Borat Backlash, whatcha think of it all? [Archive]

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surlywench

11-11-2006, 10:00 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Entertainment/story?id=2646888&page=1

Nov. 11, 2006 — The film "Borat" is the surprise hit of the fall, netting almost $26 million its first weekend. But it also takes comedy to different and darker places than ever before — and maybe that's why the lawsuits have started.
Borat presents himself to filmgoers — and to many unsuspecting real people in the movie — as a bumbling reporter from Kazakhstan. But he's actually a British, Cambridge-educated comedian named Sacha Baron Cohen.
Artist Linda Stein, creator of works like "Woman Warrior," unknowingly played a part in the film.
"Give me a smile baby; why angry face?" Borat says to Stein in the film.
"Well, what you're saying is very demeaning. Do you know the word demeaning?" she asks.
"No," he responds.
Speaking to ABC News, Stein still did not feel much like smiling.
"What he does is he really makes people look like jerks," she said. "And I find that problematic."
Cohen's dark political humor, hidden behind Borat's mustache and misogyny, has certainly struck a chord both in Britain and in the United States.
"We support your war of terror," Borat tells a crowd of cheering Americans in the film.
But when real people are involved and candor becomes comedy, trouble can follow.
Two college students, who claim they were given alcohol and encouraged to be outrageous, are suing.
"Our contention is that they were set up and made to say things they don't believe," said the students' attorney, Olivier Taillieu. "They want to be cut from the movie and they want financial compensation."
For Baron Cohen, it's all about the alter ego. Before becoming Borat, he was Ali G on HBO, fooling the older and wiser into believing he was the younger and hipper host of a streetwise show for teens.
ABC News' own Sam Donaldson fell for it.
"It was 'Waterworld' that brought down the president?" Baron Cohen asked Donaldson in an episode of HBO's "Da Ali G Show."
"Watergate," Donaldson told him.
Later, Donaldson told ABC News, "I was got; I was had, but so what?"

Others haven't shrugged it off so easily — the people of Kazakhstan, for example.
"If I saw him, I'd kill him straight away," one Kazakh man told ABC News. "We like hunting."
Mahir Cagri, a Turkish music teacher, plans to sue Baron Cohen. He claims Borat is based on him. Mahir was an Internet sensation back in 1999 when, on his Web site, he offered kisses and tantalizingly revealed that he likes sex and taking nude photos, yet lives alone. There is a resemblance.
"I love nice womans, nice jokes. I am active man," Cagri said. "I can take nude pictures. I can see their body who best, which am good for me."
Mahir's lawsuit is unlikely to be the last that the chameleon comic will face.

Apparently, Baron Cohen has landed a $42 million deal to star in a new movie as another fictional alter ego: Bruno. He's a gay, Austrian fashion reporter and appeared on "Da Ali G Show."

ABC News' Nick Watt reported this story for "Nightline."

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so....what do ya'll think? Do these people really have a decent reason to sue? Or are they taking themselves far too seriously?

Mistress Lisette

11-11-2006, 10:17 PM

<snip>"What he does is he really makes people look like jerks," she said. "And I find that problematic." <snip>
Um, no. People make themselves look like jerks. He just exploits that jerk-ness. :lol:

I hafta admit, I like Sacha Baron Cohen. I like his Ali G and I like Borat precisely because he mocks us and the sexist, racist homophobes like the Borat character. The only reason I haven't seen the film yet is because right now I don't have 3 hours to spare going to and sitting in a theater. (Curse those gazillion papers and exams I'm grading!) But the hubby and son have seen the movie, call it brilliant, and, frankly, from the previews I've seen, I gotta agree. I can't wait until Thanksgiving when I'll have some time to catch it.

As for the movie taking comedy to "different and darker places" it's supposedly not gone before, I have this to ask: After years of mainstream "comedy" like Dumb and Dumber and White Chicks, is it any wonder that people are frightened and/or offended by satire and dark comedy?

Just my .02.

Pathos

11-11-2006, 11:04 PM

I just find it hilarious that none of this talk began until after the film was certified a hit by winning the U.S. box office last week.

This film has been around for awhile. Clips have been showing up on the net for months. I actually thought it was a "straight to video" thing myself.

All these people suddenly being "outraged" is just another indication that money is everything in this world. Had the movie tanked its first week...we'd never have heard of all this.

Now it's a hit...everyone wants paid.

Makes me think...good for Sacha. You can't buy this kind of publicity.

I'll bet it's number 1 again this week.

Pathos

11-11-2006, 11:18 PM

Two college students, who claim they were given alcohol and encouraged to be outrageous, are suing.
"Our contention is that they were set up and made to say things they don't believe," said the students' attorney, Olivier Taillieu. "They want to be cut from the movie and they want financial compensation."Upon re-reading that I'm wondering if Mel Gibson is watching the outcome of this.

8-)

Vixynne Rose

11-11-2006, 11:33 PM

Upon re-reading that I'm wondering if Mel Gibson is watching the outcome of this.

8-)

I have a feeling he's pointing at the TV hollering, "See!? See, I TOLD you that's what happens when you drink too much! They didn't mean what THEY said either!!" ::whistle::

Of course, the equation CK + A = IPB where C = College Kids, A = Alcohol and IPB = Irresponsible Public Behavior has been around since they sang Gaudeamus Igitur in Rome. ;-)

Mel's just a little old to be a frat boy...not that it's stopping him.

Ysobelle

11-11-2006, 11:43 PM

Though hey, to be fair, we don't know what they actually said, and what got edited.

Anyway, did anyone see him on The Daily Show the other week?

"You do know I'm one of them, right?"

Backing away slowly. "You are Jew??"

"Yes, yes I am."

"But...where are the horns?"

"Oh, they're under the hair."

Pathos

11-11-2006, 11:46 PM

Yes well I didn't mean to turn it into a Mel Gibson thing. Just saw the window of opportunity for a joke (valid one, I think).

Point is...will these kids be given a pass (and a buttload of money) for basically the same thing Mel was dragged over the coals for?

We're now talking about whether Mel's career is over. These kids are about to hit the lottery. Where's the line?

Pointless "show me the money" litigation. Sad truth.

Edit: This was obviously a repsonse to this:
I have a feeling he's pointing at the TV hollering, "See!? See, I TOLD you that's what happens when you drink too much! They didn't mean what THEY said either!!"

Of course, the equation CK + A = IPB where C = College Kids, A = Alcohol and IPB = Irresponsible Public Behavior has been around since they sang Gaudeamus Igitur in Rome.

Mel's just a little old to be a frat boy...not that it's stopping him.

Vixynne Rose

11-11-2006, 11:53 PM

Mistress Lisette

11-12-2006, 12:30 AM

Mistress Lisette

11-12-2006, 12:37 AM

<snip>Point is...will these kids be given a pass (and a buttload of money) for basically the same thing Mel was dragged over the coals for?<snip>

Egads, I hope not. Whatever happened to personal responsbility even when drunk? These kids are claiming they were "given alcohol" and "made to say things they don't believe." Yeesh, I'm really frustrated with people not owning up for their own actions.

Ysobelle

11-12-2006, 12:52 AM

Is it legal, though, to get someone to sign a release when they're drunk?

Gemdrite

11-12-2006, 02:48 AM

Is it legal, though, to get someone to sign a release when they're drunk?
I am pretty sure it's not; however, these kids are saying that they were *given* alcohol. Which means they aren't even taking responsibility for the drinking.

We just bitched out one of our friends, cause he got ticked at all of us for letting him drink too much. Last I checked, he was an adult. We didn't force him to drink. We made the drinks and he said "Oh yeah, let me have another." Personal responsibility just isn't taught anymore, or even expected.

surlywench

11-12-2006, 10:21 AM

I am pretty sure it's not; however, these kids are saying that they were *given* alcohol. Which means they aren't even taking responsibility for the drinking.

We just bitched out one of our friends, cause he got ticked at all of us for letting him drink too much. Last I checked, he was an adult. We didn't force him to drink. We made the drinks and he said "Oh yeah, let me have another." Personal responsibility just isn't taught anymore, or even expected.

oooookay...see....here's the issue......once you have a certain amount of alchohol in your system, YOU LOSE YOUR ABILITY TO MAKE REASONED DECISIONS. You also lose your ability to cut yourself off. Granted, he should have cut himself off before getting to that point (or told you before he started drinking that he didn't want to get too loaded and to cut him off..) But legally, if you serve someone too much and see that they are obviously drunk *and* don't cut them off and they go out and cause damage to property or injury to another person, YOU can be held criminally liable.

Personal responsibilty only goes so far once you start consuming past your tolerance levels. Then, well, then it gets messy.

Pathos

11-12-2006, 11:08 AM

Is it legal, though, to get someone to sign a release when they're drunk?
See...my problem is with the fact they waited until the movie became a hit to make that claim.

Didn't they know the very next day they'd gotten drunk and signed a release? Why didn't they object right away? The answer of course is because there wouldn't have been any money involved if they complained right away.

Same with this guy who's suing saying he's the real Borat. The character has been around for years now. Why is he all of a sudden upset?

The prospect of a big payoff brings out the outrage in us all it would seem.

surlywench

11-12-2006, 11:20 AM

Same with this guy who's suing saying he's the real Borat. The character has been around for years now. Why is he all of a sudden upset?

I thought Cohen came up with Borat specifically for the movie, I know he's had other characters for some time, tho so I wouldn't be all that surprised.
I'm so out of the loop......

I"M LOOPLESS!!!!!!!!!!

Isabelle Warwicke

11-12-2006, 12:30 PM

Is it legal, though, to get someone to sign a release when they're drunk?

They were probably asked to sign a release *before* they got drunk. Most movies like this do that. I agree that these people who are crying-exploitation were jackasses all by themselves, the movie just happened to catch them on tape.

I cannot accept the notion that adding alcohol to one biological system turns one into an anit-semetic mysoginist. Those thoughs or idea have to be in there already and the alcohol just gives it an express lane to the mouth from the corner of ones mind.

My $.02 is that this *litigation* is internal hype. It just draws more attention to the movie. Personally I'm going to wait until it comes out on video.

kyrana

11-12-2006, 01:46 PM

Those thoughts may indeed be present without the presence of alcohol, but don't most of us self-edit in order to not piss people off/try to be better people? It's a lot harder to self-edit once you start drinking, especially if people are trying to get you to say foolish things.

Regardless, this whole thing smacks of opportunism at its worst. If someone gets me drunk and gets me to do something stupid, I'm exhibiting my own immaturity. I honestly think that most of these types of suits do nothing more than illustrate how immature the person bringing them really is. If you're ticked off that someone got you to say something hurtful about a specific group of people while you were drunk, why not go volunteer or do something constructive to make ammends to the group in question? Unless these dickheads are planning to donate the money they are suing for to someone who was hurt by what they said while drunk, I don't think a lawsuit really makes anyone but the dickheads in question feel better.

Pathos

11-12-2006, 01:54 PM

I thought Cohen came up with Borat specifically for the movie
The character has been around for at least a couple years. He debuted on "Da Ali G Show" in England awhile ago and Sacha hosted the MTV Europe video awards as Borat in 2005.

surlywench

11-12-2006, 03:22 PM

The character has been around for at least a couple years. He debuted on "Da Ali G Show" in England awhile ago and Sacha hosted the MTV Europe video awards as Borat in 2005.

see? I have no loop.....*poutz*

daBaroness

11-12-2006, 07:45 PM

Bean

11-12-2006, 08:46 PM

I won't go see it because I don't enjoy stupid, brainless, killing my brain cells every nanosecond movies like that. I didn't see Dumb and Dumber, White Chicks, or any other movies like it. I like my comedies a little smarter. If I want mindless, I just turn on the radio and listen to any of the 10,000 idiot DJ's on the air.

Gemdrite

11-12-2006, 10:11 PM

oooookay...see....here's the issue......once you have a certain amount of alchohol in your system, YOU LOSE YOUR ABILITY TO MAKE REASONED DECISIONS. You also lose your ability to cut yourself off. Granted, he should have cut himself off before getting to that point (or told you before he started drinking that he didn't want to get too loaded and to cut him off..) But legally, if you serve someone too much and see that they are obviously drunk *and* don't cut them off and they go out and cause damage to property or injury to another person, YOU can be held criminally liable.

Personal responsibilty only goes so far once you start consuming past your tolerance levels. Then, well, then it gets messy.
He started drinking because one of the other people at the party had decided not to, because he was running in a race the next day. He wanted to mildly torment the person. He drank one, then two, then three...then kept drinking. He knows what his tolerance is. He chose to go past it. It isn't like this guy has never drank before. He was just mad cause he made an a** out of himself, and photographic evidence exists of it.

Personally, I agree with Cusefan. I have no desire to see the movie sheerly because I don't care for that kind of humor. Same reason I don't watch Napoleon Dynamite, Team America, or anything else like that.

The only exception is Family Guy. For some reason, that show cracks me up.

Ysobelle

11-12-2006, 10:16 PM

Oh for the love of ...

It's humor ... comedy ... it's supposed to be FUNNY!

Some of these stoonads need a funny bone transplant and an enema!

Geeze - tell 'em to lighten up, get a sense of humor and take a shit!

But it's mean humour-- very much at someone else's expense. His whole schtick seems to be finding wholly unsuspecting people, drawing them in with an act, and poking malicious fun at them. It's exploitative and nasty. I see what you're saying, but I just don't ever find that kind of thing funny.

DameGoode

11-13-2006, 08:42 AM

daBaroness

11-13-2006, 10:27 AM

Yso - I know it's mean humor - I've never particularly liked that kind of thing myself. I loathed Don Rickles. And as has been mentioned, I don't like stooooooopid humor either. But in all of those cases, if it's something I don't like - I just don't pay my money and watch it - or if it's on TV - I just change the channel.

I guess my whole point is that with so many real things to raise a real bruhaha about - a stupid movie just doesn't hit my radar. Course neither does the latest gossip about Hollywood types or other innane "news."

I've just long felt the world has lost it's collective sense of humor - we all seem to be waiting to be (or wanting to be?) insulted so we can raise a stink.

It just wears me out.

Ysobelle

11-13-2006, 10:31 AM

Yso,
I so saw that Daily Show, and although I don't care for his type of comedy, I laughed so hard when he asked where the horns are!

I also don't like the comedy of humiliating people to make them funny. I like the first 10 minutes of the Daily Show and Colbert Report when it's just monologue (basically). I can't really stand their interviews. Just my personal preference, and obviously everyone is free to like what they like.

I doubt, I'll see the movie because of my preferences. Yet, I like some of the clips. I just don't think that I could sit through 3 hours of that.

Yuppers! Exactly. I can take a minute or two of it, but past that, and I'm completely turned off. The clip where he tells a man his wife is sub-par right in front of her? Nope. Not funny.

The Colbert Report is very much satiric, too, but in a far less outrageous way. It's more subtle satire. But it, too, annoys me when it's obvious the people being interviewed have no clue what's going on. What annoys me more, though, is the fact that he's interviewing people in this country, who should have full access to the show. These people have brains and press agents. If I'm going to be interviewed on TV, you'd better believe I'm going to do at least five minutes of research.

Jon Stewart, though, doesn't play the cruel card very often, unless he outright means it. While he's often ironic and sarcastic, he usually plays his interviews straight. That's why Stephen Colbert is such a great foil for him.

DoñaNina

11-13-2006, 10:55 AM

Egads, I hope not. Whatever happened to personal responsbility even when drunk? These kids are claiming they were "given alcohol" and "made to say things they don't believe." Yeesh, I'm really frustrated with people not owning up for their own actions.

The frat boys made me cry with laughter. They are certainly not the minority in America's colleges.

Dmitri

11-13-2006, 11:22 AM

the movie is REALLY satirical verses the US...

What Mr. Cohen does is put people in situations where they have to give *base*, *instinctual* reactions...

Is it mean? That's debatable.

Does that paint people in a bad light? Yes. But with these college kids saying racist remarks... Like Mel Gibson, I don't care HOW MANY drinks you have, you don't spout things against your moral thought process... You say things you might not say OUT LOUD...

Ysobelle

11-13-2006, 11:25 AM

the movie is REALLY satirical verses the US...

What Mr. Cohen does is put people in situations where they have to give *base*, *instinctual* reactions...

Is it mean? That's debatable.

Not always. A lot of the clips I've seen the people he pranks are perfectly sober. You've seen the clip from the dinner, where he's so nasty to the host's wife?

Pathos

11-13-2006, 11:28 AM

Not always. A lot of the clips I've seen the people he pranks are perfectly sober. You've seen the clip from the dinner, where he's so nasty to the host's wife?
I don't think they're the ones making any claims they were tricked and only massive amounts of money can ease their suffering.

Ysobelle

11-13-2006, 11:36 AM

I don't think they're the ones making any claims they were tricked and only massive amounts of money can ease their suffering.

Oh, no, I was just using that as an example of why I despise that kind of humour. I just don't like mean.

Dmitri

11-13-2006, 11:40 AM

well he's a jew playing a guy that believes jews are the devil (The daily show). When he's there, in his character, he acts like that... Again, right or wrong he illicits *true* responses.

When he's at the Rodeo and Starts saying that Khazakstan complete supports Bush's "war of Terror" and the crew starts cheering...

It's base and black satire sure... But the realistic responses he gets are what people do... And sometimes your not proud of your reactions...

and you sue, like a little bitch.

Pathos

11-13-2006, 11:44 AM

Oh, no, I was just using that as an example of why I despise that kind of humour. I just don't like mean.
Ah gotcha. I tend to agree. I don't like mean-spirited humor either and I'm in no real hurry to see the film.

But when it comes to all these people coming out of the woodwork now in an obvious attempt to simply get paid...with regards to that I'm completely on Sacha's side.

DoñaNina

11-13-2006, 11:44 AM

But with these college kids saying racist remarks... Like Mel Gibson, I don't care HOW MANY drinks you have, you don't spout things against your moral thought process... You say things you might not say OUT LOUD...

Same with the dude at the rodeo.. about how he wants them to hang all the gay people in the US.. seriously, tears in my eyes. Almost ALMOST as funny as the Running of the Jew. Yes it was stupid comedy. It showcased a few proud Americans and how they actually think and act. I do think maybe they should have gotten permission before putting it on the big screen, which it seems like they did, and only after they realized, "Well gee... maybe I shouldn't have said that bit about killing all the gay people", did they decide maybe it's NOT they're own fault for saying those things in the first place.