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View Full Version : Tenure Terminated?



Triskel
02-01-2011, 10:29 PM
I am a education major in history and I'm always looking at different types of news for my classes. In every case we all agree that teaching should be based on the teachers compedence. Well, looks like this may become a reality. O.o

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/01/us/01tenure.html?_r=1&ref=education

RaevynCait
02-01-2011, 10:48 PM
I never really considered a whole lot about tenure at the public school level, I guess because I didn't really encounter a whole lot of teachers who got away with anything including questionable competence simply because of tenure.

When I was in college, however, I had a couple of really HORRIBLE professors who got away with pretty much anything, including calling me and a fellow student stupid because we had trouble with algebra (we both failed, and she spent HOURS in the math lab getting assistance, but it didn't help her pass his tests). We were both "mature" students, having spent time in the workforce for several years before we returned to college. When we reported his behavior, we were told essentially "well he has tenure, so we can't do anything about it, except tell you not to take one of his courses again." The following semester, the Faculty Senate, in conjunction with the Student Congress, proposed, passed, and implemented a Tenure Review system, in which ALL instructors are reviewed regularly, based on their status (Adjunct, Associate, or full Professors, or Instructors without PhD certifications), ensuring that everyone was reviewed AT LEAST every 3 years (for full professors). That review is supposed to be based on a combination of student reviews, grades, and peer reviews, which, IMHO, is a good way to do it. When 80% of a class FAILS, there is a problem with the instructor...

Triskel
02-01-2011, 10:51 PM
If majority of the class fails clearly there is something wrong with the teacher. XD I have had teachers say 'Well, I have tenure. They can't do anything about it.' It's a excuse that is unacceptable. I know that it is useful for those who do teach well. But, it hides those who are not capable of teaching.

Phoenix McHeit
02-02-2011, 08:46 AM
In every other profession*, one's employment can be terminated for poor performance. Why not teachers? Seems simple to me.




* that I know of - can't think if there's an exception to the rule right now.

MillieWylde
02-02-2011, 11:42 AM
A part of me likes the idea of tenure. After all, a particularly troublesome class could cause a number of "bad reviews" to turn up focused on one particular teacher. That situation should not lead to the teacher's detriment.

HOWEVER... I do not believe that "tenure" needs to equal "exempt from consequences". And I do not believe that the world is right when 80% of a class fails.

Just my 2 cents...

RaevynCait
02-02-2011, 12:08 PM
A part of me likes the idea of tenure. After all, a particularly troublesome class could cause a number of "bad reviews" to turn up focused on one particular teacher. That situation should not lead to the teacher's detriment.

HOWEVER... I do not believe that "tenure" needs to equal "exempt from consequences". And I do not believe that the world is right when 80% of a class fails.

Just my 2 cents...

That's precisely why the review also includes the grades and peer reviews in addition to student reviews, and happen not every semester, but somewhere between annually and every 3 years, depending on the level of the instructor. Assuming that the professor teaches 2 courses per semester, and one in each summer session, that is, at minimum, 6 classes of student reviews and grades being evaluated at an annual evaluation.
In my experience, the adjuncts, associates, and instructors don't have the "I have tenure, you can't do anything to me" attitude. I took an "intro to college algebra" course taught by a grad student. when grades were posted, somewhere between 20 & 25% of the course had passed. She did not explain things very well, and she didn't answer questions very effectively, and honestly, IMHO, had no business in the classroom.

Jamianne
02-02-2011, 12:49 PM
In every other profession*, one's employment can be terminated for poor performance. Why not teachers? Seems simple to me.




* that I know of - can't think if there's an exception to the rule right now.

Civil Servants. It's almost impossible to fire someone in the government once they've passed their probationary period.

Ravin' Raven
02-02-2011, 05:30 PM
And actually most states are Employment at Will states. You don't have to be given any reason to be fired. So when a type of organization goes outside of that there can be an issue.

Rowen
02-04-2011, 12:57 PM
And actually most states are Employment at Will states. You don't have to be given any reason to be fired. So when a type of organization goes outside of that there can be an issue.
Thanks Raven, I was going to point that out too. Local and state governments are dropping even 20 year employees with little notice, so I haven't seen a whole lot of job security there.