*shudders* Not for kids

[MaidMarion]

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/16/forced-rectal-exam-stirs-ethics-questions/

I know people are going to disagree with me here. But this artical hit me hard because I can relate.

the only arguemeny i can see was that he was treated for ahead injury which *may* have effected his thinking. But when it's sexual... (I know most people don't think of medical procedures as sexual, but when it involves penitration...

My relation to this is that I am a 25 year old virgin who has never even worn a tampon. Every year, I go to the GYN, get preached at about how important it is to get checked out. I end up saying nothign will penatrate me untill I'm married. I sign a waiver saying if I turn out to get cancer or something I can't blame them.

I can honestly say I will not be able to sleep tonight after seeing that artical because of the idea that some day a doctor may decide I *need* that pap smear and have me held down or sedated.

This man had anal penatration against his will! Medical procedure or not, this guy probally feels like he was raped. I know I'd be traumatized as all heck if I was forced to have an vaginal axame against my will.

Like I said, you may disagree with me. Please don't preach at me about how important screening are. Like this man, I am well aware of the importance of screening and, as an adult, for personal reasons, choose to take the risk.

*HUGS*

K.J.

[Gemdrite]

He didn't have family members to help him articulate his medical wishes, and that makes it okay to do whatever you want?! What kind of B.S. is that?! What part of "No thank you!" did the doctor not understand?

Sorry, I agree with K. J. on this one. It is my body. If I say no, that doesn't mean I'm out of my head. It means I don't want it. End of story. I hope he wins his case.

[Torra]

I have to agree with the KJ as well. The only reason I do is because he stated his wishes and was ignored. The theory that he was unable to articulate his wishes, or incapable of understanding the consequences is one I don't buy. Articulation? Done when he hit the doctor - seems pretty clear to me. Understanding? That's a bit harder, but I would choose to err on the side of assuming he can, and having him sign a wavier. That's not too hard, though I can see how it would be a bit more difficult in the emergency room vs. non-trauma.

[rosefaeries]

I know when I was training to be an EMT, (back in the stone age), unconsciousness is implied consent for life saving treatment or intervention. However, one does not sedate the patient in order to do so. We were told to wait until the patient became unconscious. (This never did sit right with me.)

The reasoning behind this was that if a person was unconscious it was presumed that they would want to have their life saved.

The man would have been asked questions to determine how with it he was. Like what day is it. There are diagnostic tools to assess metal awareness after a head injury. Especially in the hospital. The patient was conscious and was informed of the reasons for the exam. He made the decision to not have the exam. The health care personnel involved should be charged with assault.

The fact he was driven to the hospital is irrelevant. When I needed stitches on my thumb years ago, I was driven to the hospital. The fact I was driven there did not impair my ability to make decisions. I have also been driven to the hospital after receiving head injuries that required stitches. The fact I was driven there did not impair my ability to make decisions. (The fact my glasses were broken did impair my ability to drive though.)

[LadyLaura]

I hope he wins his case. To me, it does not seem at all like an "emergency" situation, as he was coherent, and had use of all four limbs. He made his preference known.

[Gellis Indigo]

If this did happen as it is explained, then there was a definite problem there.

But why do I get the feeling there is more to this story than is being publicized?

[Torra]

Because naturally there is. I don't know if the rest of the case would ever come out, but if it does, it'll be after the case is over.

[renren]

That's just WRONG,IMHO!
A refusal is a refusal!

[MisRed]

1. I agree that no means no.
2. I agree that any patient has a right to say no to medical treatment and sign a waiver that "opts out" (for lack of a better term) of a medical procedure under normal circumstances.

However, as someone who works in Quality Improvement in a medical facility, I have a little bit of reference the majority of the public doesn't.

The current standard of care for head trauma includes a rectal exam (to look for pelvic floor tone) that cannot be duplicated by another method that is as /cost effective/. (Sure, he could have gotten a CT Scan or an MRI, but the cost is astronomical compared to the benefit.) Patients with head trauma often become combative and confused, and legally if they had allowed him to say no (having come into an ED with head trauma involving stiches), sign a waiver and walk out; should the patient then react with paralysis or death the MD would have been sued for malpractice with a nice side of legal jargon stating that the patient was legally incapable of making the decision to not have the procedure performed because he /had a head injury/.

Unfortunately, the MD's are in a "Damned if you do; Damned if you don't" situation that will resolve in 1 MD out on their ear for trying to provide the medical care they felt the patient needed; 1 hospital trying to prove that they don't anally rape their patients; and 1 man trying to put his life back together from revealing information regarding his medical care that he allowed to be placed in the press.

Nobody "wins".

[Phoenix McHeit]

Patients with head trauma often become combative and confused,
*snippage*
Unfortunately, the MD's are in a "Damned if you do; Damned if you don't" situation that will resolve in 1 MD out on their ear for trying to provide the medical care they felt the patient needed; 1 hospital trying to prove that they don't anally rape their patients; and 1 man trying to put his life back together from revealing information regarding his medical care that he allowed to be placed in the press.

Nobody "wins".

Thank you. I, for one, didn't see what the heck a rectal exam would have to do with head trauma... and I have a feeling that this patient didn't either. If he was combative already, (as happens with head trauma) he might not have listened to the explanation... or may not have gotten an explanation in the first place....

Poor everybody. The patient, the hospital, the doctors... everybody except the lawyers, I suppose.

[Mistress Morigianna]

the rectal is a check for spinal injury

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

In an interesting development, hospital ERs in the West Village are reporting a spike in the number of patients presenting with head injuries....