old days ... when my Grandpa came home (drunk) and slapped my Grandma around because dinner was cold and she dared to question how much he had drank, she picked up a frying pan and defended herself. He decided it wasn't such a good idea to slap Grandma. Today ... Grandma would be the one to go to jail, Grandpa would divorce her and get custody of the kids. So, which is it, can I hit the bastard with a frying pan, or can I call the cops and actually get some help??? I really don't care either way, but I want one or the other. Since we probably all agree the frying pan probably isn't the best solution, maybe regulation isn't all that bad. That's all I'm saying ...
And for the record, those who are apposed to regulation, I do respect your opinion. I just wish it were a perfect world. :)

Ysobelle
01-10-2010, 06:19 PM
Here's my two cents: I don't WANT the state to legislate that I be nice to anyone. Civil, yes. Respectful, yes. As a human being, yes. Nice, no. I feel like this is far too into the field of regulating people's feelings and as Gem said, it's a slippery slope. I would rather lower standards for investigation of the possibility for spousal abuse (ie neighbors can call in a complaint and actually do something about what they heard, even if they saw nothing).



Yeah, but you're also probably-- I devoutly hope!-- not the kind of person to have to need protection like this. I think it's aimed more at the kind of situation where, for example, a man tells his wife she's useless and stupid, no one else will ever want her, and the world would be better off without her. And after a while, she believes it. I'm not entirely sure if there's much he can be charged with should she one day try to take her own life.

See what I mean?

BronxGirl
01-10-2010, 06:28 PM
When husband #1 continually emotionally and psychologically abused me, I wish there had been something like this. As long as he didn't hit me, no one cared.

Further to what Nikki just wrote, suicide was always an option.

LdyJhawk
01-10-2010, 06:32 PM
I spent four years being emotionally abused and degraded. Insulted, coerced into actions I didn't want... all because in the end, who really cares if it's emotional, he doesn't hit you!

I'm rather interested to see how this turns out. Too bad it can't be applied retroactively...and in California

Ysobelle
01-10-2010, 06:34 PM
Sadly, you guys are illustrating exactly what I meant. I'm so sorry.

I don't know if this is the explicit reasoning behind the French law. It may be completely bonkers. But what I'm talking about are extraordinary circumstances, not mere rudeness. That you just have to deal with sometimes, alas.

Gemdrite
01-10-2010, 06:54 PM
Yeah, but you're also probably-- I devoutly hope!-- not the kind of person to have to need protection like this. I think it's aimed more at the kind of situation where, for example, a man tells his wife she's useless and stupid, no one else will ever want her, and the world would be better off without her. And after a while, she believes it. I'm not entirely sure if there's much he can be charged with should she one day try to take her own life.

See what I mean?
I do see what you mean, but that's exactly what worries me. It's aimed at a certain situation, but do you really believe that's all it will ever be used for? Children used to be seen as their parents' property, to be treated however the parents felt like treating them. We enacted laws to protect children so that those whose parents abused them could be protected, but now good parents are being accused of abuse for spanking their children or, even more ridiculously, denying them priviledges or toys! I feel for any woman who's been abused verbally or physically, or mistreated in any possible way, I'm just keeping in mind the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." I think initially this could do a lot of good, but several months or years down the road, I fear it will be abused by people whose noses are out of joint or stuck where they don't belong.

LdyJhawk
01-10-2010, 07:04 PM
I do see what you mean, but that's exactly what worries me. It's aimed at a certain situation, but do you really believe that's all it will ever be used for? Children used to be seen as their parents' property, to be treated however the parents felt like treating them. We enacted laws to protect children so that those whose parents abused them could be protected, but now good parents are being accused of abuse for spanking their children or, even more ridiculously, denying them priviledges or toys! I feel for any woman who's been abused verbally or physically, or mistreated in any possible way, I'm just keeping in mind the phrase "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." I think initially this could do a lot of good, but several months or years down the road, I fear it will be abused by people whose noses are out of joint or stuck where they don't belong.



And me? I would rather a law be in place that inconveniences one or two people so that it helps dozens of others. I was terrified of leaving because I thought no one else would love me. No one else would help me, no one would care. I thought that if he didn't want me, who would..because all I heard was that I was stupid and a bitch and lucky he would put up with me....and I wanted to die. SO MANY TIMES I sat and stared at bottles of vicodin and wished for the strength to do it. And so many times I thought why bother, because no one would care even if I was gone....

THAT is what emotional abuse, true emotional abuse can bring a person to. THAT is what manipulation and verbal cruelty can cause. Over a year later, I am still horrified by my own feelings. I STILL spend moments crying because I'm certain I'm worth nothing.. and it's hard because I have someone now who isn't that way but it's hard to reconcile the difference

Betty Munro
01-11-2010, 06:08 PM
I think it's aimed more at the kind of situation where, for example, a man tells his wife she's useless and stupid, no one else will ever want her, and the world would be better off without her. And after a while, she believes it. See what I mean?

What exactly where you doing in my living room?