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Isabelle Warwicke
02-19-2010, 12:02 PM
Tiger Woods is about the make a statement!

I'm changing the channel.

OhFFS. He's on every major network!

Alluring Alora
02-19-2010, 12:11 PM
What passes as important news is astounding to me.

A golfer cheats on his wife (at an astounding rate) is really more importnat than everything else going on? Really?

If I were at home watching TV right now, do you know how pissed I'd be if they cut into the Price is Right for that? Sorry, the Showcase Showdown is of more importance to me than anything Tiger Woods has to say.

Maybe my priorities are screwed up. On the plus side, I guess that qualifies me to run a tv network...

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 12:38 PM
The biggest sports celebrity in this country, if not the world, has been in seclusion for the past 3 months after the eruption of a major scandal that saturated the media for several weeks.

So yeah, I can see how his breaking silence might be something the networks find newsworthy.

As for the showcase showdown, they cut in at the top of the hour, so you're just missing the beginning of the show, not the end. ;)

Phoenix McHeit
02-19-2010, 12:47 PM
He couldn't manage to keep his dick in his pants, and was so smug he figured he wouldn't, COULDN'T get caught. With THIRTEEN different women! Hell, even Santa Claus stops after 3 Ho's.

Sorry but when he decides to come back out of self-imposed seclusion and do a flipping Media Event, it just makes me cringe. I'm supposed to feel sorry for him? For his 'addiction'? For what this did to HIM? HE is the one hurting?

What arrogance. What hubris. What ... oh look, Evan Lysacek got the Gold!!! GO USA - what a beautiful routine! What flawless jumps, spins and landings. What passion for the sport!

I'm sorry, what were we talking about before? ::sleepy::

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 12:49 PM
He couldn't manage to keep his dick in his pants, and was so smug he figured he wouldn't, COULDN'T get caught.
[...]
I'm supposed to feel sorry for him? For his 'addiction'? For what this did to HIM? HE is the one hurting?

I guess you didn't actually listen to the statement then.

You should. Then reread what you wrote above and blush.

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 12:51 PM
When he started talking about Buddhism, I bet that schmuck Brit Hume's (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/01/04/brit-hume-tiger-woods-should-turn-to-the-christian-faith/) head exploded. :lol:

Lady Hefron
02-19-2010, 12:56 PM
I couldn't care less what a cheating scumbag has to say. I just wish he would fade into obscurity along with the sluts he cheated with. Obscurity is where all trash belongs.

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 01:03 PM
You can have the first stone then, I take it?

Phoenix McHeit
02-19-2010, 01:03 PM
I guess you didn't actually listen to the statement then.

You should. Then reread what you wrote above and blush.

No, I didn't listen to it. I couldn't care less what he has to say about himself or the awful things he did. Why would I waste a minute of my time giving him the attention that he so desperately craves? Buh Bye Tiger.

Oh I'm certain he said all the 'right' things, made all the 'right' noises about contrition, that he's so sorry, etc etc etc. I'm sure his handlers wouldn't let him on the air without a well rehearsed, well worded script. I'm sure he can 'sell it' like he did for Buick, Nike, et al. But I'm not buying.

So no need for me to blush, thanks.

Alluring Alora
02-19-2010, 01:06 PM
The biggest sports celebrity in this country, if not the world, has been in seclusion for the past 3 months after the eruption of a major scandal that saturated the media for several weeks.


Oh, I'm supposed to care becasue he's good at golf. I see.


I still don't care, darn.


It should not have saturated the media in the first place. Guys (and women) cheat every day. Because he's a sports figure or any celebrity figure, I'm supposed to care?

Unless it's my husband or a memeber of my family, I don't think I'm required to care, and in my opinion, nobody else needs to care this much either.

I don't recall any media attention back when my dad tried to kill my mom, I guess he should have worked harder on his swing...

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 01:08 PM
Oh, I'm supposed to care becasue he's good at golf. I see.

I'm not sure where I said that you should care at all for any reason.

I pointed out why I understand why the media would be falling over themselves to cover it.

But your sarcasm is duly noted.

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 01:09 PM
No, I didn't listen to it. I couldn't care less what he has to say about himself or the awful things he did. Why would I waste a minute of my time giving him the attention that he so desperately craves? Buh Bye Tiger.

Oh I'm certain he said all the 'right' things, made all the 'right' noises about contrition, that he's so sorry, etc etc etc. I'm sure his handlers wouldn't let him on the air without a well rehearsed, well worded script. I'm sure he can 'sell it' like he did for Buick, Nike, et al. But I'm not buying.

So no need for me to blush, thanks.

Hey, if you're comfortable expressing uninformed opinions then go right ahead.

Phoenix McHeit
02-19-2010, 01:13 PM
Bob - why are you defending him so much?

And my opinion is my own, never said anyone had to agree with me.

ETA: Nevermind, I'm done feeding you for today. Pick another victim.

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 01:14 PM
It should not have saturated the media in the first place. Guys (and women) cheat every day. Because he's a sports figure or any celebrity figure, I'm supposed to care?

Unless it's my husband or a memeber of my family, I don't think I'm required to care, and in my opinion, nobody else needs to care this much either.

And for what it's worth, I agree with you there. When all this first came out, Tiger should have simply issued a statement to the media that began and ended with, "I'm Keith Hernandez, fuck you. As soon as any of this is your business, I'll let you know. Any further questions can be directed to that brick wall over there." and he should have gone out the next tournament and destroyed the field.

But he didn't and it turned into what it turned into so it's understandable how 3 months later the networks chose to break into non-primetime to cover it.

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 01:15 PM
Bob - why are you defending him so much?

And my opinion is my own, never said anyone had to agree with me.

I'm not defending him, it's just that what you said is almost exactly contrary to the statement he made.

We're all used to the weaselly ("Mistakes were made") non-apology apologies that the politicians have been issuing for the last few years.

This wasn't that.


In any case, when you gals get your pitchforks and estrogen-burning torches out, I should know enough to just step aside.

Phoenix McHeit
02-19-2010, 01:46 PM
In any case, when you gals get your pitchforks and estrogen-burning torches out, I should know enough to just step aside.

That is unfair and you know it. A cheating scumbag is a cheating scumbag, regardless of gender. I'm really surprised that you would throw that comment out there. Maybe I shouldn't be.

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 01:53 PM
That is unfair and you know it. A cheating scumbag is a cheating scumbag, regardless of gender. I'm really surprised that you would throw that comment out there.

I'm not even talking about this issue specifically. Sometimes all y'all wenches just unanimously get your minds made up on something and go on a bitchfest (not a festival of bitches, a festival of bitching, just to be clear) and I've found it to be best in such circumstances to simply not chime in with an unpopular opinion, because after all, this is y'all's board. I'm just a guest here.

For me, a pretty good rule of thumb for determining a thread to which I should give a wide berth is one where you and Isabelle are in agreement. :-)


But if you want to discuss unfair, let's talk about words like "feeding" and "victim".

daBaroness
02-19-2010, 03:00 PM
I know - how 'bout we don't care and leave it at that?!

Phoenix McHeit
02-19-2010, 03:01 PM
I've found it to be best in such circumstances to simply not chime in with an unpopular opinion
*snip*
...a thread to which I should give a wide berth
And yet here you are. Irony, party of one, your table is ready.


But if you want to discuss unfair, let's talk about words like "feeding" and "victim".Fine, let's. For awhile now, it seems like you've been spoiling for a fight. And it doesn't even seem to matter with whom. You'll sit on a thread and immediately pounce on comments made (sometimes even dredging up old comments from the past) and on occasion twisting their meanings, just to pick a fight. If I didn't know you better, I'd say you were trolling. Hence the 'feeding' comment.

Some of your comments are the snarkiest and most disdainful I've ever seen here, whether from male or female. So I'd back off a bit on the broad-gender-brush, please. For one who instantly jumps on broad brushing, you've been doing quite a bit of it yourself.

I've been feeling a bit bruised by your treatment of anyone on here who has the audacity to disagree with you. Today it happened to be me, but I'm far from being the only one. Hence the 'victim' comment.

Pretension may be your strong suit, but it's hardly a glowing recommendation.

MaidenFaeSnow
02-19-2010, 03:39 PM
Oh dear, history repeating itself only with a different male.

Cyranno DeBoberac
02-19-2010, 03:50 PM
And yet here you are. Irony, party of one, your table is ready.

Yes. I know. Hence my "I should know better" comment. If we're just going to point out the obvious to one another, it's going to get even more boring quickly.




Fine, let's. For awhile now, it seems like you've been spoiling for a fight. And it doesn't even seem to matter with whom. You'll sit on a thread and immediately pounce on comments made (sometimes even dredging up old comments from the past) and on occasion twisting their meanings, just to pick a fight. If I didn't know you better, I'd say you were trolling. Hence the 'feeding' comment.

Some of your comments are the snarkiest and most disdainful I've ever seen here, whether from male or female. So I'd back off a bit on the broad-gender-brush, please. For one who instantly jumps on broad brushing, you've been doing quite a bit of it yourself.

I've been feeling a bit bruised by your treatment of anyone on here who has the audacity to disagree with you. Today it happened to be me, but I'm far from being the only one. Hence the 'victim' comment.

Pretension may be your strong suit, but it's hardly a glowing recommendation.


I just pulled up my posting history. Of the last 41 of my posts prior to this thread, 15 of them were fluff about things like snowmen and ninja cats and pregnant girls without vaginas. The other 27 were on topics like Lego guns and Jon Stewart on O'Reilly's show, where my posts were largely innocuous, and airport body scans and Senator Brown.

In the Sen Brown thread, one post involved me quoting an innocuous observational joke from Jon Stewart contrasting the political philosophies of Massachusetts with the rest of the country (meant to placate the posters who were worried that Sen Brown was going overturn Roe v. Wade or something), and the rest trying to ascertain exactly why someone found that joke offensive. And frankly, I displayed a tremendous amount of patience and reasonableness in that thread, bending over backwards to not be snarky and disdainful, even though the process was like pulling teeth, and not until it was clear that the person in question just was being offended for the sake of being offended and wasn't willing or able to articulate it further and I was being dismissed as not being able to understand, only then did I allow for some disdainful snark. If nothing else, my restraint in that thread was admirable.

In the airport body scan thread, some of my 11 posts were fairly evenly split between fluff like lolcats screaming Khan and imagining Nikki naked. Some of those posts were a legal discussion regarding what does and does not constitute child pornography under the law.

And then a few of those posts in that thread were politely calling you out for implying that men didn't have dignity or shame or something like that.

But if that is what makes you feel like a victim, well, I'm not sure what can be done about that.

So, out of 41 posts prior to this thread, that's maybe 2 that were snarky.

And 2 that called you out for overstepping. And I'm guessing that's the unforgivable sin that's brought this on.


Prior to that was the ACORN thread, and yes, that may have been a bit gratuitous and snarky on my part, but considering the circle-jill that was going on when the so-called "sting" videos first were released, it wasn't unwarranted. As for the old comments from the past that I referenced in that thread, they were directly on point with regards to the topic. And the meanings weren't twisted. First off, the quote was properly linked so the context was available, second it was presented as an ironic contrast, third, the "oh, wait..." in my post highlighted the nature of the citation. In any case, do opinions have statutes of limitations now? They had a gloat thread filled with misinformation, and when the truth is finally available, pointing it out makes me the dick? Really???

Fine, whatevs.

Seacrest out.

LdyJhawk
02-19-2010, 03:55 PM
I couldn't care less what a cheating scumbag has to say. I just wish he would fade into obscurity along with the sluts he cheated with. Obscurity is where all trash belongs.

Wow really? slut shaming too? Delightful!

I mean yeah, I don't think Tiger owed the American public an apology. I think he owed his wife and family a heartfelt "hey sorry" but the public? eh.

GypsyEtte
02-19-2010, 04:38 PM
Yawn.

The only people to whom he owes an explanation and an apology are his family. Seriously, is this earth shattering news, worthy of relentless media scrutiny!? Give me a flippin' break. I guess the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the state of our economy, and the aftermath in Haiti pale in comparison to the tawdry exploits of yet another celebrity. :roll:

surlywench
02-19-2010, 05:17 PM
Here's the text of the statement. I wonder, how does one discern between "all the 'right' notes of contrition" and someone who is actually sorry?

He admits to being an entitled ass.

We are none of us perfect. Most of us are lucky enough that our bad behavior isn't cause for national concern. He did wrong, he's working on not doing it again. I don't know anyone who's never needed a second chance at some point.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiger Woods Statement Text
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (CP) – 2 hours ago

PONTE VEDRA BEACH, Fla. — Text of Tiger Woods' statement Friday, as transcribed by ASAP Sports:

Good morning, and thank you for joining me. Many of you in this room are my friends. Many of you in this room know me. Many of you have cheered for me or you've worked with me or you've supported me.

Now every one of you has good reason to be critical of me. I want to say to each of you, simply and directly, I am deeply sorry for my irresponsible and selfish behaviour I engaged in.

I know people want to find out how I could be so selfish and so foolish. People want to know how I could have done these things to my wife Elin and to my children. And while I have always tried to be a private person, there are some things I want to say.

Elin and I have started the process of discussing the damage caused by my behaviour. As Elin pointed out to me, my real apology to her will not come in the form of words; it will come from my behaviour over time. We have a lot to discuss; however, what we say to each other will remain between the two of us.

I am also aware of the pain my behaviour has caused to those of you in this room. I have let you down, and I have let down my fans. For many of you, especially my friends, my behaviour has been a personal disappointment. To those of you who work for me, I have let you down personally and professionally. My behaviour has caused considerable worry to my business partners.

To everyone involved in my foundation, including my staff, board of directors, sponsors, and most importantly, the young students we reach, our work is more important than ever. Thirteen years ago, my dad and I envisioned helping young people achieve their dreams through education. This work remains unchanged and will continue to grow. From the Learning Center students in Southern California to the Earl Woods scholars in Washington, D.C., millions of kids have changed their lives, and I am dedicated to making sure that continues.

But still, I know I have bitterly disappointed all of you. I have made you question who I am and how I could have done the things I did. I am embarrassed that I have put you in this position.

For all that I have done, I am so sorry.

I have a lot to atone for, but there is one issue I really want to discuss. Some people have speculated that Elin somehow hurt or attacked me on Thanksgiving night. It angers me that people would fabricate a story like that. Elin never hit me that night or any other night. There has never been an episode of domestic violence in our marriage, ever. Elin has shown enormous grace and poise throughout this ordeal. Elin deserves praise, not blame.

The issue involved here was my repeated irresponsible behaviour. I was unfaithful. I had affairs. I cheated. What I did is not acceptable, and I am the only person to blame.

I stopped living by the core values that I was taught to believe in. I knew my actions were wrong, but I convinced myself that normal rules didn't apply. I never thought about who I was hurting. Instead, I thought only about myself. I ran straight through the boundaries that a married couple should live by. I thought I could get away with whatever I wanted to. I felt that I had worked hard my entire life and deserved to enjoy all the temptations around me. I felt I was entitled. Thanks to money and fame, I didn't have to go far to find them.

I was wrong. I was foolish. I don't get to play by different rules. The same boundaries that apply to everyone apply to me. I brought this shame on myself. I hurt my wife, my kids, my mother, my wife's family, my friends, my foundation, and kids all around the world who admired me.

I've had a lot of time to think about what I've done. My failures have made me look at myself in a way I never wanted to before. It's now up to me to make amends, and that starts by never repeating the mistakes I've made. It's up to me to start living a life of integrity.

I once heard, and I believe it's true, it's not what you achieve in life that matters; it's what you overcome. Achievements on the golf course are only part of setting an example. Character and decency are what really count.

Parents used to point to me as a role model for their kids. I owe all those families a special apology. I want to say to them that I am truly sorry.

It's hard to admit that I need help, but I do. For 45 days from the end of December to early February, I was in inpatient therapy receiving guidance for the issues I'm facing. I have a long way to go. But I've taken my first steps in the right direction.

As I proceed, I understand people have questions. I understand the press wants to ask me for the details and the times I was unfaithful. I understand people want to know whether Elin and I will remain together. Please know that as far as I'm concerned, every one of these questions and answers is a matter between Elin and me. These are issues between a husband and a wife.

Some people have made up things that never happened. They said I used performance-enhancing drugs. This is completely and utterly false. Some have written things about my family. Despite the damage I have done, I still believe it is right to shield my family from the public spotlight. They did not do these things; I did.

I have always tried to maintain a private space for my wife and children. They have been kept separate from my sponsors, my commercial endorsements. When my children were born, we only released photographs so that the paparazzi could not chase them. However, my behaviour doesn't make it right for the media to follow my two-and-a-half-year-old daughter to school and report the school's location. They staked out my wife and they pursued my mom. Whatever my wrongdoings, for the sake of my family, please leave my wife and kids alone.

I recognize I have brought this on myself, and I know above all I am the one who needs to change. I owe it to my family to become a better person. I owe it to those closest to me to become a better man. That's where my focus will be.

I have a lot of work to do, and I intend to dedicate myself to doing it. Part of following this path for me is Buddhism, which my mother taught me at a young age. People probably don't realize it, but I was raised a Buddhist, and I actively practiced my faith from childhood until I drifted away from it in recent years. Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security. It teaches me to stop following every impulse and to learn restraint. Obviously I lost track of what I was taught.

As I move forward, I will continue to receive help because I've learned that's how people really do change. Starting tomorrow, I will leave for more treatment and more therapy. I would like to thank my friends at Accenture and the players in the field this week for understanding why I'm making these remarks today.

In therapy I've learned the importance of looking at my spiritual life and keeping in balance with my professional life. I need to regain my balance and be centred so I can save the things that are most important to me, my marriage and my children.

That also means relying on others for help. I've learned to seek support from my peers in therapy, and I hope someday to return that support to others who are seeking help.

Copyright 2010 The Canadian Press. All rights reserved.

Lady Hefron
02-19-2010, 05:55 PM
.
In the Sen Brown thread, one post involved me quoting an innocuous observational joke from Jon Stewart contrasting the political philosophies of Massachusetts with the rest of the country (meant to placate the posters who were worried that Sen Brown was going overturn Roe v. Wade or something), and the rest trying to ascertain exactly why someone found that joke offensive. And frankly, I displayed a tremendous amount of patience and reasonableness in that thread, bending over backwards to not be snarky and disdainful, even though the process was like pulling teeth, and not until it was clear that the person in question just was being offended for the sake of being offended and wasn't willing or able to articulate it further and I was being dismissed as not being able to understand, only then did I allow for some disdainful snark. If nothing else, my restraint in that thread was admirable.


Actually, Bob, I got bored with the argument and completely ignored it after I stated my reasons.

Phoenix McHeit
02-19-2010, 06:38 PM
Sorry Surlz - I've no time nor sympathy for cheaters. Whether they're on a national stage or not, whether they're entitled or not, whether they're sorry or not.

That one thing is my line in the sand. YMMV.

shadowcat546
02-19-2010, 07:29 PM
Go, Ladies ! *woot woot*. Cheaters stink. If my tv wasn't broken, I'd change channels too. tv needs to play information (weather, stats, shows, lost kids/adults, wall street/economy news/auto recalls). that's it for me, lest I become a target. --Shannon

MaidenFaeSnow
02-19-2010, 09:39 PM
Wow really? slut shaming too? Delightful!

I mean yeah, I don't think Tiger owed the American public an apology. I think he owed his wife and family a heartfelt "hey sorry" but the public? eh.

He was an icon to a lot of people. He did something, (over and over) that caused pain to his family. It also had a ripple effect touching the companies and profits of his sponsors. Loss was suffered not just by his family. For that reason, I think he did owe an apology to many more people.

Lady Sarah
02-19-2010, 09:58 PM
The statement he made this morning was the statement he *should* have made months ago when this first came out.

He was absolutely correct in apologizing to everyone else - his sponsors, the fans, every one. He was very adamant in saying that his apologies to his wife would be private.

I do applaud him, however, for beseeching the press to leave his children, and his family, alone.

LdyJhawk
02-19-2010, 10:45 PM
He was an icon to a lot of people. He did something, (over and over) that caused pain to his family. It also had a ripple effect touching the companies and profits of his sponsors. Loss was suffered not just by his family. For that reason, I think he did owe an apology to many more people.

He can apologize to his sponsors then but at no point does he owe the american public an apology. If he felt it would in some way help his career then hey, more power to him but the entitled opinion of the general populace who seemed to think they were due a mea culpa for his was a little creepy*

Buuut yeah, the other part of this that's bothering me is the general "those sluts" ..uh wha? Hey for all we know he pulled the very traditional "no, my divorce is filed and almost final" and honestly most women believe that because they believe they can trust this person. Dubbing them sluts? Nice. Really nice. Until you know precisely the situation, it's hardly the enlightened approach people seem to state they take 'round these parts.

*not indicating anyone on these boards felt they were owed but by combing the internet upon initial revelations of infidelity people seemed to have a very "WTF HOW DARE HE HE BETTER SAY HE'S SORRY TO EVERY SINGLE FAN!" mentality

Lady Hefron
02-19-2010, 10:52 PM
Buuut yeah, the other part of this that's bothering me is the general "those sluts" ..uh wha? Hey for all we know he pulled the very traditional "no, my divorce is filed and almost final" and honestly most women believe that because they believe they can trust this person. Dubbing them sluts? Nice. Really nice. Until you know precisely the situation, it's hardly the enlightened approach people seem to state they take 'round these parts.


I'm sorry but any woman who messes around with a married man is, in my mind, a slut. You wait until the divorce is final...he is famous enough so they knew and would have known.

You can't blame just the man. It is just as much the woman's fault as the man's.

LdyJhawk
02-19-2010, 11:47 PM
I'm sorry but any woman who messes around with a married man is, in my mind, a slut. You wait until the divorce is final...he is famous enough so they knew and would have known.

You can't blame just the man. It is just as much the woman's fault as the man's.

So.. when women (some even on this board) are going through a divorce and sleeping with someone else do you also consider them sluts? I'm actually interested in hearing this.

Isabelle Warwicke
02-19-2010, 11:52 PM
So.. when women (some even on this board) are going through a divorce and sleeping with someone else do you also consider them sluts? I'm actually interested in hearing this.

No, I consider him who is sleeping with her a slut. He's sleeping with a married woman. The pendulum swings both ways. Ther are certain parameters I'm willing to see pushed, like the divorce taking 5 years to complete. However, I'm with Phee on the cheating while *married* issue. Un.For.Give.Able.

Frankly, I'm tired. Tiger should just shut up and play golf. This meticulously choreographed Media Event was a ridiculous waste of digital bandwidth. (Also, it pre-empted the first 20 minutes of the Racheal Ray show here. Imagine my joy that Alora's episode aired yesterday.)

My issue with this farce is that this "Event" was invite only and no questions were allowed after. Even the major American golf organizations weren't there.

He said he's sorry. If he never does this again, I'll believe him then.

Isabelle Warwicke
02-20-2010, 12:07 AM
*snort* In other fun news, one of Tiger's former mistresses (mistressi?), porn star Joslyn James and her lawyer, Gloria Allred, are wondering when Tiger will be apologizing to *her.*

:unamused:

Azura
02-20-2010, 06:13 AM
*snort* In other fun news, one of Tiger's former mistresses (mistressi?), porn star Joslyn James and her lawyer, Gloria Allred, are wondering when Tiger will be apologizing to *her.*

:unamused:

pfft!
For what?? Not calling her back?!

MaidenFaeSnow
02-20-2010, 07:39 AM
He can apologize to his sponsors then but at no point does he owe the american public an apology.

Like I said, many people viewed him as an icon, children looked up to him and wanted to be like him because of the image he portrayed. He shattered that image not by one account, but many. Yes, an apology was necessary to the public.

As far as deeming the other women as sluts, from some of the interviews I saw, many of these women knew he was still married, even knew when his wife was pregnant and yet still chose to slither around with him.

Phoenix McHeit
02-20-2010, 09:23 AM
It's not like he was some Joe Businessman in town for a Conference, charming the pants off (literally) of the local bar waitress while trying to hide his pale circle of flesh on his left ring finger.

He's Tiger Woods, fer chrissake. They knew he was married. They knew what they were doing. They chose to do it anyway.

Lady Anisette
02-20-2010, 11:17 AM
I'm sorry but any woman who messes around with a married man is, in my mind, a slut. You wait until the divorce is final...he is famous enough so they knew and would have known.

You can't blame just the man. It is just as much the woman's fault as the man's.

Well then Lisa, I guess I am a slut.

I once fell very much in love with a man who was married. He was separated and there were many factors involved. None of which you were a party to. You have no idea what is going through anyone's mind at that time. Yes, I knew I should wait, but I was also desperately in love with that man. The affair nearly destroyed me and it has taken many years for me to recover.

You don't know what I was thinking or feeling. Until you have walked a mile in that person's shoes, be very careful about labeling them any name.

Lady Hefron
02-20-2010, 11:19 AM
Knowingly sleeping with a married man or woman makes you a slut. Sleeping around while you are still married, see definition below, makes you a scumbag.

Definition of married in this case : In a committed relationship where you are expected to be faithful, I'll go so far as to include common law marriage and long term committed relationships in this definition for this argument. This excludes clearly separated while waiting for a divorce to go through.

Hopefully this makes my position clear.

Lady Hefron
02-20-2010, 11:21 AM
Well then Lisa, I guess I am a slut.

I once fell very much in love with a man who was married. He was separated and there were many factors involved. None of which you were a party to. You have no idea what is going through anyone's mind at that time. Yes, I knew I should wait, but I was also desperately in love with that man. The affair nearly destroyed me and it has taken many years for me to recover.

You don't know what I was thinking or feeling. Until you have walked a mile in that person's shoes, be very careful about labeling them any name.

Lady A...please read my explanation above.

Lady Anisette
02-20-2010, 11:32 AM
Explanations aside, unless you know exactly how a human being feels, then you have no right to label. Period.

People when in love can easily be manipulated and are willing to believe anything. Anything ~ lies, mistruths, you name it.

Many men and women in power use it to their advantage. Tiger Woods did this. It is obvious he used his fame and power to get what he wanted. Maybe some of the women he cheated with were just looking for a good time, but maybe one of them really felt that he loved her. This does not make her a slut but a woman who has made a very bad decision and will have to live with the consequences for the rest of her life.

Now, unless you are perfect you've made a mistake or two in your life.

Lady Hefron
02-20-2010, 12:11 PM
Lady A...I'll except that.

But while we are standing in others shoes, let's take a minute to stand in the shoes of the spouse who has been cheated on.

Let's stop and think for a minute about the lady (or gentleman) who finds out that for 3 1/2 years of the 4 years they have been married that their spouse has been f'ing everything that moved. That that spouse has been sleeping with every bar rat that he/she could. Let's try to see what humiliation this person has had to endure. The gossip and laughter that has gone on behind her/his back. The pain of finding out that the fidelity that she/he practiced has been thrown back in her/his face. Oh, and the battery of tests she/he has to go for because the scumbag brought home VD. Not to mention the trust issues she/he will have to fight with the rest of her/his life. The pain of knowing that she/he is "that" person.

Lady Anisette
02-20-2010, 12:42 PM
Lady A...I'll except that.

But while we are standing in others shoes, let's take a minute to stand in the shoes of the spouse who has been cheated on.

Let's stop and think for a minute about the lady (or gentleman) who finds out that for 3 1/2 years of the 4 years they have been married that their spouse has been f'ing everything that moved. That that spouse has been sleeping with every bar rat that he/she could. Let's try to see what humiliation this person has had to endure. The gossip and laughter that has gone on behind her/his back. The pain of finding out that the fidelity that she/he practiced has been thrown back in her/his face. Oh, and the battery of tests she/he has to go for because the scumbag brought home VD. Not to mention the trust issues she/he will have to fight with the rest of her/his life. The pain of knowing that she/he is "that" person.

No one ever would deny that the spouse doesn't get hurt. Of course they get hurt and embarrassed and humiliated. That does not make the other woman a slut or anything else you wish to call her. Usually the other woman gets hurt too. The only one who often walks away unscathed is the cheating spouse. And even that is a generalization. I have seen situations where all parties are emotionally wrecked. You can't paint with a broad brush unless you truly are involved in the situation.

Is Tiger hurt? Eh, maybe though his wallet is hurting a hell of a lot more. Is his wife hurt? Hell, yes. Probably devastated. Might there be one of the many who thought he was her prince? Possibly. The porn star I doubt was in it for true love but who am I to be judge and jury.

Lady Hefron
02-20-2010, 01:20 PM
I'm going to have to bow out of this one now. I can not view it impartially, so I probably shouldn't have chimed in at all. I have too many scars from from this kind of situation (physical and emotional) to be impartial and it's dredging up old pain.

If I have hurt anyone my deepest apologies.

Selena
02-20-2010, 06:08 PM
But while we are standing in others shoes, let's take a minute to stand in the shoes of the spouse who has been cheated on.

I know, I know... you said you were bowing out of this conversation. But I'm going to throw this out there for anyone to chew upon:

Who's to say the spouse is being cheated upon to begin with?

Perhaps it's an open marriage;
Perhaps it's a separation (long term or relatively new) with the expectations and knowledge of new sexual relationships to evolve;
Perhaps it's a marriage out of either convenience or financial issues and "cheating" isn't an issue;
Perhaps it's a marriage for other legalities (ie citizenship)

Gotta admit, that's a very very broad brush you put out there.

One of my very good friends has a long-term relationship with a "married" man. He was long separated from the spouse before she even came into the picture, btw. Their marriage was very very toxic for each other.
The reason he remains married, yet separated? There's a kid involved. Oh, and did I happen to mention my slut of a friend and he have been mutually exclusive for about 5 years now?

just sayin'....


I'm not defending Tiger's actions. I'm merely pointing out that just because someone is "married", don't assume the marriage is happy, nor "traditional" or what you expect it to be.

MaidenFaeSnow
02-20-2010, 06:57 PM
To me, it's just Lady H's opinion/point of view/feeling on the situation. She's not asking anyone to agree with her so we probably shouldn't admonish her stance as unworthy or wrong. It's how she feels, and that alone is valid.

surlywench
02-21-2010, 12:25 AM
Sorry Surlz - I've no time nor sympathy for cheaters. Whether they're on a national stage or not, whether they're entitled or not, whether they're sorry or not.

That one thing is my line in the sand. YMMV.

I wasn't specifically picking on what you'd said, I was quoting b/c you summed up the sort of level of disbelief we all show when yet another celebrity expects everything to be fine once they mutter any apology - no matter how sincere (see Mel Gibson...) - I should have been more clear that I wasn't aiming it at you :(

And yes, of course mileage will vary, we're all different women. - but I still will stand by the idea that we all need second chances in life. Just because someone apologizes doesn't mean that we magically forget the hurt, nor does it mean we are automatically expected to forgive them. I would go so far to say that an apology offered with the intention of gaining forgiveness OR erasing the hurt isn't genuine at all. We should own up to our actions no matter what the end result will be - not because we're using the apology to manipulate those who where hurt by those actions.

That might not make sense, it's late, and I'm tired.

surlywench
02-21-2010, 12:36 AM
I'm sorry but any woman who messes around with a married man is, in my mind, a slut. You wait until the divorce is final....


While I understand you have strong personal feelings on this: by this definition, I am a slut. But I urge you to consider that the situation is not always so cut and dry for those involved in it. And I do mean ALL of those involved in it: myself, Chris, his (now) ex-wife, and her boyfriend.

Every relationship, marriage, seperation, etc is different. So long as all parties are honest and up front about their actions, the kind of fall-out from "cheating and lying s.o.b's" doesn't happen. But, again, your definition above doesn't leave room for those shades of grey.

Lady Laurel
02-21-2010, 01:25 AM
While I understand you have strong personal feelings on this: by this definition, I am a slut. But I urge you to consider that the situation is not always so cut and dry for those involved in it. And I do mean ALL of those involved in it: myself, Chris, his (now) ex-wife, and her boyfriend.

Every relationship, marriage, seperation, etc is different. So long as all parties are honest and up front about their actions, the kind of fall-out from "cheating and lying s.o.b's" doesn't happen. But, again, your definition above doesn't leave room for those shades of grey.


Surly yes I total agree with you on the shades of grey.