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Mistress Morigianna
04-20-2010, 02:37 AM
ok WTF?

I heard of teaching kids the basics - reading, math, etc. then let them search around and find what they are interested and learn that.

but it seems they don't start with the basics???

http://www.parentdish.com/2010/04/19/the-unschooling-movement-schools-out-forever/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl3|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parentdish.com%2F2010 %2F04%2F19%2Fthe-unschooling-movement-schools-out-forever%2F

The Unschooling Movement: School's Out ... Forever
by Tom Henderson (Subscribe to Tom Henderson's posts) Apr 19th 2010 3:42PM

Categories: Kids 5-7, Kids 8-11, Teens & Tweens, In The News, Weird But True, Education

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If she is lucky -- very lucky -- Michele Darr-Babson can get from one end of a sentence to the other uninterrupted.

Mornings in her Salem, Ore., home are slightly, shall we say, chaotic.

"We're able to give our children ... Louis! Don't stand on that!" she tells ParentDish (and Louis).

What Darr-Babson is trying to say is that unschooling -- a movement where children get no education and basically teach themselves what they need to know -- gives kids more choices. Apparently, the choice for Louis to stand on whatever "that" is, is not one of them.

Darr-Babson has 10 children in her blended family. She used to unschool most of them, and it's a good idea, she says. In theory, at least. Most of her children are in traditional school these days. That's because attending school was one of the choices they were free to make. Darr-Babson's ex-partner didn't share her enthusiasm for homeschooling.

But when unschooling works, Darr-Babson tells ParentDish, it can work magnificently.

"It enables children to focus what they're interested in," she says.

A growing number of parents are unschooling their children. ABC News reports there are 56 million American children in traditional schools, with another 1.5 million being homeschooled.

Of those, according to the network, about 10 percent are unschooled.

Unschooling is not homeschooling. In homeschooling, children get the same structure, discipline and curriculum they get at school. They just get it from their parents.

Darr-Babson explains that unschooling has no rules. It is all organic.

"It really promotes how learning is accomplishing in real life -- through experience," she tells ParentDish.

Her two oldest children, ages 18 and 20, are in Egypt. "Now that's a learning experience," she says.

But does visiting the Sphinx teach a person algebra?

Children can take care of that on their own, unschooling parent Christine Yablonski of Massachusetts tells ABC News.

"If they need formal algebra understanding, they will find that information," she tells the network.

She knows her kids will do what they need to do, she adds.

"They might watch television. They might play games on the computers. The key there is you have to trust your kids to find their own interests," she tells ABC News.

It doesn't bother her, for example, that her 15-year-old daughter Kimi Biegler stays up all night.

"She's getting everything done that she wants to get done," she tells the network.

What about Kimi? Does she feel prepared for college?

"No, not really," she tells ABC News. "I haven't done the traditional look at a textbook and learn about such and such."

When such and such becomes important, she adds, she'll study it.

"If I wanted to to go college, then I would pick up a textbook and I would learn," she tells the network.

According to the Home School Legal Defense Association, there are no laws regarding homeschooling or unschooling in Idaho, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Connecticut or New Jersey.

All you have to do in those states is notify the school district that your child won't be attending classes. There is no testing or other requirements.

The rest of the states vary in the amount of notification parents must give and how much student testing is required. Colleges can set their own requirements for the admission of homeschooled and unschooled students.

"We find that we don't need a whole lot of rules," Kimi's father, Phil Biegler, tells ABC. "They will do what they need to do whether or not they enjoy it because they see the purpose in it."

Ann Pleshette Murphy, the former editor of Parents magazine and the current parenting expert on ABC's "Good Morning America," is doubtful.

"This to me is putting way too much power in the hands of the kids -- something that we know kids actually can often find very anxiety producing," she tells ABC News.

"And it's also sending a message that they're the center of the universe, which I do not think is healthy for children."

Related: German Family Granted Political Asylum for Homeschooling Kids

Gemdrite
04-20-2010, 02:54 AM
I find it interesting that most of her children *chose* to go to school. What does that tell her? I guess the only plus side to this is that, given Mom's "kids in control" attitude, at least some teachers were spared having to deal with them. I got a child this year who came from a Montessouri school. That child is more work than the rest of my class combined. There are some days I have to send that child up to the office to work just so that my class and I can teach/learn in peace for a little while, because this child simply has no idea what proper behavior is, and there is no support from home. This "unschooling" would be soooo much worse!

Torra
04-20-2010, 08:05 AM
Hm...while the idea is interesting, I would never, ever unschool any child in my home. Homeschooling is one thing, and I can support that, but allowing your child to do whatever they want because you trust them to learn what they "need" and for the sake of an "organic learning experience" seems rather irresponsible. I can remember some things I learned in school that I thought would never be useful, but they have been. Moreover, they were useful at a point where I couldn't just say "Oh, give me a minute to research and learn about this" the way it appears these kids plan to. Sometimes you just don't know what you'll need and when you'll need it.

On the flip side, at least this gets around a common complaint I've heard from the teachers in my acquaintance: the kids aren't being taught a test, nor are good curriculum pared down because the scores on last year's test weren't good enough to warrant more money. Problems on both sides.

Phoenix McHeit
04-20-2010, 09:32 AM
I'm sure there are any number of children (girls, mainly) from underdeveloped countries who would GLADLY take an 'unschooled' kids' place in a traditional school setting. There are children and parents FIGHTING for the RIGHT to get formal education, to get actual school learning.

This 'movement' is a slap in the face to those who fight (and die) for an education.

Entitled, elitist, 'organic' bullshit. I'm appalled. :irked::shame: :censored:

Isabelle Warwicke
04-20-2010, 09:38 AM
Entitled, elitist, 'organic' bullshit. I'm appalled. :irked::shame: :censored:

They aren't going to grow up smart enough to be Elite. However, I'm certain that they have learned entitlement.

Lady Hefron
04-20-2010, 10:57 AM
Just Wow. Of the kids I know, I wouldn't trust them to know what they need to learn. God help us when these kids grow up.

Phoenix McHeit
04-20-2010, 11:23 AM
They aren't going to grow up smart enough to be Elite. However, I'm certain that they have learned entitlement.

Well, I did mean the caregivers. I can't manage to call them parents. But yes, the kids definitely have learned entitlement. That's one lesson that has stuck, definitely.

LadyH - I would ADORE to be the hiring manager that gets that resume.

Gemdrite
04-20-2010, 11:51 AM
On the flip side, at least this gets around a common complaint I've heard from the teachers in my acquaintance: the kids aren't being taught a test, nor are good curriculum pared down because the scores on last year's test weren't good enough to warrant more money. Problems on both sides.
Teaching to the test sucks, but at least it's an education. The information on the test is information you need to know for life. These kids aren't even getting that. I teach second grade, and I know exactly what my students would do if they were given a day to "learn whatever you want to." Not to mention, how did these kids learn to read? They had to be homeschooled to some degree. You can only memorize so much without knowing letter sounds, patterns, common syllables, and punctuation. And without that education, I bet their spelling and grammar is atrocious.

Also, okay, they decide they want to learn something. They go look it up. Who taught them how to use a dictionary or how to determine if something on the internet is a reliable source or not? So even if they *are* attempting to educate themselves, they may not be getting the correct information.

The 6th Rogue
04-20-2010, 12:05 PM
People like that give hippies a bad name and that takes doing. All I see is more people sucking the welfare system dry when they come of age as I read this and as for the two in Egypt...you notice it didn't say why they were there? My first thought is that they are training in terrorist camps to come back and blow their mother up.

Vyxen
04-20-2010, 12:26 PM
In light of this morning's discussion, may I offer this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

Selena
04-20-2010, 01:49 PM
"Darr-Babson explains that unschooling has no rules. It is all organic."


In the famous words of Inigo Montoya... I do not think it means what you think it means.

But hey, that's okay... your kids are on the right track to be just as ignorant, too! Good job. :aok:

The 6th Rogue
04-20-2010, 01:55 PM
When I was a kid we were given choices all the time: do what your parents tell you or get your ass whupped. Worked out just fine if you ask me.

Jamianne
04-20-2010, 02:22 PM
I've been reading and rereading this all morning and even did a Google search for "unschooling" just out of morbid curiosity. The more I read, the less I understand it. I still cannot wrap my brain around why any parent would do this. I understand encouraging your children to pursue their interests and learn more about things that interest them. But not at the expense of learning basic skills that they're going to need in life - like reading and basic math. IDK - I guess I just don't get it.

MillieWylde
04-20-2010, 03:51 PM
I understand encouraging your children to pursue their interests and learn more about things that interest them.


IMHO - this is what summer break is about. Three seasons to either homeschool or attend school, to learn the things kids aren't necessarily interested in but might come in handy at surprising moments - and one season (the best one for being outdoors, in most parts of the country) for learning about whatever the heck they want to... including what happens when they tell Mom they're bored for the Nth time in one day. :flamed: (I learned not to do that pretty quickly!) :snicker:

Torra
04-20-2010, 04:20 PM
I've been reading and rereading this all morning and even did a Google search for "unschooling" just out of morbid curiosity. The more I read, the less I understand it. I still cannot wrap my brain around why any parent would do this. I understand encouraging your children to pursue their interests and learn more about things that interest them. But not at the expense of learning basic skills that they're going to need in life - like reading and basic math. IDK - I guess I just don't get it.

See, this just means you're like all us other "oppressive" folks. I wouldn't be one iota surprised if these are the same parents who think I should let their kids draw on my walls with fecal matter because it's their "creative process" and I can't "stifle" them. Slight exaggeration, but I think we all know parents who think no one should ever discipline their children or expect anything whatsoever of them.

Gem, you're right, the test does provide basic skills. The laments I were think of were more along the lines of "we're not getting the students enough information or a diverse education" and that quality of education is being sacrificed for the sake of the test grade. Actual understanding being replaced by rote memorization.

It's amazing that some of these kids elect to go into public schools! I wonder what gave them the wake-up call...pretty sure it wasn't Mom or Dad...

Gemdrite
04-20-2010, 07:48 PM
Gem, you're right, the test does provide basic skills. The laments I were think of were more along the lines of "we're not getting the students enough information or a diverse education" and that quality of education is being sacrificed for the sake of the test grade. Actual understanding being replaced by rote memorization.
Oh, I get that. I just meant, compared to "unschooling," I would prefer even just teaching to the test. And that's saying something, cause I HATE WITH A PASSION teaching to the test.

Zoie La Belle
05-06-2010, 01:50 PM
Entitled, elitist, 'organic' bullshit. I'm appalled. :irked::shame: :censored:

Agreed.

Hummm I wonder if I can "unwork" myself. As in... I don't wanna go to work to day, I'm going to make all my own choices and stay home, in a bubble bath, with music, and mead... ::cloud9:: Oh... yeah. Bills. :mmph: Guess not.

Laurensa
05-06-2010, 08:38 PM
[quote=Gemdrite;391344]\ You can only memorize so much without knowing letter sounds, patterns, common syllables, and punctuation. And without that education, I bet their spelling and grammar is atrocious.

But don't you know? Proper spelling and grammar are elitist! No one cares about that any more!

Srsly--I know exactly how much my kids would learn if they were unschooled. They'd learn how to win battles in Free Realms and what's on Adult Swim at night. Not terribly useful...::badhair:

Adriana Rose
05-06-2010, 10:10 PM
My sister used to nanny for this lady who thought that to inforce rules on her kids would crush their creativity. She would let her kid who was 4 at the time set her own bedtime and the kid would stay up till 3 or 4am. There was no sending the kid to public schools because the man might turn her into some sort of drone. 0_o

All I can do is hope that the nutter idea doesnt catch on