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View Full Version : Why is Lane Bryant better than Victoria's Secret?



SpeedKnight
10-20-2010, 09:03 AM
This is why!




http://assets.charmingshoppes.com/is/image/LaneBryant/55955_OUTFIT?%24product_main%24&wid=290&hei=377

DoņaNina
10-20-2010, 10:14 AM
This is why!




http://assets.charmingshoppes.com/is/image/LaneBryant/55955_OUTFIT?%24product_main%24&wid=290&hei=377

Ewww.. pink. ;-)

AnnaFaerie
10-20-2010, 10:37 AM
Real women.

Ysobelle
10-20-2010, 11:28 AM
Thin women are real women, too. So are women in wheelchairs, missing limbs, women who are 6'3", women who are 5'0", blondes, redheads, women with no hair at all, women with kids, without kids, women who love men, women who love women, women with great jobs, women whose jobs suck. If we're going to stand up for "real women" and say, "They come in all shapes and sizes!", then we have to say a woman who's 5'9" and 115 pounds is just as real as one who's 5'2" and 200 pounds.

Margaret
10-20-2010, 11:54 AM
Where's the *like* button for Yso's post?

SpeedKnight
10-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Ewww.. pink. ;-)

I personally think it'd look better in purple, but the model pulls off the pink very well. Raised my eyebrows.


Thin women are real women, too. So are women in wheelchairs, missing limbs, women who are 6'3", women who are 5'0", blondes, redheads, women with no hair at all, women with kids, without kids, women who love men, women who love women, women with great jobs, women whose jobs suck. If we're going to stand up for "real women" and say, "They come in all shapes and sizes!", then we have to say a woman who's 5'9" and 115 pounds is just as real as one who's 5'2" and 200 pounds.

DAMMIT! I forgot my disclaimer.
Look... everyone here should know me well enough to know that I meant no disrespect to any woman. Every woman is beautiful in some way or another. I fully agree that a 5'9" 115pound woman is as real as a 5'2" 200 pound woman.
The point to my post is to say I applaud Lane Bryant, and it's models, for not being concerned with the "she's too big to be sexy" BS that runs rampant in society today.
A real woman isn't based on her physical attributes. It based on her ability to be happy with herself.
Maybe I'm not even allowed to say that given: A) I'm not a woman, and B) I've never really had esteem issues.

The 6th Rogue
10-20-2010, 02:09 PM
Thin women are real women, too. So are women in wheelchairs, missing limbs, women who are 6'3", women who are 5'0", blondes, redheads, women with no hair at all, women with kids, without kids, women who love men, women who love women, women with great jobs, women whose jobs suck. If we're going to stand up for "real women" and say, "They come in all shapes and sizes!", then we have to say a woman who's 5'9" and 115 pounds is just as real as one who's 5'2" and 200 pounds.

QFE FTW!

As a Rogue I feel compelled to add: "I'll take one of each, please."

Gemdrite
10-20-2010, 02:51 PM
Thin women are real women, too. So are women in wheelchairs, missing limbs, women who are 6'3", women who are 5'0", blondes, redheads, women with no hair at all, women with kids, without kids, women who love men, women who love women, women with great jobs, women whose jobs suck. If we're going to stand up for "real women" and say, "They come in all shapes and sizes!", then we have to say a woman who's 5'9" and 115 pounds is just as real as one who's 5'2" and 200 pounds.
This is true, but the women in most magazines aren't real women. They started out that way, and then the photo editors got a hold of them, and now they are pictures of what used to be real women, before photoshop nipped and tucked them into something that doesn't even look realistic anymore. And while I don't think Lane Bryant is exempt from this, I do think that at least after all the photoshopping, they *still* look realistic.

Azura
10-20-2010, 03:37 PM
"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Ysobelle again."

Noooo! Yso, why you be so smart all the time?

Margaret
10-20-2010, 04:40 PM
This is true, but the women in most magazines aren't real women. They started out that way, and then the photo editors got a hold of them, and now they are pictures of what used to be real women, before photoshop nipped and tucked them into something that doesn't even look realistic anymore. And while I don't think Lane Bryant is exempt from this, I do think that at least after all the photoshopping, they *still* look realistic.

While that statement is true, it is usually the norm around here to jump on the "skinny bitches" bandwagon.

daBaroness
10-20-2010, 05:17 PM
I, too applaud Lane Bryant - not only for using real plus-sized models, but for making half-way stylish clothes in sizes for real plus-sized women. I don't hold anything against women who are healthy, happy and self-assured, no matter their size. I do hold the entire fashion industry accountable for at least some of the negative repercussions against women of all sizes. They fashion industry has set a nearly-impossible standard of female, western-culture beauty that few can meet. We've all heard about emaciated models fainting on the runway because of literally starving themselves to keep a job. Likewise, I doubt there is a plus-sized woman alive who hasn't been the subject of someone else's ridicule or scorn.

I WISH our standard of beauty was judged on real attributes rather than good genes or the ability to starve ones' self. As SK said, verve, attitude, charm, intelligence, grace, kindness, warmth, strength of will, courage, faith - these are all much better standards upon which to judge a person as beautiful. Wouldst that beauty be a woman who is healthy, well-nourished in body, mind and spirit rather than an impossible size.

Caitriona
10-20-2010, 08:16 PM
Ummm.. I'm sorry. Just because they make clothes for plus sized women doesn't make them any better than Vicki's. I for one can not shop there. they don't make anything in my size (besides shoes).

So tell me EXACTLY how are they better than Vicki's where I can shop?

RedFox
10-20-2010, 08:21 PM
Ummm.. I'm sorry. Just because they make clothes for plus sized women doesn't make them any better than Vicki's. I for one can not shop there. they don't make anything in my size (besides shoes).

So tell me EXACTLY how are they better than Vicki's where I can shop?

This is more geared towards how Lane Bryant chose to advertise my dear. I can't buy anything from Lane Bryant - no matter how cute I think something is. And I, like you, shop at Vicky's. However Victoria Secret doesn't advertise with anything remotely close to a "plus sized" model even though they do carry things (mainly bras IF they have one) that can fit these women. We live in a world where the media and society is telling women that they HAVE to be thin, they HAVE to be a 00, they HAVE to look practically anorexic to be beautiful. That is not the case. A woman doesn't have to be what societal and the "cultural norms" of society tell her to be - she is beautiful no matter what color, shape, or size she may be. And Lane Bryant has no problem displaying that in their ads and in their choice of models.

Caitriona
10-20-2010, 08:29 PM
I totes agree with the whole media influencing women isn't a good thing, however, being one with eating disorders not all of us can blame the media. I know that mine was brought on as being the one thing in my life I could control and a mother who called me fat at a size 3.

With that being said, yes I believe that every woman should love her body as it is, however SK posted that this was WHY LB was better than VS. For me I see that LB picture and want to go purge my dinner.

RedFox
10-20-2010, 08:40 PM
I totes agree with the whole media influencing women isn't a good thing, however, being one with eating disorders not all of us can blame the media. I know that mine was brought on as being the one thing in my life I could control and a mother who called me fat at a size 3.

With that being said, yes I believe that every woman should love her body as it is, however SK posted that this was WHY LB was better than VS. For me I see that LB picture and want to go purge my dinner.

I have 3 responses to this post

(1)*hugs*
(2)*Hugs*
(3)*HUGS*
::bighug::

You've suffered what a lot of women have (including myself) which is considered the blame of society. I call it that anyway. Society believes, much like the media, that a woman should be a specific way. And there are so few exceptions - though I think the number of exceptions is starting to grow. I'm sorry the add made you feel that way love, really I am. But personally I still have to give props to LB for doing it >><< But still lots of hugs to you. I know what you're going through - I've been down that road myself and it never really goes away. For that I'm sorry but know you're loved. :)

LdyJhawk
10-20-2010, 09:08 PM
Yeah the real women thing gets old but honestly you can't blame a marginalized societal group for trying to reclaim their "womanhood" after being told for years that unless you conform to the perfect standard of thin you fail at being feminine or "real"

daBaroness
10-20-2010, 10:43 PM
Actually - I like Catherine's better than Lane Bryant - although I have found luck with LB bras - no simple task. Why, oh why, can't someone start a fashion company for plus-size and other "difficult-to-fit" women that would make fashionable, semi-trendy but mostly classic, AFFORDABLE clothing? I get that it takes more fabric to make larger clothes, but really - charging that $3-5 extra for anything over large seems crazy. And for current stores that cater to bigger people - the prices are insanely higher than for "normal" people (whatever the heck that is).

I'm also aware that small and thin people often have an equally-difficult time finding clothing that fits in a reasonable price range. One of my best friends is petite - especially her feet. She has a major hard time finding grown-up shoes with her child-sized feet and when she does - the price is nutso.

And tall people ... I know plenty of tall, beautiful women (Phee comes to mind, as well as my 6'2" niece) who feel like they're wearing flood pants or capri's when trying to find a decent pair of dressy slacks.

And let's not forget my all-time favorite - pantyhose! The size charts on the package are absolutely no help. No wonder so many women have forsaken hosiery all together. I'm sorry - bare legs are just not a good look on so many women, plus what do you do in the winter and how do you keep your sweaty bare feet from ruining your pumps?

OK - I'm stopping - this is becoming tangental ... Guess that's why I sew, knit and crochet.

Gemdrite
10-20-2010, 11:00 PM
And let's not forget my all-time favorite - pantyhose! The size charts on the package are absolutely no help. No wonder so many women have forsaken hosiery all together. I'm sorry - bare legs are just not a good look on so many women, plus what do you do in the winter and how do you keep your sweaty bare feet from ruining your pumps?
I refuse to wear pantyhose anymore. If I can get away with it, I'll wear knee-high or thigh-high nylons, and if I can't, they make these lovely little socks now that you can wear inside all kinds of shoes, including dress shoes, that aren't noticeable. I own several pairs of those now for my Sketcher mary jane sneaker type shoes. I love them! And I'm fat and I know, so "looking good" in something is pretty much irrelevant at this point. Why should my bare legs be any different? I just shoot for comfort now.

SpeedKnight
10-21-2010, 01:05 AM
I totes agree with the whole media influencing women isn't a good thing, however, being one with eating disorders not all of us can blame the media. I know that mine was brought on as being the one thing in my life I could control and a mother who called me fat at a size 3.

1) What was it that made you feel you needed so much control over this one thing that you were willing to harm yourself for it? My bet is the desire to meet a societal norm that is heavily influenced buy the media.
2) Take no offense to this, but your mother is a wretched woman. If my wife were to ever demean my daughter in such a way, it'd be on.


With that being said, yes I believe that every woman should love her body as it is, however SK posted that this was WHY LB was better than VS. For me I see that LB picture and want to go purge my dinner.

I feel I'm not communicating with you so well.
A) I will quote, again, what you just pointed out... "every woman should love her body as it is."
B) And then I will quote myself... "The point to my post is to say I applaud Lane Bryant, and it's models, for not being concerned with the "she's too big to be sexy" BS that runs rampant in society today."

In other words, LB is better than Vicky's because LB uses models that are outside of the social standards. And where I'd bet even LB is using some photgraphic doctoring, the sheer fact remains that the women you see in LB ads seem happy in their own skin. THAT makes them beautiful.

rosefaeries
10-21-2010, 01:31 AM
Actually - I like Catherine's better than Lane Bryant - although I have found luck with LB bras - no simple task. Why, oh why, can't someone start a fashion company for plus-size and other "difficult-to-fit" women that would make fashionable, semi-trendy but mostly classic, AFFORDABLE clothing? I get that it takes more fabric to make larger clothes, but really - charging that $3-5 extra for anything over large seems crazy. And for current stores that cater to bigger people - the prices are insanely higher than for "normal" people (whatever the heck that is).



When I was still sewing clothing to sell at Saturday Market, I discovered something interesting. For the most part, it took the same amount of yardage to make a petticoat, peasant blouse, or a pair of bloomers in a plus size as it did for the so-called "normal" sizes. I just had more scraps when I made the"normal" sizes.

Yes it takes a bit more fabric to make the larger sizes, bit not that much as a general rule. Depending on the size and the width of the fabric , there will be exceptions. But as a general rule, I used the same amount of fabric for one as I did for the other.

I don't really buy that there is more fabric involved so it costs more argument is valid all the time. (or even most of the time)

Caitriona
10-21-2010, 08:59 AM
1) What was it that made you feel you needed so much control over this one thing that you were willing to harm yourself for it? My bet is the desire to meet a societal norm that is heavily influenced buy the media.
2) Take no offense to this, but your mother is a wretched woman. If my wife were to ever demean my daughter in such a way, it'd be on.


On point 1 you would be quite wrong. Very wrong. It wasn't so much making sure I could fit into a 1 or looking like the 15 yo in the catalogue as it was something much much deeper. There are other reasons for eating disorders other than media influence..

On point 2 it was her own way of dealing with things.. She too had her own issues. But that's a moot point at least for the last 10 years.



I feel I'm not communicating with you so well.
A) I will quote, again, what you just pointed out... "every woman should love her body as it is."
B) And then I will quote myself... "The point to my post is to say I applaud Lane Bryant, and it's models, for not being concerned with the "she's too big to be sexy" BS that runs rampant in society today."

In other words, LB is better than Vicky's because LB uses models that are outside of the social standards. And where I'd bet even LB is using some photgraphic doctoring, the sheer fact remains that the women you see in LB ads seem happy in their own skin. THAT makes them beautiful.

But it doesn't run rampant in society, not as much as one thinks anymore.. yes companies are still "photoshopping" thier models. Most of them don't look like that IRL. And why are they doing that? Because it makes their clothes or their products look better. Do you want to see an odd shadow or that she has VPL? No, I know I don't. Nor do I want to see her cellulite or if she has a bump of back fat where the bra cuts in. Smooth lines are more visually appealling. I'd even say your LB pic was modified to smooth out her skin, cut some "extra" weight or even shadow her to make her look smaller.

I'd say that even the VS models are happy in their own skin. And remember modeling is really just an acting job. She may be smiling and seem happy but is she really? You can't make that assumption. She may be wishing she was a size 1 or even just an 8.

What I see you presenting here is that LB uses women to promote their products that wear the sizes that they sell. Well so does VS. I just don't see how that makes them "better".

DoņaNina
10-21-2010, 11:36 AM
This is true, but the women in most magazines aren't real women. They started out that way, and then the photo editors got a hold of them, and now they are pictures of what used to be real women, before photoshop nipped and tucked them into something that doesn't even look realistic anymore. And while I don't think Lane Bryant is exempt from this, I do think that at least after all the photoshopping, they *still* look realistic.

Somewhat. The lady in that picture has also been Photoshopped, she was just photoshopped enough to smooth out any imperfections, like... cellulite.. creases.. things like that.

There are always fixes in media, regardless of how "flawless" the model is.

Gemdrite
10-21-2010, 08:32 PM
Somewhat. The lady in that picture has also been Photoshopped, she was just photoshopped enough to smooth out any imperfections, like... cellulite.. creases.. things like that.

There are always fixes in media, regardless of how "flawless" the model is.
Hence my saying that I don't believe Lane Bryant to be exempt from photoshopping. I am aware that ALL photos are photoshopped, but I feel that Lane Bryant still presents a more realistic viewpoint of the average female in America in their photos. It blows my mind knowing studies show that the majority of Americans are overweight to some degree, and yet photos rarely show women larger than a size 6 (max!) modeling the clothes. I want to know how a 2X shirt is going to look on a 2X woman, not 2X shirt being advertised but a size 2 model wearing a size 2 shirt.

Sorcha Griannon
10-22-2010, 12:09 AM
I may be totally wrong, but I took it as Speed stating his opinion that the model was sexier in his OPINION that VS. Now, if that is the case, there is no need to jump the gun and get defensive. This thread has gone the way of too many others when it comes to size.

Of course, I could be wrong, which I'm sure someone will quickly point out, lol.


Sorcha

SpeedKnight
10-22-2010, 05:27 AM
I quit.

I personally thought I was being complimentary. I personally DO think the LB models are sexier than the VS models. THAT'S MY OPINION. I'm pretty sure that there's some women who find me to be "drop dead sexy" while others might find me a bit repulsive. I can deal with that... it's the individuals' opinions, not a pot shot at me.

Are there "skinny" women I find very attractive? Uh... yeah. Are the "thick" women that I find very attractive? uh... yeah. Are there women in between that I find very attractive? Uh... yeah. Truth told, though, the women I find most attractive are the ones that ARE HAPPY IN THEIR OWN SKIN. That's just me.

I apologize if I ruffled anyone's feathers. Not my intent. I will, on the flipside of that, venture forth into potentially pissing off EVERYONE by saying that if offense was found where none was intended, then the offended parties, in my not-so-humble opinion, are the ones who are guilty of being unhappy with themselves. That, in and of itself, makes me sad.

Some of you will now, likely, be pretty pissed with me. Fine. Those of you who actually enjoy interaction with me will get over it, I'm sure. Those of you who don't, probably won't.

I'm done with this thread now. I could only dig a deeper hole.

Lady Sarah
10-22-2010, 12:41 PM
Wow. Just... WOW. Really, ladies? Are we so jaded and bitchy that we have to start a row over ANYTHING that's said? Do we deliberately look for a fight over anything or pick one just because someone's got an opinion and they're not afraid of expressing it?

He was expressing his opinion. And last I heard, we were all free to do so. He never said thin/slender/skinny women were ugly or that they were unhappy. He said that he felt the LB models were happier.

Frankly, I don't think ANY model is completely happy with themselves due to the business that they're in. They are under constant pressure to be perfect in every way and to maintain what they have or they risk losing their income. Truth be told, IMO, if you look at any model's pictures, you can tell that they're not happy. A lot of photos, they look downright pissed off. Sure, that's what the photographer wants, but come on... When someone's happy, you can see it through everything else. There's a radiance and a light in their eyes. Look at the photos of Ellen DeGeneres for Covergirl. THAT woman is happy and it shows.

Ysobelle
10-22-2010, 01:10 PM
Sadly, whenever a group of people starts talking about weight and body image over the internet, there's gonna be a fight. So to speak. It's just such a loaded issue. There's a huge "Be Happy With Who You Are!" movement now, but it's fighting an uphill battle against centuries of grinding societal influence.

And it's pervasive. I have a friend who's absolutely horrible about perception vs. reality-- and he's a man. He's hot, sexy, popular, has a voice like Alan Rickman, and women fall all over him. He's convinced he's unattractive-- enormous amounts of evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

It's not just from the media. It's our families, even when they mean well. It's from our friends. It's from strangers. It's from our own psychology. It's easy to blame VS or LB or modern designers or TV or anything. In the end, though, our worst enemy is our own brain. That's where we really need to fight.

Lady Sarah
10-22-2010, 01:23 PM
And it's pervasive. I have a friend who's absolutely horrible about perception vs. reality-- and he's a man. He's hot, sexy, popular, has a voice like Alan Rickman, and women fall all over him. He's convinced he's unattractive-- enormous amounts of evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

I need to move up there with you. LOL While I don't find AR that attractive, I DO love his voice. I've got a thing for voices. I could listen to James Earl Jones read the phonebook... Same with Sam Elliott (I'm shameless... I got quivery for years listening to the Beef commercials when he did the voiceovers! Now he's the voice of Dodge pickups. *whimper*)


In the end, though, our worst enemy is our own brain. That's where we really need to fight.

And we need to stop picking fights with one another because of this.

RedFox
10-22-2010, 02:03 PM
Frankly, I don't think ANY model is completely happy with themselves due to the business that they're in. They are under constant pressure to be perfect in every way and to maintain what they have or they risk losing their income. Truth be told, IMO, if you look at any model's pictures, you can tell that they're not happy. A lot of photos, they look downright pissed off. Sure, that's what the photographer wants, but come on... When someone's happy, you can see it through everything else. There's a radiance and a light in their eyes. Look at the photos of Ellen DeGeneres for Covergirl. THAT woman is happy and it shows.

This is very true. The modeling industry rips women to pieces if they aren't perfect - and they don't even have a standard for "perfect". It's cut throat and evil and finding a modeling agency or group that doesn't go "well you HAVE to be this, this, and this" is anywhere from down-right near-impossible to impossible.


In the end, though, our worst enemy is our own brain. That's where we really need to fight.

But what if my brain beats me up for trying to think something it doesn't like?

On a more serious note- its the place we need to fight yes, but people are two busy conforming and accepting or rebelling to realize this. The most difficult adversary you will ever have is yourself in my honest opinion - and convincing yourself to go against said adversary is probably even more difficult.

And Yso.... I never want to fight your brain. I think its too smart for me. I know you are - and I'm sure your brain has lots of hidden secrets it won't let you reveal to the world just yet >><<

DoņaNina
10-22-2010, 02:50 PM
This is very true. The modeling industry rips women to pieces if they aren't perfect - and they don't even have a standard for "perfect". It's cut throat and evil and finding a modeling agency or group that doesn't go "well you HAVE to be this, this, and this" is anywhere from down-right near-impossible to impossible.

It's true, but the standards are changing. Lately, clothing designers have realized that people of larger sizes are profitable. So, bigger models! Unfortunately, this means that shrimps like me still aren't runway material.. ::devilmaycry::

But hey, plenty of glamour models come in all shapes and sizes. Know what's "in" right now? Big butts, big lips, and tiny waists. Back in the 90's it was all about huge boobs and blonde hair. Things change and people's opinions fluctuate. Eventually, the masses will worship rubinesque women again.