Puppy gnaws baby toes

[Selena]

This really is a troubling story. There are so many wrongs here.

*************


BOSSIER CITY, La. - A pit bull puppy chewed off four of a baby girl's toes while the child's parents slept, police here said Monday. The parents were booked on charges of child desertion and criminal negligence and were being held in the Bossier Parish Jail pending an initial court appearance.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061212/ap_on_re_us/baby_s_toes

[Pansy Faye]

What the heck is wrong that parents would:
#1 leave a baby in a car seat to sleep all night
#2 NOT cage a new puppy at night
#3 NOT hear their baby screaming while it's toes are being gnawed off!!!

AND #4 WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU HAVE A NEW PUPPY AND A NEW BABY AT THE SAME TIME!!!! dogs grow up so much faster than children. and a pit bull to boot!!!!

[Lady Sarah]

Christ on toast, we need more chlorine in the gene pool!!!

That poor, poor baby girl!

[Veldrina Vladescu]

Christ on toast, we need more chlorine in the gene pool!!!

That poor, poor baby girl!

forget the chlorine, where's the vitriol?! >:(

[Athalia Jewel]

More like a lifeguard.

It is incomprehensible to me how the parents could have slept thorugh the whole thing. If my son so much as coughs, I'm awake, and that's with the baby monitor on the other side of the house.

[Pansy Faye]

More like a lifeguard.

It is incomprehensible to me how the parents could have slept thorugh the whole thing. If my son so much as coughs, I'm awake, and that's with the baby monitor on the other side of the house.

I could tell when breathing patterns changed in my oldest. She's epilieptic, she slept in an other room. This kid was on the floor next to them. Must have really tied one on not to hear all that commotion. they should be sterilzed and not allowed to have any more kids after this one is taken away.

I firmly believe that people who wish to procreate should be given strict psychological testing. They do it for adoptive parents, but any moronic shmo can pop a kid out and no one says boo until AFTER something like this happens.

[willow of the wooded fortress]

Oh My God!!!! I don't even know what to say. Why the hell do they have a pit bull puppy for if they can't even take car of a human baby! They shouldn't be a permitted to take car of a anything living, even a plant for that matter.

[Selena]

Just think--- these asshats bought this pup from a breeder. Doesn't say much for the breeder either, now does it.

[Emrld]

The article you attached . . . said they bought the puppy from Teresa Miller. It does not use the term breeder to describe Ms. Miller.
It could be an individual . . . .
It could be a first timer . . .
Could be a puppy mill . . . .

[Torra]

Isn't one of the first things they teach you NOT to have new pets with a new baby? Good lord, I can only imagine what they must have had to miss their baby screaming in pain. Doesn't showcase their parenting skills in the best light.

[Selena]

The article you attached . . . said they bought the puppy from Teresa Miller. It does not use the term breeder to describe Ms. Miller.
It could be an individual . . . .
It could be a first timer . . .
Could be a puppy mill . . . .

True--- but the more I think about this, the more inclined I am to think the puppy had nothing to do with this.... and is being used as an excuse for something else.

A puppy-- at that age.... their teeth are tiny.

Something else happened to that child, and the parents are lying their asses off.

[Emrld]

Shocker of the day . . . .

I have to agree with Selena.

I seriously doubt the puppy just chewed the Babies toes. Unless there was something on the Babies toes - such as peanut butter - there really isn't a reason for a puppy to do anything but sniff . . . and from my memory of puppies . . .they would really have to work at it to do enough damage that the toes couldn't be repaired.

[Bonnie Strangeways]

Isn't one of the first things they teach you NOT to have new pets with a new baby? Good lord, I can only imagine what they must have had to miss their baby screaming in pain. Doesn't showcase their parenting skills in the best light.

Teach you where exactly? What, you think they give out manuals with each birth? Mine didn't come with one...I want a refund.

Seriously though, I'm curious as to why you think that people shouldn't have a new puppy with a baby? If, and note I said *IF*, they are responsibile, intelligent adults, there is absolutly no reason why they cannot be raised to gether quite successfuly. I know this for certain, I've done it...twice.

And why bash on the Pitty puppy? Hate to throw out a trite phrase here, but "hate the Deed, not the Breed". This is a case where you definately cannot say that just because the pup was a Pit, that it's the fault of the Breed.

I cannot concive of how the egg and sperm donors could have possibly slept through this horrible instance, unless they were completely whacked out on drugs. I've had the Mother-Of-All-Drunks going on, and there's no way you could possible tell me that you could sleep through a baby SCREAMING in pain. Strung out on crack...I can see.

[Magdalene]

Teach you where exactly? What, you think they give out manuals with each birth? Mine didn't come with one...I want a refund.

Seriously though, I'm curious as to why you think that people shouldn't have a new puppy with a baby? If, and note I said *IF*, they are responsibile, intelligent adults, there is absolutly no reason why they cannot be raised to gether quite successfuly. I know this for certain, I've done it...twice.

I was wondering the same thing about not having a new puppy with a new baby. When I was six months old, my parents got a six-month old Old English Sheepdog, which is still a 'puppy'. They didn't have any problems. If anything, the OES had apparently decided I was either his lamb or his puppy (they never quite decided which) and devoted most of his time to following me around keeping me safe.


I cannot concive of how the egg and sperm donors could have possibly slept through this horrible instance, unless they were completely whacked out on drugs. I've had the Mother-Of-All-Drunks going on, and there's no way you could possible tell me that you could sleep through a baby SCREAMING in pain. Strung out on crack...I can see.

Errmmmmm......I'd say my mom was a good mother, but she admits there was a time when I was about a year and a half that she was so completely worn down and exhausted that she didn't hear me crying/screaming to be taken out of the crib for quite some time. And she didn't do drugs.

I would say it's possible if physically and mentally exhausted, but I can't quite buy that for *both* parents at the same time.

[Gemdrite]

Teach you where exactly? What, you think they give out manuals with each birth? Mine didn't come with one...I want a refund.

Seriously though, I'm curious as to why you think that people shouldn't have a new puppy with a baby?
Actually, I have heard that too. For the life of me, I can't remember positively where, but I am inclined to say it was simply something our vet had mentioned at one point when my mom was pregnant. It wasn't like, a rule book or a class or anything, just that it isn't the greatest idea to have both a new puppy and a new baby at the same time, especially if either is your first, because they are both terribly exhausting (some more than others.)

I agree with Selena, however, especially after reading that article. It sounds like there are a couple of people involved who don't think it was the puppy at all, and I must say, I am quite skeptical. They sound poor; perhaps it was a scam for money of some kind gone awry? Pure speculation, of course.

[daBaroness]

OK - Bossier, LA ... pit bull ... baby sleeping on the FLOOR ... I'm guessing these boogans (1) weren't the brightest Crayolas in the box; (2) should have stuck to dogs not children; (3) were either higher than fuqin' kites or drunk off their arses not to hear what was taking place in the same room. (Perhaps it was the ONLY room.)

Yes, I think puppies and human babies can be raised successfully together - I also think assuming these were responsible adults who could do either successfully is a huge stretch.

Yes - a puppy's teeth are little - they're also often razor sharp - especially on the soft, thin skin of an infant.

And sorry - while I'm a dog lover - I do blame a breed - because the breed was bred to fight to the death. That's why they're called Pit Bulls. I guess I don't blame the breed exactly - but those who created the breed. I've heard all kinds of people defend the breed and say the same thing - it's not the breed - it's the people. But extreme aggressiveness is part of their inbred nature - and too many boogans like those in the story want them as an expression of their own "toughness," to exploit them as fighters, to breed them to earn money (because of those breed-specific tendencies), to guard their homes in a viscious manner or as some sort of status symbol.

Here in the KC area many municipalities have banned Pit Bulls because despite protests to the contrary - they were originally bred to be brutal fighters and killers and they continue to kill and maim humans "out of the blue." We had four deaths last year in this area from bit bulls attacks and others attacks and ensuing lawsuits where people weren't killed but were badly maimed.

[LdyJhawk]

Most publicized pitbull attacks are actually mixed breed dogs that resemble pits and are assigned that breed due to convenience.


THIS case..the parents should be drug out into the street and shot. Baby dogs gnaw. Six week old puppies gnaw on EVERYTHING. I don't care of Theresa whatsername says "he was the least of the chewers"..right. If it wiggles, it's a toy. There is a reason why, if raising a puppy and an infant together, you supervise their play time.

My rottie used to like to play "see if I can eat mommies toes through her leather stomping boots yay!" when he was 8 wks. Darwin STILL occasionally busts out the whole nomnomnom thing if you give him the chance to slobber on fingers and toes.

What idiot puts an INFANT who MOVES in front of a baby animal that is likely to see moving things as toys? Hell, my toy poodle used to chew on MY toes when I was a kid and he was a puppy...

common sense weeps at this, I assure you. Weeps..then falls over and dies

[Dmitri]

and a pit bull to boot!!!!

THIS HAS NOTHING TO FUCKING DO WITH IT!!!!

Christ on a cracker woman... The breed has nothing to do with this shit GODS I hate fucking ignorant people!

Let alone a 6 week old pup is NOT ready to be sold...

[Isabelle Warwicke]

I have a friend who is a dog breeder.

1. 6 week old puppies are not ready to get petted out to homes yet. There is a period of socialization, *especially* when they are begin petted out to a home with a newborn.

2. Puppy teeth might be razor sharp and they might have a tendancy to chew, but puppy teeth are also too soft to chew through hard things like bone. (That's why there is puppy-specific dog food and why you don't give rawhide to puppies.) Therefore, if the puppy did indeed do it, it would have taken a HELLUVA long ass time for it to happen to the extent that it did. It wouldn't have been able to just quickly bite them off like an adult dog.

3. How do you sleep on a mattress on the floor with your newborn infant in a carseat next to you and not hear it wailing & screaming hysterically in pain while four of it's toes are gnawed off slowly.

Idiots.

[Bean]

Gotta agree with Dmitri, here, it's the owner not the breed that makes a dog agressive. Yes, some dogs have a more heightened sense of it, but it can be trained; and training can be for the good, or for the bad.

[Ysobelle]

Dmitri? You wanna maybe not call a fellow poster "fucking ignorant," please?

And I don't know where y'all are, but in Philly, pit bulls are bred as status symbols by ignorant assholes who just want a dog like everyone else has. In other words, they don't give a fuck what dog mates with what dog, and the more aggressive and nasty and plain fucking crazy, the better. There's a BIG difference between a pit bull bred by a reputable, responsible breeder, and the poor animals churned out in West Philly to be walking time bombs. Sadly, the second are FAR more common. Like guns, it's not responsible owners who are the problem, but everyone suffers nonetheless.

[willow of the wooded fortress]

Dmitri? You wanna maybe not call a fellow poster "fucking ignorant," please?

And I don't know where y'all are, but in Philly, pit bulls are bred as status symbols by ignorant assholes who just want a dog like everyone else has. In other words, they don't give a fuck what dog mates with what dog, and the more aggressive and nasty and plain fucking crazy, the better. There's a BIG difference between a pit bull bred by a reputable, responsible breeder, and the poor animals churned out in West Philly to be walking time bombs. Sadly, the second are FAR more common. Like guns, it's not responsible owners who are the problem, but everyone suffers nonetheless.

I am SO glad you said this! This is why I hate the whole pitbull thing. I have NEVER seen a pitbull owner in my area of NJ or NY that was not obviously being wwalked by a wanna be gang banger tough guy ass. There is a man just outside the border of my town who I saw walking around with his 2 pitbulls off the leash!!! These dogs where big and it was right around the a grade school. I was pissed! I was bit by a dog and had to get Rabie shots so maybe I have an issue with dogs, but pit bulls are usually used as status symbols and I doubt there are real regulations on what they call "breeders" for them.

[Selena]

And I don't know where y'all are, but in Philly, pit bulls are bred as status symbols by ignorant assholes who just want a dog like everyone else has. In other words, they don't give a fuck what dog mates with what dog, and the more aggressive and nasty and plain fucking crazy, the better.

Most full pits here are owned by the same kind of people here. Most pit mixes are not. I've known some really great pit mixes, though. And some not so great, too! :wink:

[Athalia Jewel]

Puppies do chew on things, but this is so far beyond normal chewing. From what I read in the article, I'd hazard a guess that the puppy had not been fed and went for the first thing he saw.

[Dmitri]

Dmitri? You wanna maybe not call a fellow poster "fucking ignorant," please?

And I don't know where y'all are, but in Philly, pit bulls are bred as status symbols by ignorant assholes who just want a dog like everyone else has. In other words, they don't give a fuck what dog mates with what dog, and the more aggressive and nasty and plain fucking crazy, the better.

Then it's not a pit bull. It's a mutt... AND STILL it's not a bad dog when its born. While, yes, individual animals can be bad, a whole breed is not. And I'm sorry, it *IS* fucking ignorant to believe so.

Now if you want to say that all pit bulls in South Philly are RAISED to be out of control, argressive time bombs, fine... I won't argue...

But to say that a 6 week old puppy is a dangerously aggressive animal by virtue of it's breed is just plain, simple, garden variety, mass media hype induced ignorance.

[Athalia Jewel]

Dmitri: You are entitled to your opinion the same as everyone else here, but it is possible to express it without resorting to knocking down other posters for expressing their opinions. I do agree with you about not blaming the breed; a dog's behavior is influenced by how it is treated by its owners. Earlier this year the hubby and I took our son over to the house of some friends who had just gotten a Rottweiler puppy and wanted to acquaint her with our son before she got to be bigger than he was. We have never had any problems with the two of them being together, and she has become a very sweet dog. (Ok, she's not a year old yet so technically still a large puppy)

[Lady Sarah]

I'm well aware that Dmitri is completely capable of defending himself, but I am also well aware that Dmitri isn't a PC kinda guy. He's going to call a spade a spade and if you don't like it, then tough on you.

Do I agree with what he said? Eh, It could have been phrased better, but I don't believe he was targeting Pansy specifically. I think he was making a blanket statement about the preconceived sentiment about Pits.

I'm just sayin', that's all. Asking D to be gentle and fuzzy with other posters here is like asking Bob to be baby-butt nekkid - not gonna happen.

[Dmitri]

Don't be *ignorant*...

That means look up the word and see that ignorant doesn't mean stupid, it means uninformed.

*Fucking ignorant* is believing fear inducing, mass media hype as gospel and being to lazy not caring enough to do research or want to know more than your evening news spews out of your idiot box.

Fucking ignorance is, in this case: Pit Bulls are inherently violent and aggressive, so much so, that a 6 week old puppy (a puppy that hasn't been fully weaned yet) is a dangerous and brutal animal.

I stand by my assessment of 'fucking ignorance' in this regard.

and I love you SARAH...

[Ysobelle]

Sigh. Dmitri's a big boy. He knows how to-- ahem-- not be a pit bull. Right, D?

Okay, whatever. But no, they're not mutts: they're pit bulls. They're full pit bulls. But they're bred to be crazy, aggressive, and did I mention crazy? They're meant to have a few screws loose, because that's the way their ignorant owners want them. They're overbred-- in some cases even line-bred (offspring back to parents) cos no one knows or cares. Or, even better, it's done on purpose to get an even crazier dog. A dog that will win when you set it against another dog in a backyard dogfighting ring.

You're talking about pit bulls bred by intelligent people who have a passing acquaintance with genetics. And no, their dogs are like any other dog: they have the instincts of their breed, but they're sane, loving, average dogs. I'm talking about the mass-produced genetic wreck that's flooded poorer neighbourhoods and that causes freak horrors like this story. And that is, sadly, far more common, and has ruined the Pit Bull Terrier name.

[DoñaNina]

I'm talking about the mass-produced genetic wreck that's flooded poorer neighbourhoods and that causes freak horrors like this story.

That's why I think they're illigal in DC, now. Such a shame.

[Selena]

And that is, sadly, far more common, and has ruined the Pit Bull Terrier name.

Man, is that ever right. The American Staffordshire Terrier as it's known in the ring of dog shows isn't the same as a "Pit Bull" in the ring of a dogfight.

[DameGoode]

Umm... when I left the hospital 7 weeks ago with my newborn after a c-section. The doctors, AND the nurses, AND the specialist (AND I SWEAR THE FREAKIN' FOOD PEOPLE) all told me multiple times, "keep the baby away from her older sister (13 months) and pets. Do not leave them in the same room alone."

My hospital was University Hospital in Cleveland oh. I can't imagine that I am an anomaly for those instructions.

And I did get a manual when I left.

[Lady Sarah]

That's why I think they're illigal in DC, now. Such a shame.

They're also illegal in Detroit - in any state of breeding, IIRC. Pure or Mixed, if they are seized by Animal Control, they will be put down. If anyone knows different, please feel free to correct me.

I think there's a push on to make them illegal to own here in parts of Texas too... but I'm not 100% certain on that.

[Ysobelle]

Man, is that ever right. The American Staffordshire Terrier as it's known in the ring of dog shows isn't the same as a "Pit Bull" in the ring of a dogfight.

Well, the Staffordshire isn't precisely the same dog-- but they're awfully close. They've all been ruined in public perception.

[daBaroness]

Illegal to acquire new pit bull or pit bull mixes in many municipalities in the Kansas City area. Yep - slackjawed breeding of a formerly fine dog - American Staffordshire Terrier (as has been said) into a beast bred to fight with another in a hole so they can't escape. Thus - pit bull.

And I may be fucking ignorant as well, but Pit Bulls (not ASTs) are bred by the aforementioned types (rural and urban) as status symbols and representatives of certain societal and personality types. Not different than any other dog breeding really. It's why labs and pointers are hunters, why my beloved dachshunds are short diggers and standard poodles are great water dogs that don't shed. It's why police depts. train dobies and German shepherds for law enforcement service. And while I find it repugnant - it's also why pocket puppies are so popular with talentless Hollywood bimbos - cuz they're so cuuuuuttte.

Breeders - even the stupid ones - get the idea that if you mate dogs with certain dominant traits multiple times - you'll make those traits part of a breed or at least part of a certain (coveted) bloodline of a breed. Hoity-toity dog show people will spend thousands to get a pup from a champion line in hopes they'll show well and produce the same traits in their progeny. So - it IS entirely about a breed. If people want a dog that's aggressive and tough they're not going to go for a miniature Chihuahua weighing 2.5 lbs dripping wet. They're going for a dog bred to be aggressive. And generally rich types go for an aggressive dog with higher status than the guy from down on the corner in the hood or the goatherder from Toadsuck, Arkansas. Voila - pitbulls or pit mixes bred to be bad to the bone.

So - I'm standing firm on my opinon that it's the breed AND the people who buy and breed animals to be crazy as an outhouse rat and viscious as a junkyard dog - it's cuz that's what they want and that's what they've strived to perfect in a breed or bloodline.

[Bonnie Strangeways]

But to say that a 6 week old puppy is a dangerously aggressive animal by virtue of it's breed is just plain, simple, garden variety, mass media hype induced ignorance.

AGREED! Gods, I love you......

[Bonnie Strangeways]

/snip/

And sorry - while I'm a dog lover - I do blame a breed - because the breed was bred to fight to the death. That's why they're called Pit Bulls. I guess I don't blame the breed exactly - but those who created the breed. I've heard all kinds of people defend the breed and say the same thing - it's not the breed - it's the people. But extreme aggressiveness is part of their inbred nature - and too many boogans like those in the story want them as an expression of their own "toughness," to exploit them as fighters, to breed them to earn money (because of those breed-specific tendencies), to guard their homes in a viscious manner or as some sort of status symbol.

Here in the KC area many municipalities have banned Pit Bulls because despite protests to the contrary - they were originally bred to be brutal fighters and killers and they continue to kill and maim humans "out of the blue." We had four deaths last year in this area from bit bulls attacks and others attacks and ensuing lawsuits where people weren't killed but were badly maimed.

No, they were NOT originally bred for agressiveness or killer instinct. See below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

"At one time every county in England had its own terrier. Many still exist, however, many have also come to pass or have mutated into a modern breed; such is the case for the English White Terrier and the Black and Tan, whose descendants include the bull-and-terriers, the Fox Terrier, and the Manchester Terrier. Terriers served a very real purpose in England. Vermin threatened people in more ways than just providing an unpleasant scare or as unwelcome guests; at their best, vermin ruined crops and damaged property; at their worst they served as a vehicle for fleas that carried the Black Plague. Terriers destroyed vermin efficiently and were easy animals to care for. As time went on the sports of badger and rat baiting — among others — caught on. It's from the terrier that pit bulls get their kind nature and juvenile behavior; it is also where the instinct to kill came from.

At the same time, Mastiff type dogs have existed in England for millennia. Their origins are somewhat uncertain, particularly because of myth. It can be assumed, however, that the Celts brought the Mastiff to Britain from the continent. It also known that the Normans introduced the Alaunt. Mastiffs of varying size existed on the Island for years, but it was not until the Renaissance that formal distinctions were made. These dogs were used in battle and for guarding, but they also served utilitarian purposes, such as farm work. Specifically, these dogs accompanied farmers into the fields to assist with bringing bulls in for breeding, castration, or slaughter. The dogs, known generally as bulldogs, protected the farmer by subduing the bull if it attempted to gore him. Typically a dog would do this by biting the bull on the nose and holding on until the bull submitted. Because of the nature of their job, bulldogs were bred to have powerful, muscular bodies, and the resolve to hold onto a violently-struggling bull, even when injured.

Eventually these dogs' purpose inspired the widespread practice of the bloody sports of bull-baiting and bear-baiting. In Elizabethan England, these spectacles were popular forms of entertainment. However, in 1835, bull-baiting and bear-baiting were abolished by Parliament as cruel, and the custom died out over the following years."

Interestingly enough, wiki also had this to say, right above....

"Pit bull is a term used to describe several breeds of dogs with similar physical characteristics. The American Pit Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier and the American Staffordshire Terrier commonly fall under the category of "pit bull." There are several other breeds that can fall under the rubric of pit bull, including: the Argentine Dogo, the English Bull Terrier, the American Bulldog, and the Perro de Presa Canario. These breeds are usually not included by breed name in any Breed Specific Legislation (see below), but are usually ensnared because of a broad definition, and confusion as to what a pit bull actually is."

Oh, and this is my favorite part:

"In fact many dog fancying websites and humane societies recommend pit bull type dogs as family pets because of their stable temperament, high pain tolerance, and desire to please people.[citation needed] However, because of their physical attributes and the social stigmatization surrounding them, the Pit Bull seems to be a popular choice among unsavory owners. Those who primarily want an animal to fight or to intimidate do not properly train or socialize their dogs and are partly responsible for the negative stereotype of the Pit Bull in today’s society."

[Lady Sarah]

My only problem with citing Wikipedia as a reference, is that while it does have good and useful information, it's not kept in check. Anyone can get a membership there and edit the information on any of the pages. Several pages I've seen on Wiki have had to be locked down while harmful/wrong/etc info was sorted out from the correct info.

I'm not saying what you've posted is wrong Bonnie, but just be careful with Wiki.

[Ysobelle]

http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_bull_terrier/index.cfm


Temperament
From the past history of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, the modern dog draws its character of indomitable courage, high intelligence, and tenacity. This, coupled with its affection for its friends, and children in particular, its off-duty quietness and trustworthy stability, makes it a foremost all-purpose dog.

There's no specific entry on the AKC site for Pit Bull Terriers.

[Bonnie Strangeways]

Agreed on wiki, also insighful information found here: http://dogs.about.com/cs/breedprofiles/a/pitbull_history.htm


Bottom line, there's absolutely no call to turn this into a breed-bashing post. The puppy was 6 weeks old.... not even old enough to be away from it's littermates.

Let's focus it back to where the blame truly belongs...the meatsacks that were supposed to protect and love that beautiful baby. Personally, there's no punishment wicked enough to fit this crime. I'll rank these wastes right up there with the lady that MICROWAVED her baby daughter. There just are nto words........

[daBaroness]

One thing we can agree upon is how horrible these so-called parents are. Talk about bad breeding!

Hopefully the child will be reared by someone other than these poor excuses for an intelligent species.

[Ysobelle]

Call me crazy...but now I'm wondering if it really was the dog, or the parents trying to cover something up.

Why "child desertion" when the baby was supposedly right next to them? Why did they not wake up, if it took at least an hour for this to happen, as so many of us have pointed out?

I can't wait to see how this pans out.

[Gemdrite]

Call me crazy...but now I'm wondering if it really was the dog, or the parents trying to cover something up.

Why "child desertion" when the baby was supposedly right next to them? Why did they not wake up, if it took at least an hour for this to happen, as so many of us have pointed out?

I can't wait to see how this pans out.
Well, child desertion could simply mean not helping their child when they were in a position to. Theoretically. I am really guessing. But that's what I thought of when I first read it. They deserted their child by not helping it in a dangerous situation when they were right. there. I could be wrong though. And I do think there is much more to this story than what is being said.

[Selena]

Well, child desertion could simply mean not helping their child when they were in a position to.

I'm more inclined to look up the LA state statute when I get a chance to do it.... to know what the legal definition under that state law says. (Although just like many laws, it's probably vague and subject to :ahem: interpretation.)

[Gemdrite]

I'm more inclined to look up the LA state statute when I get a chance to do it.... to know what the legal definition under that state law says. (Although just like many laws, it's probably vague and subject to :ahem: interpretation.)
According to http://www.legis.state.la.us/, I don't see any specific mention of child desertion, except under the jurisdiction of Juvenile Court. The only other mention I could find was thisL:

(2) "Criminal neglect of family" means the desertion or intentional nonsupport by a spouse of his or her spouse who is in destitute or necessitous circumstances or by either parent of his minor child who is in destitute or necessitous circumstances.

So I don't know. I hazarded a guess because that's how I interpreted the article, and I was too tired to look it up. Now, off to a final I go! My last one ever! Woo!

[daBaroness]

I heard on local radio this morning that the vet who examined the puppy in question said it would be his educated guess that since the puppy was really too young to be weaned away from its mother, it was probably trying to nurse - and confused the baby's toes for it's mother's teets.

This is just another unfathomable case of neglect and abject stupidity. Who in the HELL would be in the same room and not hear the cry of their infant child? Who in the HELL would put their infant to sleep in a car seat on the floor with a pet running around loose?!

Again I say - I hope these idiots never see this poor child again, muchless have a second chance! Game over - you lose!

[Selena]

Again I say - I hope these idiots never see this poor child again, muchless have a second chance! Game over - you lose!

Sadly, the reality is that chances are, they (whether together or with someone else) will breed again. Sucks that the courts can take away a child from it's fucked up parents, but cannot prevent a child from being born in the first place to a fucked up parent and situation.

[LdyJhawk]

Sadly, the reality is that chances are, they (whether together or with someone else) will breed again. Sucks that the courts can take away a child from it's fucked up parents, but cannot prevent a child from being born in the first place to a fucked up parent and situation.

There is a case I've followed of an aquaintance of one of my friends who has actually had children who were born to her taken away from her because of previous termination of parental rights. To the point that when she left the country to have a child later on, the canadian government removed the child from her while they were still in the hospital.

Unless the documentation was 100% forged, I believe it was real. What is unfortunate is that their case is not really deserving of severing parental rights (their disabled child slid out of her wheelchair and whacked her head, they took her to the ER..whackiness ensued) and off it went. They lost six children to the state before they took off out of the country and don't tell people where. They still send pictures, but none of them have location identifying info in them so they can share the kids they have now with grandparents.


....

[Selena]

There is a case I've followed of an aquaintance of one of my friends who has actually had children who were born to her taken away from her because of previous termination of parental rights. To the point that when she left the country to have a child later on, the canadian government removed the child from her while they were still in the hospital. ....

Now see, that's rather interesting. Unless said child was born to a mother who was already on drugs and under investigation, the US Supreme Court has already set a precedent that (as much as I might disagree to it... to a degree) this is a violation of the 14th Amendment.

[LdyJhawk]

Now see, that's rather interesting. Unless said child was born to a mother who was already on drugs and under investigation, the US Supreme Court has already set a precedent that (as much as I might disagree to it... to a degree) this is a violation of the 14th Amendment.

Hmmm..I will forward some stuff on to her if I can get ahold of her.

[Selena]

Hmmm..I will forward some stuff on to her if I can get ahold of her.

Yes, thanks-- I'd really be interesting knowing. I didn't think it was legal to have a pre-determination of parental rights termination based on a past parent/child relationship. It wasn't all to long ago that (I think it was a MI court?) a Michigan judge got his ruling overturned by the appellate court for his ruling that told a man he can't have any more children until he can take care of the ones he already has. Something like that. I think I even posted that case here sometime last year.

[Phoenix McHeit]

I heard on local radio this morning that the vet who examined the puppy in question said it would be his educated guess that since the puppy was really too young to be weaned away from its mother, it was probably trying to nurse - and confused the baby's toes for it's mother's teets.


I'm calling bullshit on this one. That vet is nuts. Mama-dog teats are tough, yes - but not that tough. There's no way that puppy would've gnawed on mama that way. My family raised dogs for most of my childhood. I've seen most everything. Birth, cleanup, nursing, weaning... you name it.

I'm with some others here - the puppy had nothing to do with it, & is being used as a cover for something else.

[Lady Sarah]

I'm calling bullshit on this one. That vet is nuts. Mama-dog teats are tough, yes - but not that tough. There's no way that puppy would've gnawed on mama that way. My family raised dogs for most of my childhood. I've seen most everything. Birth, cleanup, nursing, weaning... you name it.

I'm with some others here - the puppy had nothing to do with it, & is being used as a cover for something else.

Not to mention that if nothing came out, the puppy'd move on to other objects.

y'know, I was watching my eldest neice when she was a wee baby one day and not paying attention to what I was doing (she was laying on the floor at my feet while I sat at the table for a moment) I got up and stepped over her to get to the phone - and accidentally stepped on one of her feet. The ear splitting scream that ensued was enough to wake the dead - let alone bring my parents in from the back yard to find out what happened.

The more I read about this, the more I have to agree that something ain't stirrin' the kool-aid here...

[Magdalene]

This is just another unfathomable case of neglect and abject stupidity. Who in the HELL would be in the same room and not hear the cry of their infant child? Who in the HELL would put their infant to sleep in a car seat on the floor with a pet running around loose?!

Well....ummm....my mom used to do something similiar. She said my crawling infant to later six-year-old self would frequently curl up next to our OES on the floor, the beagle would flop his head on the OES' neck, and the parakeet would perch on the OES's head (that was one brave bird, putting himself right next to a beagle's nose) and we'd all sleep that way together for hours. My mom used to wander all over the house and not think twice about it. It kills her to this day that she doesn't have any surviving pictures of it.

My folks used to leave me alone frequently in a room with dogs, which would also include a rescued German Shepard (beaten and about to get dumped by his owner when my dad forcibly took him away) and a St. Bernard--both big dogs.

They only time in my life I've been bitten by a dog was by one that wasn't mine, but a friend's--a small toy poodle. (I petted him and touched a sore spot--he had arthritis. He bit my finger. Ow.)

I'm not saying this is necessarily wise, but I think a lot depends on the dogs and the kids.

In the case of this baby and her toes....something doesn't seem quite right.

[daBaroness]

I would definitely agree there's a LOT hokey about this story - from start to finish. Sad thing is, this one was reported. How many other cases of child and pet abuse are there that never see the light of day? I have to say, I've never thought of myself as being terribly naive - at least since about 1970 anyway. But I find myself continually shocked and horrified by the heinous things people do - to one another mostly - but to children and domesticated/companion animals in particular. The stupidity of people who unintentionally kill, maim or scar children and pets is dumbfounding and that's not even a drop in the ocean compared to those who plan and execute incidious acts.

There aren't enough jails, nor a punishment barbaric and painful enough!

[Laurensa]

http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_bull_terrier/index.cfm




There's no specific entry on the AKC site for Pit Bull Terriers.

From the website DogBite Law:


According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states: (italics mine)If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.>>


Yeah. Call me ignorant or whatever, but I'll never own a pit bull and I won't visit a house with one in it.

[moiradochartaigh]

From the website DogBite Law:


According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states: (italics mine)If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.>>


Yeah. Call me ignorant or whatever, but I'll never own a pit bull and I won't visit a house with one in it.

This is also the reason why most of the major homeowners insurance companies (including the one I work for) won't insure you if you own one of these dogs. Any dog can bite -- but some breeds have the potential for doing more damage than others. My mini dachshund may bite you if provoked, but it's not likely that she'll take off your finger...... or arm. Being an animal lover, though, it breaks my heart sometimes to tell potential customers "no" because of their beloved family pet.

I've seen the claim file photos of the aftermath of these dog bites.... not pretty. How an owner raises a dog makes a big difference -- who doesn't know a sweetheart of a pit bull or a marshmallow of a Rottie? One of our wench sisters here in New England has just about the sweetest pit bull as a helper dog who comes to faires with her. However, just about every claim I've seen in my 10+ years of underwriting was a first-time biting incident..... and usually completely unprovoked.

These breeds require special handling, constant supervision and lots of TLC.... which brings me back to the "parents" of this poor child. There has got to be something else going on here, and most likely not entirely the dog's fault. And what the hell were people who are forced to sleep on a mattress on their living room floor and who make their infant sleep in a car seat doing spending money on a new puppy? How about spending the cash on.... oh, I don't know...... a CRIB?!?!?!?

[LdyJhawk]

From the website DogBite Law:


According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states: (italics mine)If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.>>


Yeah. Call me ignorant or whatever, but I'll never own a pit bull and I won't visit a house with one in it.

*shrug* I guess in the end that just requires the owner to say "one less ignorant person to darken my doorstep". I know that's the case for me and mine that own the breed..

[renren]

:chomp:
::WTF::

What the..?
How can..?
Aaaaaaa!
You'd think having a baby and a puppy together in a household would warrant more caution than normal!!!???
Unthinkeable!!!

[Dmitri]

Yeah. Call me ignorant or whatever, but I'll never own a pit bull and I won't visit a house with one in it.

ignorant...

Honestly, right now the most dangerous dogs out there (those most likely to bite) are ones that have been overbred, especially in regards to looks. Dalmatians are one of the most biting breeds out there but everyone loves them cause they're cute with spots... And Jack Russell's are nigh on untrainable by the layman...

Rotties have the EXACT same disposition as golden retrievers... I'd trust a rottie, pit, dobie or shep long before I'd trust a Dal, Akita, or Jack Russel...

Research the breeds and she what they were ORIGINALLY bred for...

Dachshunds are mean SOBs... Why? they were bred to follow badgers into their dens and drag them out by the face... Dachshund = Badger-Hound...

[renren]

I agree, DON"T blame the dog!
It is/was too young and doesn't know right from wrong!
If the dog couldn't reach the baby IT WOULD'T HAVE HAPPENED!!

[Ysobelle]

So did anyone watch?


CNN to feature pit bull, baby incident tonight
December 13, 2006

From Staff Reports

Tonight’s Nancy Grace show on CNN Headline News will focus on the recent incident in Bossier City of a pit bull puppy gnawing an infant’s foot.

“She had a severe injury to one foot, with most of the toes missing,” Bossier City spokesman Mark Natale told The Times Monday.

Nancy Grace will ask more questions about the circumstances and consequences of the incident.

“How do they determine whether the dog will be put down or not? Are we talking jail time?” questioned Rupa Mikki, a producer with Nancy Grace.

Natale said the family had brought a mattress into the living room to watch television, and had fallen asleep.

The incident was reported to police around 8:30 a.m. Sunday. The infant underwent surgery later that day.

The children’s parents are Shannon Hansche, 22, and Christopher Wayne Hansche, 26, both of 700 block of Anthony Street. They were arrested on state misdemeanor charges of child desertion, according to Natale. The pit bull is in a 10-day quarantine. The infant is in the custody of state social workers.

Nancy Grace will air tonight at 7 on CNN Headline News.

[renren]

Oh, that poor,poor baby...
sad.

[LdyJhawk]

ignorant...

Honestly, right now the most dangerous dogs out there (those most likely to bite) are ones that have been overbred, especially in regards to looks. Dalmatians are one of the most biting breeds out there but everyone loves them cause they're cute with spots... And Jack Russell's are nigh on untrainable by the layman...

Rotties have the EXACT same disposition as golden retrievers... I'd trust a rottie, pit, dobie or shep long before I'd trust a Dal, Akita, or Jack Russel...

Research the breeds and she what they were ORIGINALLY bred for...

Dachshunds are mean SOBs... Why? they were bred to follow badgers into their dens and drag them out by the face... Dachshund = Badger-Hound...

It's weird, in all my interactions with pitbull terriers I have watched them get tugged/ridden/tumbled on and whacked around by kids playing. I've seen them carried by their feet, tails tugged on and they sit there taking it with quiet indignant looks. Never once in all the years have I seen or experienced one biting, nor have the people I know that owned them.

Toy poodle = still have scars on my fingers from where he decided my retainer was HIS toy thank you

Dachshund = cousin required 10 stitches under her eye when the dog went for her eye and caught her just under it when she moved

wire haired terrier/pom mix = bites at anything that gets close

pommeranian = bit my nephew three times before my brother's ex wife agreed to get rid of the dog...

[GraceHardGrave]

And the thing is, this goes to show people who want to ban Pit Bulls, that "every pit bull is evil."

You mean to tell me, this sweet little baby is evil. Screw that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/AmyBlackthorn/Peanut/peanutMommycuddle.jpg

[GraceHardGrave]

Pit Bulls are inherently violent and aggressive, so much so, that a 6 week old puppy (a puppy that hasn't been fully weaned yet) is a dangerous and brutal animal.

Someone explain to me how THIS sweet baby is violent and agressive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/AmyBlackthorn/mattPeanutseepin.jpg

[Torra]

And the thing is, this goes to show people who want to ban Pit Bulls, that "every pit bull is evil."

You mean to tell me, this sweet little baby is evil. Screw that.-snip-

I don't think that it's "every pit bull is evil" so much as the common perception of pit bulls is that they have a greater probability of violent behavior. I am now going to admit that I own a labrador, and that I would never want a pit bull, or dobermans in any sort of "pet" sense - I admit I do not have the ability to train them to the point where they would not be dangerous. But the problem, as I see it, is that they are harder to train to not be as dangerous. They were bred for fighting, and agression. While they're rarely used in that capacity anymore, they were still bred to it and only recently has that purpose been changed. Add to that problems of inbreeding or puppy mills and that is simply too high of a risk. And yes, you can buy from a reputable breeder, which will help. But what you try to do is train a dog (any dog) to behave and obey commands. The more agressive dogs are receiving training that directly contradicts the purpose they were bred for. And SOMEwhere along that dog's lines, it's ancestors were allowed to breed because they were agressive. And that common perception of pit bulls and the like as "evil" is from the purpose they were bred for and the difficulty in training them to be more compatible with human needs.

[Bonnie Strangeways]

And the latest claims ......





The FERRET did it.

Found here: http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/20/pitbull.baby.ap/index.html


I agree, there's something else going on. They better figure something out though....they're running out of animals to blame..........

[daBaroness]

My cat did it! My poor Ossie gets blamed for everything that goes wrong at my house - and has since my children were little. It's actually become a joke around our house - the minute something is misplaced or broken or whatever - Ossie did it!

But you're right - there's definitely something far more incidious at work here that's either not been discovered yet - or just hasn't been disclosed yet.

While this is a horribly tragic event, I can't help but seeing John Lovitz in my mind's eye saying, "yeaaaaah, the puppy, no the ferrett - yeah, the ferret did it. That's the ticket."

Pathetic.

[Ysobelle]

Mmhm. This is my surprised face.

[fresa3302]

We had a pit bull once when I was little. It did not chew off my toes. When I lived in Mexico my brother had a ferret. It did not hurt anyone either.

Our pit bull began nipping at my little sister. My mom decided to get rid of it. She gave it to a farmer. When the dog killed a sheep they decided to put it down. My point is not that we had an aggressive dog, but that we had a dog that was a potential danger to our family. My mom took care of it immediately so that my sister would not be harmed.

Here's the thing though; it does not matter if the ferret chewed those baby's toes or if the dog did it. What matters is that when the first bite was made and that baby started screaming (because we all know it screamed) the parents did not protect it.

We know that pit bulls have a reputation as being dangerous. That does not mean anything in this case. But we also KNOW that if a baby cries you check to see why it is crying.

This was not the fault of an animal. This is the fault of negligient parents. They were given a perfect child and did not appreciate it.

It will be interesting to hear if it even was one of the pets. There is definitely something fishy here.

[Torra]

At this point, I doubt anyone believes it was one of the pets. I'm just waiting for them to say it was the pet piranha. However, given that it's unlikely, I would think that investigators know something they're not letting on about and are continuing to look into the whole thing - probably from square one, when the baby (had better have been) was taken to the doctor, a doctor should be able to say if it was really gnawed off, and if so, if a small animal did it.