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Bean
09-07-2010, 08:07 PM
So, what do we do with the asshat in Florida who wants to burn copies of the Quran on 9/11?

BronxGirl
09-07-2010, 08:33 PM
My first thought is to ignore him but I don't think that is going to work in this situation. Honestly, I'm not sure what should be done.

LdyJhawk
09-07-2010, 10:18 PM
To protest the ignorance and oppression of Islam..we're going to be ignorant and oppressive! BRILLIANT!

Seriously, someone sat in a chair, thought that up and went, "oh shit, we have to make this happen!"

*sigh* People suck

Isabelle Fawkes
09-07-2010, 11:00 PM
So, what do we do with the asshat in Florida who wants to burn copies of the Quran on 9/11?

Toss in a few copies of the Bible and have a wienie roast?!? Or maybe marshmallows would be better?????

Ysobelle
09-08-2010, 02:50 AM
Whatever anyone else does in the name of peace and tolerance, it has to be just as loud, just as obvious. But you know a peaceful demonstration isn't going to make the news in the Middle East, in Pakistan, in Indonesia, in India. All they're going to see is one horrible racist fuck burning their holy book. All they're going to say is, "See? They really DO hate us."

What do you want to bet this is a guy who'd be the first in line to raise hell if someone burned the US flag?

The 6th Rogue
09-08-2010, 10:50 AM
Don't worry. I'm sure someone with a bomb vest and a van full of fertilizer will show up and earn his 72 virgins that day.

Emmaline Love
09-08-2010, 11:32 AM
how sad is it that I only heard about this issue now from watching the view??? Seriously, the most important story on the news here is the corn harvest...

hey 6th, maybe we should test out that weaponized marijuana on this guy first, that way he wont want to get off the couch to do anything

Margaret
09-08-2010, 11:49 AM
how sad is it that I only heard about this issue now from watching the view??? Seriously, the most important story on the news here is the corn harvest...



Actually - I think it's a good thing that you had not heard about it until now. If the media would not cover his shenanigans, there would not be any concern about this.

Kae
09-08-2010, 01:26 PM
I found the following two sites interesting. We ignored the book burnings in Germany and look what happened. Could we actually blame the Islamic population for being highly concerned when we are following in Hitler's footsteps?

I wouldn't and that is why I am scared. What will happen next?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39048161/ns/us_news-security





http://atheism.about.com/od/weeklyquotes/a/heine01.htm


Kae

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-08-2010, 07:36 PM
So, what do we do with the asshat in Florida who wants to burn copies of the Quran on 9/11?

Thank him for the opportunity to demonstrate the greatness of our country by showing that even a hate-mongering shitstain such as himself is afforded the freedom of expression that we all hold so dear and take so for granted.

Thistle
09-09-2010, 05:33 AM
If they go ballistic in Afghanistan and up the casualties of US soldiers there, I think the families of every soldier lost should sue the "pastor" and his "church" for every penny they have. Heck, make it a murder charge, and throw the whole bunch of them at Sparky! This jerk is only going to get people killed

Kit
09-09-2010, 08:58 AM
Thank him for the opportunity to demonstrate the greatness of our country by showing that even a hate-mongering shitstain such as himself is afforded the freedom of expression that we all hold so dear and take so for granted.

I must say I agree with Cyranno here, we can't pick and choose who is allowed to use their rights of free expression and who is not or we end up having even worse censorship in our country (because we already know there is some censorship). We end up on a slippery slope and start loosing our freedoms bit by bit as one group tells another what they can and can not say or do. Unfortunately this means we have to let people preach ugly uninformed messages to the masses and just hope that common sense will keep their disease of hate from spreading. Freedom is, at times, a double edge sword.

LdyJhawk
09-09-2010, 10:42 AM
I must say I agree with Cyranno here, we can't pick and choose who is allowed to use their rights of free expression and who is not or we end up having even worse censorship in our country (because we already know there is some censorship). We end up on a slippery slope and start loosing our freedoms bit by bit as one group tells another what they can and can not say or do. Unfortunately this means we have to let people preach ugly uninformed messages to the masses and just hope that common sense will keep their disease of hate from spreading. Freedom is, at times, a double edge sword.


While this is true, it is right and proper for the population to stand up and say "hey this is wrong and we don't agree!". People have the freedom of expression but that doesn't mean we aren't supposed to use common sense to determine if our free speech will lead to imminent danger and harm for others.

People can and have been convicted for inciting violence, and if that is the result here I'd think this gentleman should be charged as well

Gemdrite
09-09-2010, 10:48 AM
While this is true, it is right and proper for the population to stand up and say "hey this is wrong and we don't agree!". People have the freedom of expression but that doesn't mean we aren't supposed to use common sense to determine if our free speech will lead to imminent danger and harm for others.

People can and have been convicted for inciting violence, and if that is the result here I'd think this gentleman should be charged as well
Agreed. The other thing to remember is that it is our *government* who has to allow the guy to be an idiot. The rest of us can censure him all we want. That's part of *our* free speech. :D

Azura
09-09-2010, 05:16 PM
I must say I agree with Cyranno here, we can't pick and choose who is allowed to use their rights of free expression and who is not or we end up having even worse censorship in our country (because we already know there is some censorship). We end up on a slippery slope and start loosing our freedoms bit by bit as one group tells another what they can and can not say or do. Unfortunately this means we have to let people preach ugly uninformed messages to the masses and just hope that common sense will keep their disease of hate from spreading. Freedom is, at times, a double edge sword.

I also have to disagree here. One dickweed is not worth the lives of our soldiers and our civilians. I think he ought to be allowed to say whatever he likes even if I abhor what is he has to say, but an action like that is going to get a lot of innocent people killed.

RaevynCait
09-09-2010, 07:48 PM
Well, it seems it's been cancelled, now.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129757882&sc=fb&cc=fp

BronxGirl
09-09-2010, 08:24 PM
Now I've heard that it is 'postponed'.

Lady Dee Va
09-09-2010, 10:22 PM
While this is true, it is right and proper for the population to stand up and say "hey this is wrong and we don't agree!". People have the freedom of expression but that doesn't mean we aren't supposed to use common sense to determine if our free speech will lead to imminent danger and harm for others.

People can and have been convicted for inciting violence, and if that is the result here I'd think this gentleman should be charged as well

But when people all get together and stand up and say something is wrong it is usually followed by things like "burn the witch" and other hate based crimes. :yuck: seriously it is a book and people need to just turn their back on this guy and say we don't care. If the media wouldn't cover it people wouldn't know or care about this idiot.:shame:

I must point out though that I am happy as can be that the event is canceled, but go back and see how many people said that the "cultural center"/mosque has every right to be there they should be saying that this guy can burn whatever book he wants as long as they are his to burn. Just saying it is the same thing.

LdyJhawk
09-09-2010, 11:05 PM
But when people all get together and stand up and say something is wrong it is usually followed by things like "burn the witch" and other hate based crimes. :yuck: seriously it is a book and people need to just turn their back on this guy and say we don't care. If the media wouldn't cover it people wouldn't know or care about this idiot.:shame:

I must point out though that I am happy as can be that the event is canceled, but go back and see how many people said that the "cultural center"/mosque has every right to be there they should be saying that this guy can burn whatever book he wants as long as they are his to burn. Just saying it is the same thing.

Not one person has said he CAN'T burn that book. What they're saying is that he is wrong in doing so. The cultural center has no legal or moral reason why it shouldn't be where it is. Burning a holy book..hell burning ANY book is absolutely abhorrent.

Also? Bringing up witch burning in this is sort of disingenuous as most of the primary fuel behind the witchcraft accusations of the era were due to socio-political and land related disputes and not due to religious fear

Lady Sarah
09-10-2010, 12:10 AM
Dude....

Jhawk is hawt when she's spearing Teh Newbs. Can someone catch me up with her on the Reps?

LdyJhawk
09-10-2010, 12:15 AM
Dude....

Jhawk is hawt when she's spearing Teh Newbs. Can someone catch me up with her on the Reps?

Why thank you!

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-10-2010, 01:04 AM
I must point out though that I am happy as can be that the event is canceled, but go back and see how many people said that the "cultural center"/mosque has every right to be there they should be saying that this guy can burn whatever book he wants as long as they are his to burn. Just saying it is the same thing.

You're new, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you intended for the similarities between the book burning and the building of a community center to begin and end with "things people have a right to do".

Drawing a comparison on any other level would be, ummmm.... unfortunate.

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-10-2010, 01:12 AM
Here's the thing. One of Osama Bin Laden's and Al Queda's primary strategic goals is to drive a wedge between the West and the Islamic world. They would like nothing more than to frame the discussion in terms of a struggle against the infidels who hate Islam.

When dipshits like this cult leader burns the Koran, or even just threatens to do so, he is playing directly into the hands of our enemies. He is arming them with propaganda that they can use to sway otherwise moderate muslims towards their cause. They'll just add video of this nutjob to their recruitment videos and say, "See! The west, they really do hate us!"

I think it was General Petraeus who said that this war against terror can not be won with bullets alone. It can only be won by also winning the hearts and minds of the people of the Islamic world, thus taking away the base of the terrorists power. If you want to lose the hearts and minds of the people of the Islamic world, the quickest way to do that would be by burning their holy texts.

This guy, and to a lesser extent the people spreading bile and vitriol over the Park51 community center, through their actions they are providing material support to our enemies in a time of war.


There's a word for that.

Phoenix McHeit
09-10-2010, 07:42 AM
Dude....

Jhawk is hawt when she's spearing Teh Newbs. Can someone catch me up with her on the Reps?

Crap. I tried, but evidently it's a no-go for me, too. Dangit.

Phoenix McHeit
09-10-2010, 07:44 AM
This guy, and to a lesser extent the people spreading bile and vitriol over the Park51 community center, through their actions they are providing material support to our enemies in a time of war.


There's a word for that.

*flutter* Ye gawds I love smart men.

Lady Dee Va
09-10-2010, 01:21 PM
Look I am just say that it is his right to what he wants with his possessions and if he wants to burn something then whatever. I just hate the fact that the media is covering this bull. Look it up on youtube people burn the quran and Bibles all the time and before this nut job got on tv.

And as far as people getting together and saying things that can turn into mob rule and I for one am against that. Just because one group of people say something is wrong doesn't mean they can impose their desires on another person. I don't think any of us would like to face the way some nations make their women dress covered from head to toe (just one example of how a group of people can make the rest of us miserable)

Unfortunately having rights the way we do sometimes brings out the idiots who do things just because they can.

LdyJhawk
09-10-2010, 02:07 PM
Look I am just say that it is his right to what he wants with his possessions and if he wants to burn something then whatever. I just hate the fact that the media is covering this bull. Look it up on youtube people burn the quran and Bibles all the time and before this nut job got on tv.

And as far as people getting together and saying things that can turn into mob rule and I for one am against that. Just because one group of people say something is wrong doesn't mean they can impose their desires on another person. I don't think any of us would like to face the way some nations make their women dress covered from head to toe (just one example of how a group of people can make the rest of us miserable)

Unfortunately having rights the way we do sometimes brings out the idiots who do things just because they can.

I'm sorry, do you read what you write? Before you post it, I mean.

The media is covering this "bull" because this man is exercising his right to free expression in a way that is directly antagonistic to crazy people with guns. See, those are the people we need to worry about. Not "the muslims"..the CRAZY PEOPLE. Poking crazy people with sticks in a way that will, in fact, goad them into killing more people? That definitely needs to be covered. Now should we always worry that what we're doing might upset a crazy person? No, my shorts probably upset lots of crazy people.. but guess what? Most of THOSE crazy people aren't in a position to kill thousands of innocent soldiers and civilians. OK, now that we have that cleared up.

The media covered it when people were threatening to burn other books because in its nature, burning books is a Very Bad Thing(tm) because all it does is instill a sense that written words are to be feared and shunned if one doesn't agree with them. Just because OTHER people have burned books and didn't get a finger shaken at them doesn't mean that we can't do it this time. THIS guy is deliberately attempting (or was, who knows) to make a media event out of this by turning it into some party. As a people we have the responsibility to stand up, point out what he is doing is wrong and WHY it's wrong and say, "we will not stand idly by while someone does something that is wrong."

You seem to be missing the point that no one here is saying, "oh jesus he CAN'T DO THAT!". He can and has every right to. Just as I have every right to point out that he is a disgusting, grandstanding cult leader who should be publicly shunned by anyone with common sense.

Ysobelle
09-10-2010, 02:31 PM
I don't think any of us would like to face the way some nations make their women dress covered from head to toe (just one example of how a group of people can make the rest of us miserable)




Us? I'm sorry, but the wearing of burqas in the Middle East doesn't affect me at all. The wearing of them here in Philly-- which many women do-- doesn't bother me. Some asshole makes a point of inflaming in countries where terrorists breed? THEN I have a problem, especially as my countrymen and women are currently there trying to build some fragile beginnings of peace.

If you're going to make a comparison, at least make it relevant.

Gemdrite
09-10-2010, 09:51 PM
The media is covering this "bull" because this man is exercising his right to free expression in a way that is directly antagonistic to crazy people with guns.
Thing is, if the media wasn't covering it, how would anybody know what he was doing? The only reason I know what this moron is doing is because the media is covering it. I would imagine that's true for most of the United States, and the world. If the media had ignored the asshat, the only people who'd know about it would be his church. And just because he's an asshat doesn't mean his church agrees with him.

LdyJhawk
09-10-2010, 10:16 PM
Thing is, if the media wasn't covering it, how would anybody know what he was doing? The only reason I know what this moron is doing is because the media is covering it. I would imagine that's true for most of the United States, and the world. If the media had ignored the asshat, the only people who'd know about it would be his church. And just because he's an asshat doesn't mean his church agrees with him.

Websites, actually. He had one set up for this and it was being pushed around the web before news outlets even covered it

Gemdrite
09-10-2010, 10:23 PM
Websites, actually. He had one set up for this and it was being pushed around the web before news outlets even covered it
Is there any information to say how far his website reached, how many people accessed it, before the media picked it up?

LdyJhawk
09-10-2010, 10:28 PM
Is there any information to say how far his website reached, how many people accessed it, before the media picked it up?

I'm sure there is somewhere. It's already been reported that his website is what first caught the attention and brought the crazies out to scream and protest overseas though. People underestimate the desire that these groups have to find reasons to fuel their hatred...many of them keep watch just to make sure that nothing slips by their notice

Gemdrite
09-10-2010, 10:38 PM
I'm sure there is somewhere. It's already been reported that his website is what first caught the attention and brought the crazies out to scream and protest overseas though. People underestimate the desire that these groups have to find reasons to fuel their hatred...many of them keep watch just to make sure that nothing slips by their notice
If you happen to remember where you saw that, I'd like to read that article. I have plenty of experience with the ability of people to find the reasons to back up their hatred (I have lovely family members who do that frequently) but I'd be curious to read how this all started. I haven't read anything like that, but, I haven't really done a whole lot of research on it either.

LdyJhawk
09-10-2010, 10:49 PM
If you happen to remember where you saw that, I'd like to read that article. I have plenty of experience with the ability of people to find the reasons to back up their hatred (I have lovely family members who do that frequently) but I'd be curious to read how this all started. I haven't read anything like that, but, I haven't really done a whole lot of research on it either.

Funny enough, it even came down to the guy's web hosting service pulling the site down. Unfortunately, we can't simply bury our heads in the sand and pretend this stuff doesn't happen. On one hand, it does get the person media attention which no one likes but on the other hand it gets the attention of the population so we can all turn around and give the guy a good, old fashioned shaming :P

It's rather like Westboro. No one likes them to get media coverage but strangely when they DO, usually what comes of it is an outcry and public swell of action to counter their hatred and actions

Cyranno DeBoberac
09-10-2010, 10:53 PM
If you happen to remember where you saw that, I'd like to read that article. I have plenty of experience with the ability of people to find the reasons to back up their hatred (I have lovely family members who do that frequently) but I'd be curious to read how this all started. I haven't read anything like that, but, I haven't really done a whole lot of research on it either.

So far, I've been able to find this:

http://www.salon.com/news/islam/index.html?story=/politics/war_room/2010/09/10/terry_jones_koran_burn_timeline


When Gen. David Petraeus first spoke out against Pastor Terry Jones' planned Quran burning in a Wall Street Journal article published Monday [September 6th] , the story exploded in the U.S. media, going from a sideshow to the dominant national media controversy of the week.

[...]

To grasp the real story here, one has to understand the context in which Petraeus decided to weigh in: At that time, the Quran burning had already been treated as a major story in the media in the Muslim world for several weeks. In other words, since at least late July, when it started to get attention in some Muslim-majority countries, the story has been doing untold damage to America's reputation.

"It was a big issue over in the Arab media before U.S. media picked it up," Marc Lynch, director of Institute for Middle East Studies at George Washington University, told Salon in an e-mail.

Lynch said that the first story in his files on the Quran burning is this July 28 report (http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2010/07/28/115107.html) from the Saudi TV station al-Arabiya. That in turn "generated discussion on jihadist forums and other media outlets way back then," Lynch said.

[...]

Here is Carlstrom's back-of-the-envelope timeline of how the story bounced around the media in the Muslim world in the past few weeks:

It really started getting coverage in early August, mostly in newspapers in Gulf countries -- they ran stories with condemnations from CAIR [the Council on American-Islamic Relations].

Al-Azhar University (Sunni institution in Cairo, closest there is to a "Sunni Vatican," though that's a loose analogy) condemned it in mid-August -- around the 10th or 11th -- accused the church of trying to incite hatred and violence. That's when it really started to snowball: the Azhar condemnation got a lot of media attention, columnists started speculating about the implications of the event, etc. The Muslim World League denounced it a few days later.

It also started getting attention in the US around that time -- interfaith groups condemned it, stuff like that -- and many of those initiatives made some headlines in the Arabic press. And then in late August we had some protests in Indonesia, those got headlines in the Arabic press.

I don't remember exactly when I first saw it on Arab satellite news, but I know Al-Jazeera was talking about it last month, linking it to the "Ground Zero mosque" story -- it got mentioned in some coverage of Obama's iftar remarks (basically, "Obama defended the mosque, did so at a time of rising anti-Muslim sentiment, like this pastor in Florida who's planning to burn Qur'ans...").

Gemdrite
09-10-2010, 11:02 PM
So it's not American media that blew it this time, it's the Arab media!

Seriously though, that blows. And you know this "pastor" would be the first to whine if a Muslim Imam (? not sure if that's the equivalent of a pastor or not) had a bible burning party.

My brain is having a hard time even computing the level of stupidity this man is emitting.

LdyJhawk
09-10-2010, 11:12 PM
So it's not American media that blew it this time, it's the Arab media!

Seriously though, that blows. And you know this "pastor" would be the first to whine if a Muslim Imam (? not sure if that's the equivalent of a pastor or not) had a bible burning party.

My brain is having a hard time even computing the level of stupidity this man is emitting.

Hell, the fact that he feels he needs to do this in order to show them how disrespectful building a "mosque" near Ground Zero is should be a giant flaming sign to indicate how ignorant he is :P

Gemdrite
09-10-2010, 11:22 PM
Hell, the fact that he feels he needs to do this in order to show them how disrespectful building a "mosque" near Ground Zero is should be a giant flaming sign to indicate how ignorant he is :P
Yeah, I was including that, lol. Being disrespectful to show how someone else is being disrespectful...really? *sigh* But I think this is part of the reason so many idiots are able to do what they do without as much outrage from normal society. It's almost numbing, how many morons there are. If we get outraged every time an idiot makes us as Americans look bad, we'd do nothing else but be outraged. It gets harder and harder to do more than just sigh and shake your head.

Ysobelle
09-11-2010, 03:44 AM
And in his speech today-- yesterday, now-- the President specifically said that we can't ignore or discount these things in the age of the internet. If we had all ignored this guy, THAT would have been the story: He burned the Qur'an, and no one batted en eye.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the national outcry over this execrable toad will convince the Muslim world that not all of us think as he does. Perhaps.

The 6th Rogue
09-12-2010, 08:48 PM
Being disrespectful to show how someone else is being disrespectful...really?

Is that like being a moron to show someone else their being a moron?

Roberto Phoenix
09-13-2010, 11:24 PM
And here come the copycats. Seriously don't people have anything better to do with their lives?
http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=23242

An atheist lawyer from Queensland has posted a video of himself on YouTube, showing him tearing pages off the Bible and the Koran and burning them.
The Courier-Mail reports that in the video, Alex Stewart from Brisbane tears pages from both books and rolls them up like a marijuana joint, appearing to smoke them.
Mr Stewart says they're just books, and if people are getting so upset over a book then they're taking life way too seriously, said an AAP report in the Sydney Morning Herald.
Meanwhile, a Johannesburg court has blocked a South African businessman from holding a "Burn the Bible Day" in response to a Florida pastor's threat to burn the Koran.

LdyJhawk
09-13-2010, 11:55 PM
Goddamnit people...you don't burn books. end of story

Ysobelle
09-14-2010, 12:19 AM
I dunno-- I have some here for which I swear, that might just be a merciful end. The one where the protagonist's a wooly mammoth? Yeah. Not so much.

daBaroness
09-14-2010, 04:09 AM
Goddamnit people...you don't burn books. end of story

What she said - without the GDit. ;-)