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View Full Version : Fish have feelings too!


Lady Anisette
03-29-2006, 10:43 AM
This was in today's NY Post. It seems that a group of judges has decided to uphold the new animal cruelty laws in NY. Good for them. A goldfish may not be cute and cuddly like a dog, cat or other furry pet -- but to this little boy it was his pet, pal, friend. I hope this yutz comes back as something small and stompable in his next life. I truly believe in karmic justice....

:rant: Okay... I'll get off my box now.


March 29, 2006 -- Fry him! An appeals court says a Manhattan man was properly sentenced to two years in prison for the cold-blooded killing of a goldfish.


"You want to see something awesome?" Michael Garcia asked 9-year-old Juan Torres before stomping on the boy's goldfish, named Crystal, killing it instantly two years ago. "My sisters were very upset. They were crying," Juan, now 11, told The Post. Garcia later attacked both Juan and his mom, Emelie Martinez. Garcia was convicted of assault and felony animal cruelty - but argued that the cruelty rap should be reduced to a misdemeanor or tossed altogether because the victim was just a fish.

"Beloved household pets they [fish] may be, but 'companion animals' in the same vein as dogs or cats they are not," argued Garcia's lawyer, Robert Dean. "If dropped in a pond and offered the opportunity to swim away, a goldfish will do so without any hesitation and not look back."
But in a landmark decision, the state Appellate Division yesterday disagreed with Dean's contention "that all household pets are equal, but some are more equal than others."

While the five-judge panel partially reduced Garcia's overall prison sentence on a technicality, they upheld the felony cruelty conviction, filleting his argument that "goldfish are not domesticated animals because given the opportunity they would leave home."

"While this trait arguably distinguishes fish from dogs and, probably to a lesser extent, cats, it fails to take into account that many other animals commonly considered pets . . . would depart for less confining venues and greener pastures if given the opportunity," Justice James Catterson wrote.

The fish kill happened in 2003 in the Lower East Side apartment Garcia shared with Martinez, her three kids, Juan, Crystal, then 8, and Emaleeann, 5, two dogs, and a cat. They also had three goldfish, named after the kids. Martinez said she woke up at 3 that morning to find the 6-foot-5 Garcia standing over her, holding their 20-gallon fish tank. He then hurled it into the TV, shattering both. Juan rushed out to see what was happening, which is when Garcia "stomped" on Crystal, the decision says.

Garcia went berserk again the next day, punching Martinez in the face and choking her. He went after Juan when he jumped in to help his mom.

He was sent up the river for seven to 15 years, but the appeals court reduced his time to five to 11 years after finding fault with one of the assault convictions.
Dean said he'll attempt to appeal the decision to the state's highest court, the Court of Appeals

Ysobelle
03-29-2006, 11:03 AM
Thus again perfectly illustrating the link between animal abusers and human abusers.

Abuse is abuse, no matter if the victim is a pet or its owner.

Dmitri
03-29-2006, 12:07 PM
umm...

Will I get arrested now for feeding my Oscar feeder fish (goldfish)... What about feeding my boa and rat or mouse...

Granted this guy was a dick and should get what's cming to him... but this "landmark" case is very scary for some that have to kill animals for other reasons...

Savantage
03-29-2006, 12:23 PM
umm...

Will I get arrested now for feeding my Oscar feeder fish (goldfish)... What about feeding my boa and rat or mouse...

Granted this guy was a dick and should get what's cming to him... but this "landmark" case is very scary for some that have to kill animals for other reasons...
I don't think so as you are taking care of another pets needs that can't be handled with any old pet food and require live feed. I get a bit worried about the pet advocates for animal rights because I believe they are going to the extreme. my older boys want bearded dragons (they require live crickets and meal worms), one wants a ball python (again live feed). I agree that what the stupid jerk did was abuse pure and simple he deserves what he gets.

Phoenix McHeit
03-29-2006, 12:25 PM
I believe feeding a pet live food is a wee bit different than stomping on a pet deliberately to kill it & traumatize a child.

I see the fine line there, D - but I believe the 'cruelty' thing will be the defining marker. Starving your pet is cruelty - therefore NOT feeding it would be the incident charged.

I think.....

Dmitri
03-29-2006, 12:39 PM
"landmark cases" usually fuel crazies... And if you think PETA won't try to use this to "landmark case" attack the Fulton Fish Market or live feed or BassMasters, then you don't believe that the new South Dakota abortion ban will affect anyone else but those from SD...

Dmitri
03-29-2006, 12:40 PM
I believe feeding a pet live food is a wee bit different than stomping on a pet deliberately to kill it & traumatize a child.

but which is it? cruelty to the animal or emotional cruelty to the child..

Ysobelle
03-29-2006, 01:19 PM
Well, I see your point, but one's continuing the food chain, and the other's a direct attempt to cause physical and emotional distress to an animal for no purpose whatsoever.

The Doxie with Moxie
03-29-2006, 02:14 PM
They also had three goldfish, named after the kids.

I would tend to think that while this sadistic son-of-a-bitch did stomp the fish to death, the stomping was actually a symbolic gesture explaining what would happen to the children if the family displeased him. It's bad enough to kill a beloved pet but how much more traumatic when it is a little fish named after the children Juan, Crystal,or Emaleeann and there it is squashed on the floor.

I firmly believe that fish fall into the beloved family member category. We had an awesome tank with some cool upside down catfish, elephant fish, and the most amazing typhlonectes natan (rubber eel, thought it is not an eel). The typhlonectes natan was named Mr. Socks and lived for about 6 years. When he died the heart and soul of the fish tank died with it. He was so cool. He looked like a sock puppet and he always came to the top of the tank to be petted. If he had been thrown on the floor and stomped to death, let alone in front of the children, it would have been pretty traumatic.

Savantage Wrote:
my older boys want bearded dragons (they require live crickets and meal worms), one wants a ball python (again live feed).

Hey Savantage,

Just my 2 cents but you should probably discuss the live feeding of a Ball Python with your veterinarian before purchasing one. Our Vet cautioned us to always feed mousicles (little baby frozen mice) to our meat eating reptiles. Apparently a lot of injuries are inflicted by the live food. You can let the mousicles come up to room temperature before feeding if you get a picky snake. I'd hate to see your sons pet be injured during feeding.


The Doxie:zen:

Savantage
03-29-2006, 02:27 PM
I know a friend had a 6 ft. and a 1 ft. The 1 ft bit him after smelling the scent of the feed from him feeding his 6 ft; from then on nobody got to handle his babies he ended up on antibiotics and stitches:shhh: thanks for the 2 cents I'll pass it on to my boys

Dmitri
03-29-2006, 03:17 PM
Well, I see your point, but one's continuing the food chain, and the other's a direct attempt to cause physical and emotional distress to an animal for no purpose whatsoever.

Nikki, you and I know the difference... People like PETA are not rational... Like Theocratic Conservatives, they see the world in black and white and will use any means to get their agenda across, no matter how irrational...

No doubt this guy is an ass and I hope he gets shanked in prison... But I'm as concerned about this ruling as I am about the SD ban... It's the stepping stone to more irrational and illogical laws and lawsuits.

Ysobelle
03-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Well, PETA folks aren't all nuts, so don't paint 'em all with that brush. Just a lot of them.

And feeding an animal to an animal is the natural progression of things, so I'm thinking that's just another cesspit no one wants to get into. I'd like to think that in the hierarchy of things, even PETA looks down on the folks who try to make their omnivorous pets vegan.

Aramis
03-29-2006, 04:47 PM
Wow, what a big tough man, stomping a little goldfish like that.


I hope he becomes VERY popular with his fellow inmates.

Dmitri
03-30-2006, 08:01 AM
Well, PETA folks aren't all nuts, so don't paint 'em all with that brush. Just a lot of them.

PETA, the organization, is an entity that encourages and supports terrorism. That is a documented fact. They ally themselves with terrorism organizations such as ALF, which advocates the freeing of all domesticated animals so that they have the same rights as humans.

Granted, it is a broad brush, and I'm sure some PETA members are not as fanatical as the base organization. But PETA itself *is* an irrational, illogical supporter of terrorism.

Eric McTavish
03-30-2006, 08:10 AM
Granted, it is a broad brush, and I'm sure some PETA members are not as fanatical as the base organization. But PETA itself *is* an irrational, illogical supporter of terrorism.

I'll have to agree with D on this one... PETA is nothing more than a terriorist group... The only thing I would trust PETA to do would be to take advanteage of ruleings like this.

Buxom Wench
03-30-2006, 10:59 AM
umm...

Will I get arrested now for feeding my Oscar feeder fish (goldfish)... What about feeding my boa and rat or mouse...

Granted this guy was a dick and should get what's cming to him... but this "landmark" case is very scary for some that have to kill animals for other reasons...


ummm, Dmitri, unless you have brought home the live-feed to make into a pet and then feed to whoever, I think you can safely say that the feed was not a pet, per sa, just a food source.

besides, evryone here would back you 1000%.

Dmitri
03-30-2006, 11:50 AM
ummm, Dmitri, unless you have brought home the live-feed to make into a pet and then feed to whoever, I think you can safely say that the feed was not a pet, per sa, just a food source.

besides, evryone here would back you 1000%.

no offense, but that and 50¢ won't buy me a cup of coffe in a court of law...

My point is "Landmark Cases" are scary... Just watch the fallout from the SD abortion law...

Buxom Wench
03-30-2006, 11:53 AM
no offense, but that and 50¢ won't buy me a cup of coffe in a court of law...

My point is "Landmark Cases" are scary... Just watch the fallout from the SD abortion law...

No offense taken....