No soup for you, fattie!

[Selena]

I am completely shocked that this kind of shit is thought of and actually written down by our (ahem!) lawmakers! :roll: I first saw this on Smoking Gun, but verified this on the State of MS's own legislature's site. This is appauling! Yeah, yeah... so it is probably dead before it even sees the light... but how DARE they even have the audacity to suggest such a thing!!

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0201081fat2.html

http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/2008/pdf/history/HB/HB0282.xml

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-01-2008/0004747717&EDATE=


MISSISSIPPI LEGISLATURE
2008 Regular Session
To: Public Health and Human Services; Judiciary B
By: Representative Mayhall, Read, Shows
House Bill 282

AN ACT TO PROHIBIT CERTAIN FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS FROM SERVING FOOD TO ANY PERSON WHO IS OBESE, BASED ON CRITERIA PRESCRIBED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH; TO DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT TO PREPARE WRITTEN MATERIALS THAT DESCRIBE AND EXPLAIN THE CRITERIA FOR DETERMINING WHETHER A PERSON IS OBESE AND TO PROVIDE THOSE MATERIALS TO THE FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS; TO DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT TO MONITOR THE FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE PROVISIONS OF THIS ACT; AND FOR RELATED PURPOSES.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MISSISSIPPI:
SECTION 1. (1) The provisions of this section shall apply to any food establishment that is required to obtain a permit from the State Department of Health under Section 41-3-15(4)(f), that operates primarily in an enclosed facility and that has five (5) or more seats for customers.
(2) Any food establishment to which this section applies shall not be allowed to serve food to any person who is obese, based on criteria prescribed by the State Department of Health after consultation with the Mississippi Council on Obesity Prevention and Management established under Section 41-101-1 or its successor. The State Department of Health shall prepare written materials that describe and explain the criteria for determining whether a person is obese, and shall provide those materials to all food establishments to which this section applies. A food establishment shall be entitled to rely on the criteria for obesity in those written materials when determining whether or not it is allowed to serve food to any person.
(3) The State Department of Health shall monitor the food establishments to which this section applies for compliance with the provisions of this section, and may revoke the permit of any food establishment that repeatedly violates the provisions of this section.
SECTION 2. This act shall take effect and be in force from and after July 1, 2008.

[Gemdrite]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything in the other thread, but this is a perfect example of what I was going to say. When Isabelle said that she was tired of the government doing things for the "common good" and everyone jumped on it with examples of the preamble and such, I agreed with her, but couldn't figure out how to explain what I was thinking. This was the perfect example of the government trying to decide something for the "common good" that isn't really any of their business, and this is what I personally am tired of.

[Ysobelle]

Okay, I wasn't going to say anything in the other thread, but this is a perfect example of what I was going to say. When Isabelle said that she was tired of the government doing things for the "common good" and everyone jumped on it with examples of the preamble and such, I agreed with her, but couldn't figure out how to explain what I was thinking. This was the perfect example of the government trying to decide something for the "common good" that isn't really any of their business, and this is what I personally am tired of.



Ah, but in this case, some flaming idiots are going to try to make a ridiculous law, and the rest of the local government will-- one hopes-- shoot it down like a flaming duck. Checks and balances.

[Phoenix McHeit]

Remember the 'School House Rock" episode 'I'm Just a Bill' ? This won't get any further than the 'steps'. Some local lawmaker wanted a few constituents to think he was listening to their 'needs'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dVo3nbLYC0

[MaidenFaeSnow]

What exactly is their farking point? Fat people shouldn't eat at all? I sure as heck wouldn't want to be the person to say, "I'm sorry ma'am, I can't serve you." "Why not?" "Because according to the standards we've been given you are obese." DUCK!

[Phoenix McHeit]

1) The provisions of this section shall apply to any food establishment that is required to obtain a permit from the State Department of Health under Section 41-3-15(4)(f), that operates primarily in an enclosed facility and that has five (5) or more seats for customers.


It's ok... street hot dog vendors are exempt. But those school cafeterias will have a surplus. Maybe they can make the 'fat kids' eat outside?

heavy sarcasm

[surlywench]

What exactly is their farking point? Fat people shouldn't eat at all?

well..the bill says "certain food establishments"...so my guess is that it would keep places like McDonald's and Burger King, which aren't bastions of Healthful eating by any stretch of anyone's imagination (a kids meal with apple dippers is still fat fried in fat, it's just got a side of apples) from serving those who are obese. so they could go otherplaces and get food, but only those with some sort of "health rating" or something.

now, that said, it's absolutely beyond ridiculous. this is NOT the answer to our nation's weight issues.

[surlywench]

It's ok... street hot dog vendors are exempt.
heavy sarcasm

WOOOHOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

omg. dogs and kraut and pretzels ALLLLL FOR MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom...death....nom.nomnomn omnomnomnomnomnomnom......

[Phoenix McHeit]

What exactly is their farking point? Fat people shouldn't eat at all?

More sarcasm here: Well, didn't you know? Fat people should stay HOME and not inflict themselves upon the decent, good looking population. If they'd just eat at home, instead of at McDonald's, they'd never be fat! Harumph harumph & all that rot.

[Gellis Indigo]

And here we go again. Did you check on the writer and sponsor of the bill?
Big surprise coming:

Another piece of legislation sponsored by another damned conservative Republican. Yep, a Republican. Just can't blame liberals, Democrats, Bill, Hillary, JFK, FDR or the New Deal. It is a Republican bill. So go change your registration and vote for the party of limited government, the Democratic party and stay away from those big government, no freedom Republican mullahs and their neo - con jihadists.

Mississippi is 2/3 obese. This bill was a way of drawing attention to the problem and forcing a discussion in the state house. The sponsors know such things are DOA as soon as they are introduced but it gets the media's attention and forces the legislature to look at realistic approaches to the problem. No one really intends for the 16 year old kid working the drive through to refuse to stick the bag out the window when he sees the driver is of ponderous proportions or a pizza delivery kid to 'rassle the pizza out of a customer's hands when he sees a fat woman hiding behind the sofa.
It is just harmless political theater.

"And here we go again". Nowhere in Gem's post did she say anything about it being a particular party's fault. She merely used it as an example of the government limiting individual freedom.

[MaidenFaeSnow]

And here we go again. Did you check on the writer and sponsor of the bill?
Big surprise coming:

Another piece of legislation sponsored by another damned conservative Republican. Yep, a Republican. Just can't blame liberals, Democrats, Bill, Hillary, JFK, FDR or the New Deal. It is a Republican bill. So go change your registration and vote for the party of limited government, the Democratic party and stay away from those big government, no freedom Republican mullahs and their neo - con jihadists.

Mississippi is 2/3 obese. This bill was a way of drawing attention to the problem and forcing a discussion in the state house. The sponsors know such things are DOA as soon as they are introduced but it gets the media's attention and forces the legislature to look at realistic approaches to the problem. No one really intends for the 16 year old kid working the drive through to refuse to stick the bag out the window when he sees the driver is of ponderous proportions or a pizza delivery kid to 'rassle the pizza out of a customer's hands when he sees a fat woman hiding behind the sofa.
It is just harmless political theater.

You are anti-Republican...got it. Whether this is meant to go anywhere or not, the fact that it is written and has been discussed - that it took up time and resources is disturbing in numerous ways. Ya know what? I'm technically obese, look through my window.

[MaidenFaeSnow]

Actually, I am not anti republican; i will vote repub this time in many local elections as the local guys are correct on immigration.

I am way beyond obese according to my skinny little doctor but I can still kick his 95 lb butt.

The bill did not waste time. It worked well, now the whole country is talking about obesity and possible public responses to it. The Mississippi house will possibly start looking at realistic ways of curbing obesity such as removing snack machines from schools, increasing PE or a myriad of other things. Obviously, the status quo wasn't getting the message across. This has.

As for the poor Republicans, I guess you haven't been reading the recent threads about which party or liberal/conservative pose a threat to individual freedoms and I contend that the modern Republican party is far more likely to infringe on our individual or economic provinces than the modern Democratic party.

I never said it wasted time, I said the fact that it took up time and resources was disturbing in numerous ways. I also never spoke to my views on any political party one way or the other, I commented on you being anti-Republican due to your bashing of them in your post. If I was off base, my apologies. The problem of obesity in this country, I personally don't believe is going to be impacted positively by forcing restaraunts to serve healtier foods (having those options are nice for those who choose them) in a significant way. I would love to have a healthy fast food place to go to that only served healthy foods (and I know they are starting to pop up out west) as an option but the choice in this free country should always be mine. I know quite a few larger people who are happy the way they are, healthy or not. I've known slim people who were far more unhealthy than the larger people I know.

You can get a nation talking about an issue all you want, the fact is it is expensive to eat healthy, more expensive than eating junk. It is costly to go to a gym. Many people have to commute to work in excess of 45min to an hour or more. The stress of daily life leaves little time for exercise in many cases and before you know it you just feel defeated. The slim people with big paychecks feeling the need to address the obesity issues looking for solutions to write down don't seem to 'get it'.

[Phoenix McHeit]

The slim people with big paychecks feeling the need to address the obesity issues looking for solutions to write down don't seem to 'get it'.

Well said.

[Gemdrite]

And here we go again. Did you check on the writer and sponsor of the bill?
Big surprise coming:

Another piece of legislation sponsored by another damned conservative Republican. Yep, a Republican. Just can't blame liberals, Democrats, Bill, Hillary, JFK, FDR or the New Deal. It is a Republican bill. So go change your registration and vote for the party of limited government, the Democratic party and stay away from those big government, no freedom Republican mullahs and their neo - con jihadists.

Mississippi is 2/3 obese. This bill was a way of drawing attention to the problem and forcing a discussion in the state house. The sponsors know such things are DOA as soon as they are introduced but it gets the media's attention and forces the legislature to look at realistic approaches to the problem. No one really intends for the 16 year old kid working the drive through to refuse to stick the bag out the window when he sees the driver is of ponderous proportions or a pizza delivery kid to 'rassle the pizza out of a customer's hands when he sees a fat woman hiding behind the sofa.
It is just harmless political theater.
Ya know, I am gonna let it go that you just completely insulted me. Not once did I mention any political party. I said government, and I meant government. If I had meant a party, I'd have said it.

It's insulting, demeaning, and demoralizing to those of us who are obese. Whether or not you are comfortable with your weight, having the government decide you are wrong, ugly, and "need help" is not the solution. What about the many people who are obese because of medical issues? Is there a special exception for them? Who decides what the "right" weight is? It's different for each individual person.

[LdyJhawk]

More sarcasm here: Well, didn't you know? Fat people should stay HOME and not inflict themselves upon the decent, good looking population. If they'd just eat at home, instead of at McDonald's, they'd never be fat! Harumph harumph & all that rot.

Someone from an LJ community pointed out that.. of course..at this point couch makers shouldn't be allowed to sell to fatties..and all fat people should have their cars and TVs taken away. They will then be forced (by whipping) to walk wherever they must go

[LdyJhawk]

Sorry, no insult intended.
Life expectancy pretty well determines the right weight. I stay overweight, thyroid and other issues don't help, plus I am fairly content with my lifestyle and just don't want to go to gyms or run anymore. Still, I don't get insulted when public health officials try to do something about the epidemic of obesity in the country, especially among the young.


But what about really fat old people? I mean, I used to be the one who took care of them during their 99 year old bouts of dementia so..I'm pretty sure fat != early doom

[Mistress Morigianna]

Why not use the money to start stupid crap like this and
give me some health insurance where i can go to a doctor and find out WHY i am not losing weight even though I do all the things you are suppossed to...
:ow:

[Selena]

the fact is it is expensive to eat healthy, more expensive than eating junk.

Precisely. As a long time vegetarian who tries to eat healthy most of the time, this is OH so true. Fast food places are EVERYWHERE... and they are relatively cheap. I generally don't eat fast food. So when I do find something that's somewhat decent and not just a bland salad, I'm spending double what my peer is spending for a burger and fries. Ever bother to look at the fruit plate of some places... quite expensive for a plate of fruit vs. chicken fingers.

[Selena]

You miss the point. The bill was simply a way to start the dialogue. No one seriously intended to empower servers to make a subjective judgment on who can or cannot order supersize or make us walk through a template.

You sure about that? Really?? Cos I've seen some pretty screwy laws being passed these days that I could have sworn I'd never see during my lifetime in this country.

And what dialogue? We are, and have been talking about the weight problem in this country... that's all we talk about these days yet it keeps getting worse each year.

[Gemdrite]

You can google it. He was trying to get the Miss state government to deal with the fact that they have the fattest population in the world.
I think this is what people are talking about in some of the other threads. You are the one saying that this is about dialogue, but you want us to go and do your research for you. If this guy is really saying that this is what this bill is about, *you* google it. You are the one trying to prove your point. I am not going to waste my time trying to research something I don't believe to be true.

[Gellis Indigo]

Sorry, no insult intended.
Life expectancy pretty well determines the right weight. I stay overweight, thyroid and other issues don't help, plus I am fairly content with my lifestyle and just don't want to go to gyms or run anymore. Still, I don't get insulted when public health officials try to do something about the epidemic of obesity in the country, especially among the young.

You miss the point. The bill was simply a way to start the dialogue. No one seriously intended to empower servers to make a subjective judgment on who can or cannot order supersize or make us walk through a template. There is a legitimate government role here. The taxpayers pick up tons (no joke intended) of medical expenses due to weight, just like with drugs or smoking, hence there is a distinct role for the government to play. One of the most obvious is the public schools. It insults no one to order soda machines and snack machines out of public schools or to require public schools to offer some vegetarian or low fat foods rather than hot dogs and packaged, high fat pizza slices. Kids get very little physical activity at school now, least mine do not, and are o burdened with homework there is little time left for playing outdoors. State governments should restore some balance in that area.

I understand that the bill was intended to get some adult public education rolling but I personally think it is a waste of time and money and efforts should be concentrated on the kids.

I don't buy the theory that this bill was intended to get any discussion underway. As others have stated, this discussion has been going on a long time. As a matter of fact, vending machines have been taken out of schools in this area for several years. It's even gone so far as to limit who can purchase ad space at local high school stadiums and gyms, because kids are too impressionable to see "Coke" adds at the local high school football game. There's something more going on behind this bill than "starting a discussion". And it stinks.
And as for the kids having limited time for physical activity both in and out of school, we can all thank "No Child Left Behind", a bi-partisan piece of legislation, for that mess. But that's a whole different issue in and of itself.

[Lady Hefron]

All I can say is that if I walk into a food establishment and they refuse to serve me because of a law that says I am "fat" there will be a scene like they have never seen.

I had gastric bypass 6 yrs ago because of health reasons...I was dieing. Technically, I am still overweight, but I am healthy and not dieing. God help the place that pulls this kind of garbage on me (legislated or not).

Sorry about the rant but I have been tortured by society because of my weight. I was actually physically assaulted because a group of young adults decided they didn't like the way I looked.

:takes a deep cleansing breath and gets another espresso:

[Selena]

I think this is what people are talking about in some of the other threads. You are the one saying that this is about dialogue, but you want us to go and do your research for you. If this guy is really saying that this is what this bill is about, *you* google it. You are the one trying to prove your point. I am not going to waste my time trying to research something I don't believe to be true.


Yeah, I tend to agree with you, Gem. Steve, I've already googled the friggin bill to prove my point that this proposed law is not rumor, but evidence supported by the state's own legislative website. Please provide me, now, with your evidence to support your statement, "You can google it. He was trying to get the Miss state government to deal with the fact that they have the fattest population in the world."
First, who is "he". There are 3 sponsors to this bill.

Also show me where MS is the fattest pop in the world. Yes, I have seen the stats they arethe current holder for the fattest in the nation... but the entire world?

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/80721.php
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Fitness/wireStory?id=3530932Moving on--- Proposing legislation to piss off and threaten humiliation to a section of the people isn't the solution. You can't criminalize an individual's outward perceived health, nor can you legislate people's eating preferences... healthy or not.

This is a societal issue because of certain ways certain cultures prepare their meals. Combine that with our fast food nation and all the refined foods out there, it's a dangerous environment that has become the norm.

[Selena]

Actually, you are trying to prove this bill was serious so prove it. You csn't.


Well, I don't know about YOUR state, but whenever MY state proposes legislation during their limited time in session, they are pretty serious about trying to get their laws passed is such a short period of time. These guys aren't lawmakers just to waste our damn tax dollars by introducing proposed laws just to waste everyone's time -- and theirs! Yeah, I DO take it seriously--

And please... let's NOT invoke Ron Paul into this discussion... he has nothing to do with this issue and frankly, I'd like to leave his name out of this thread for a change. I think by now we all know how you feel about Paul and it's of no bearing on this specific issue at hand.

Oh-- and all 3 sponsors? Well, 2 of them are in the pharma business.... HMMMMMMM ? :unamused:

http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/members/house/mayhall.xml

http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/members/house/shows.xml

http://billstatus.ls.state.ms.us/members/house/read.xml


Now look, I've done my homework to provide links to each rep -- now you do your part to show me where they even state they aren't serious about this proposed piece of legislation. Cos I've tried... and I can't find anything. This is what I found:

No food for fatties

You know how some of us keep warning about the slippery slope of stupid activist litigation and legislation meant to "improve" our lives in ways we never wanted, and how it will inevitably lead to absurd results? We warn that presuming people are too stupid to run their own lives will lead to lawsuits against tobacco companies, and Shazam! That's what happens. Then we caution that lawsuits against tobacco companies will lead to lawsuits against fast food companies for "tricking" people into super-sizing their fries and ... crap .. somebody takes the ball and runs with it. Then we raise red flags about outlawing products that people like but are bad for them, because that could easily justify banning ... oh ... margarine. Then some bastard goes and does just that. And I distinctly remember arguing that if you punish bartenders for serving drunks, you might as well fine waiters for putting a plate down in front of fat people. Now ...

Via Hit & Run (http://www.reason.com/blog/show/124751.html) comes news of proposed Mississippi legislation to ban restaurants (http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-fat-people-allowed-only-slim-will-be.html) from serving meals to fat people. No, I am not kidding, and neither is the author, Representative W.T. Mayhall, Jr. Says Sandy Szwarc of Junkfood Science:

I called lead author, Rep. Mayhall, and asked if this was serious legislation or tongue-in-cheek to make a point. He kindly took a moment to answer my question while the legislature was in session. He said that while, regrettably, he doesn’t believe his bill will pass, this is serious. He wrote it, he said, because of the “urgency of the obesity crisis and need for government action.” He hopes it will “call attention to the serious problem of obesity and what it is costing the Medicare system.”

http://www.tuccille.com/blog/



Your turn.

[Selena]

Ahh, so we are posting at the same time and pretty much posted the same references.

Funny... I see the man is serious about this bill. What if it did pass? What if the MS leg is just as serious as he?

Then what?

[Ysobelle]

No lawmaker would propose this bill and expect it to pass. Absolutely not. It's a walking civil liberties suit.

But hey-- here we are talking about it.

[Gellis Indigo]

This is pretty much unbelievable but is entirely true. Mississippi Representative W.T. Mayhall, Jr. has proposed legislation that would ban restaurants and food establishments from selling food to fat people. Sandy at Junkfood Science reports: (http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/01/no-fat-people-allowed-only-slim-will-be.html)[Rep. Mayhall] said that while, regrettably, he doesn’t believe his bill will pass, this is serious. He wrote it, he said, because of the “urgency of the obesity crisis and need for government action.” He hopes it will “call attention to the serious problem of obesity and what it is costing the Medicare system.” Sandy also links to the bill and its sponsors. Discussion at BABble. (http://babble.sneakykitty.com/index.php/2008/01/31/tell-me-again-that-fat-discrimination-doesnt-exist/)



Bolding and increased font size mine for emphasis. That particular sentence reads to me as if Rep. Mayhall was extremely serious about this bill, and the he truly would like to see it pass. That's what the qualifier of "regrettably" says to me in that statement.

[Selena]

Wow, you are rather gullible.

:sigh: Welp, so much for not getting personal and throwing insults into the mix. I guess I was hoping for much more than that.

[Gellis Indigo]

"he doesn’t believe his bill will pass"

Bingo, you got it! He knew from the outset it would not pass and he states he did it to draw attention.

As for the co - sponsors being in the pharm industry, they are much better off selling medicines for the health issues caused by obesity than they would be by preventing obesity. It takes years to get drugs on the market so I see no cynical self interest in what I read, just politicians trying to help their constituents. But,I am very gullible.

Again, my focus was on the word "regrettably", inplying that he would like to see the bill pass. That's where my concern lies.
And BTW, there's no need to be shouting. Can we bring it down a notch or two, please?

[LdyJhawk]

and once again, we have found ourselves at the impass of

"NUH UNH!"
"YUH HUNH!"
"NO YOU!"

The guy knowing it won't pass does not indicate the seriousness of his intention. I can know that I won't make it to the top of everest but if I start climbing you better believe I'm serious about getting there.

All this bill does is indicate a new version of discrimination in America. Someone else is declaring that because you don't meet their standards of what is acceptable, you will not be worthy of service and they have the right (as healthier, smarter people of course) to tell you you are wrong. I have a rather high IQ and a rather fat ass. If I want a whopper jr I better be able to order the damn thing. I'm smart enough to know it's not the best for me but hey, my US money spends in US stores.

It's funny but studies have shown (and I CAN dig them up, if you want me to. i have no transportation today) that increased morbidity is usually only found among obese patients in societies where it is stigmatized rather than accepted. Even population pockets among different ethnic communities ie: hispanic and african american show a higher level of acceptance for the obese and show less morbidity due to weight. Perhaps it's not the fat that's killing, it's the excess strain on the heart and mind brought on by constantly being told you aren't good enough so change to be like everyone else

[Gellis Indigo]

It's funny but studies have shown (and I CAN dig them up, if you want me to. i have no transportation today) that increased morbidity is usually only found among obese patients in societies where it is stigmatized rather than accepted. Even population pockets among different ethnic communities ie: hispanic and african american show a higher level of acceptance for the obese and show less morbidity due to weight. Perhaps it's not the fat that's killing, it's the excess strain on the heart and mind brought on by constantly being told you aren't good enough so change to be like everyone else

Now that, is an amazing and interesting study. And the hypothesis sure makes a lot of sense. Thanks for bringing it up LdyJ!

[shadowcat546]

Geez louise!
sounds like a mean law. But..they did penalize ahem..robust people.. in regards to airline seats right? (I can see that point about overlapping my "space" and making my flight squashed).

If I was an morbidly obese person person, I would be so riled up, that I'd pay a friend to go in to one of those restaurants, order something to-go, take it and (the fat person) eat it right on the front steps, in view of the windows of the restaurant, showing everyone (and probably talking loudly/nastily) that "fat people can do what they like".

What, are they going to prohibit the grocery stores too? "I'm sorry Mrs. Lardass, you can't buy Ho-Hos, that's not healthy food.." ?
Don't push the American people. We'll fight back.

[Phoenix McHeit]

I just don't find myself ever put down or discriminated against because of weight.

Maybe not - and if not, then consider yourself lucky - but you're not 'morbidly obese', you're overweight....and... you're male.

[LdyJhawk]

I have never had anyone approach me and say I was not good enough because I am overweight. Cafeteria workers give me larger portions sometimes than they give others in line but I know they have no ill intent. Doctors gently caution me as my cholesterol goes up and down with my weight but they are never nasty. I have had drivers yell weight based insults but if I was skinny they would be yelling "wimp" or something.
I just don't find myself ever put down or discriminated against because of weight.

That's nice. I'm obese. I admit it. I am a size 22 5'10 inch tall fatass caucasian girl.

I have been called names as I walked down the street from people in cars. I had a "man" scream "get off the phone you fucking whale" as I was calling my workout partner OUTSIDE A GYM to ask where she was. I've had people ask me if I really needed to eat that when I added a jello cup to my tray in a cafeteria. I've had people I don't even KNOW walk up and hand me ads and cards for their personal weightloss services and tell me how much better my life would be better if I was thin.

I've been told I couldn't go on a carousel with my nephew to STAND THERE with him because they didn't know if it'd be safe if "someone my size" fell down.

Yeah, so being fat in the US is a free for all for being mocked and told you aren't good enough. It's open season for people who don't know you from the hole in the wall to come up and lecture you on how you have no self control or common sense and if you'd just TRY HARDER you could totally be thin

[LdyJhawk]

Maybe not - and if not, then consider yourself lucky - but you're not 'morbidly obese', you're overweight....and... you're male.

Thank you. What's sad is that I know some lovely tall women who are about a size 10..and they're still considered "morbidly obese" by the BMI charts..

[surlywench]

Thank you. What's sad is that I know some lovely tall women who are about a size 10..and they're still considered "morbidly obese" by the BMI charts..

Hai! My name is Surly, i'm 5'5" and I weigh 180 lbs. According to the BMI charts my "ideal healthy weight" is oh...in the neighborhood of 130. HA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :gasps: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa!


I hit 100lbs in FIFTH GRADE and NO ONE would have called me "fat". By high school i was a healthy 140, with a 28 inch waist no less - and yet somehow that was still 10lbs heavy? the BMI charts are *not* as functional as a "one size fits all" tool :( Those of us who struggle with our weight know this.


And yes, you really DO get hit from a different angle when you are both overweight AND female. People are rude, invasive and just flat out *mean*. My weight, struggles with or acceptance of, is NO ONE's business but MY OWN. If I'm in a health food store ASKING for advice, then guess what? It's okay to fill me in on the latest in nutritional science. Otherwise? I *know* the nutritional content of most of what I eat. It's my choice. Just like it's *also* my choice to get on the bike for 20 minutes 5 days a week. But no one sees that b/c I don't exercise on main street. duh.

[MaidenFaeSnow]

I have never had anyone approach me and say I was not good enough because I am overweight. Cafeteria workers give me larger portions sometimes than they give others in line but I know they have no ill intent. Doctors gently caution me as my cholesterol goes up and down with my weight but they are never nasty. I have had drivers yell weight based insults but if I was skinny they would be yelling "wimp" or something.
I just don't find myself ever put down or discriminated against because of weight.

Then your are one of the few, not the general rule.

[Selena]

Maybe not - and if not, then consider yourself lucky - but you're not 'morbidly obese', you're overweight....and... you're male.

Exactly.
Steve, I'd be willing to bet you've never ever ever had some stranger look at your belly and seriously ask you, "So... when are you due??" :unamused:

[LdyJhawk]

Hai! My name is Surly, i'm 5'5" and I weigh 180 lbs. According to the BMI charts my "ideal healthy weight" is oh...in the neighborhood of 130. HA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :gasps: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa!


I hit 100lbs in FIFTH GRADE and NO ONE would have called me "fat". By high school i was a healthy 140, with a 28 inch waist no less - and yet somehow that was still 10lbs heavy? the BMI charts are *not* as functional as a "one size fits all" tool :( Those of us who struggle with our weight know this.


And yes, you really DO get hit from a different angle when you are both overweight AND female. People are rude, invasive and just flat out *mean*. My weight, struggles with or acceptance of, is NO ONE's business but MY OWN. If I'm in a health food store ASKING for advice, then guess what? It's okay to fill me in on the latest in nutritional science. Otherwise? I *know* the nutritional content of most of what I eat. It's my choice. Just like it's *also* my choice to get on the bike for 20 minutes 5 days a week. But no one sees that b/c I don't exercise on main street. duh.

Oh honey, I had a doctor tell ME I should be 130 lbs to be "healthy". I'm 5'10. I actually laughed in the office and asked them if they were using Dr Mengele's standards for health or something.

Also, every time someone tells me if I could just "get up and move" I'd lose weight it makes me want to start carrying around a dvd of me walking 45 minutes on a treadmill at 3.0 - 3.5 mph 6 days a week so that they can then find something new to tell me would just tip the scales in my weight loss favor

[LdyJhawk]

Exactly.
Steve, I'd be willing to bet you've never ever ever had some stranger look at your belly and seriously ask you, "So... when are you due??" :unamused:



..I had to explain to Will why it was bad to do that. I used the words, "unless you see a child actively being expelled from a vagina, it's best to just assume that the person is a bit fat and let it be. OR if someone starts talking about their pregnancy in front of you, then it's safe"

[surlywench]

Exactly.
Steve, I'd be willing to bet you've never ever ever had some stranger look at your belly and seriously ask you, "So... when are you due??" :unamused:

It's so true. The only socially acceptable reason for a woman to be fat is if she's pregnant.

[Jamianne]

I've gained about 70 pounds in the past 2 years. Half of it from going from a field to a desk job and half from being pregnant. It's a world of difference in how I've been treated. I used to love going out to eat - hate it now. I hear comments and get nasty looks and unwanted advice from complete strangers. The worst is when I'm out with Gwydion and people say "oh, you should get healthier for your baby." Screw you. My doctor would like to see me loose some weight, especially since I have spondilosis and diabetis runs on both sides of my family - but even he's said that overall, I'm perfectly healthy. I *know* I may not have the best eating and exercising habits in the world. But I'm also an adult and don't need to be told "you can't eat that because you're fat." I have a college education and am perfectly capable of making my own food choices, thanks.

[LdyJhawk]

Actually, I have. At that very moment, I decided my drag queen days were over forever. Then I ran over the skinny little smartass.

Seriously, I have had people pat my belly and make such comments a couple of times. It is not something I relish but in light of the real miseries in the world, such petty nonsense doesn't rate very high on my scale. You all must live in pretty mean areas if you encounter this type of stuff often. You oughta move somewere more kind and gentle but not here, we are out of water.


I've lived in a small midwestern town. I've lived in Seattle the "do what you want, we won't judge you for realsies" area of America and now I live in Silicon Valley. How many more times do I have to move before I stop encountering judgemental assholes?

[Gemdrite]

Actually, I have. At that very moment, I decided my drag queen days were over forever. Then I ran over the skinny little smartass.

Seriously, I have had people pat my belly and make such comments a couple of times. It is not something I relish but in light of the real miseries in the world, such petty nonsense doesn't rate very high on my scale. You all must live in pretty mean areas if you encounter this type of stuff often. You oughta move somewere more kind and gentle but not here, we are out of water.

I have to tell my doctor that I am not "morbidly obese" as that is what he has on my chart. According to the chart I just used, I am merely "Severely Obese." Now I feel all better except for the fact I decided to have a gout attack this afternoon so at the moment, I feel pretty damn morbidly something or another.
Ya know, I think at this point ladies, it's rather pointless to try and debate with him. He is *obviously* above all such "pettiness" as being discriminated against because of his weight. We don't see it the same way he does, and so we'll keep running in circles.

I think Julie Roberts said it best in Pretty Woman, "People put you down long enough, you start to believe it....the bad stuffs easier to believe. Ever notice that?"

It's really hard to ignore something that is thrown in your face on a daily basis, and sometimes it isn't even intentional. The unintentional is easier to ignore, somewhat, but combined with the intentional, and your life can be hell. And in America, where it is simply not acceptable for a woman to be overweight, it happens daily, no matter where you live. There was a great movie on Lifetime the other night about a popular girl who does an experiment and wears a fat suit, taking on a whole other personality. It was a really interesting movie to watch. If I can remember the name, I'll post it, and I highly recommend watching it.

[Guinevere]

... in America, where it is simply not acceptable for a woman to be overweight, it happens daily, no matter where you live.

This has been an interesting point of debate, being as I have lived outside of America for a few years now. This and an intercultural marriage has served well to put some perspective on the matter.

Ladies, there's no way to put a finer point on the subject - it just ain't like this elsewhere. I've lived in three countries and this is the only one where size is harped on to the point where it can make someone have a nervous breakdown. The "culture of fat", as my husband has come to call it, is almost a purely American thing.

It's not that fat people don't exist in Britain and Ireland. They most certainly do. However, they are not invisible! The first time I went clothes shopping after moving to england, I cried. I was standing in the middle of Marks & Spencers, clutching a fistful of bras that were not only pretty but in my size (big), and crying. I have never been able to march into Victoria's Secret and pick up something smaller than a canvas tote bag with about half a dozen cast iron hooks embedded...and here I was, holding the same bra and pants that were on the mannequin...in my size.

The fact that this was an event that could move me to tears was the start of me realizing just what a nasty obsession America has with weight - and just how demeaning it really is.

With a few exceptions, the British clothing industry has learned to cater to the portion of the population which can and does exist - those of us who are not a size four. I can walk into most - not all, but most - clothing stores on the high street and find sizes up to 22, sometimes higher.

Why the US continues to ignore or belittle a segment of the population which is fast becoming the majority, i'll never know.


There's more to this, but I am distracted by Kevin Smith on the telly.

[Phoenix McHeit]

Actually, I have. At that very moment, I decided my drag queen days were over forever. Then I ran over the skinny little smartass.

Seriously, I have had people pat my belly and make such comments a couple of times. It is not something I relish but in light of the real miseries in the world, such petty nonsense doesn't rate very high on my scale. You all must live in pretty mean areas if you encounter this type of stuff often. You oughta move somewere more kind and gentle but not here, we are out of water.

I have to tell my doctor that I am not "morbidly obese" as that is what he has on my chart. According to the chart I just used, I am merely "Severely Obese." Now I feel all better except for the fact I decided to have a gout attack this afternoon so at the moment, I feel pretty damn morbidly something or another.

Y'know Steve... while I like debating with someone intelligent...

there are times - like this - when you really come off as a supercilious, self-centered prig.

Not everyone really enjoys having their serious points thrown back at them in a belittling manner. Just to let ya know.

[Andreadoria]

WOW! Just finished reading this thread.

First..... HI my name is Terry I am 5'2" and yes a whopping 300 lbs of female with a big fat ass. I was always just about 10 to 20 lbs over weight growing up, and picked on by my whole family. Thanks to an undiagnosed thyroid condition from preteen years I have been progressively gaining weight. At the age of 22, I was 220 and 50% fat to 50% muscle. A weight loss doctor(medifast) at the time could not figure it out, and as of today I am still as strong as an ox.

I live in NYC the land of looks, Dam Mayor Bloomberg, Has been doing just the same thing. First Trans fat, Yeah it's bad for your but it's my choice. Any restaurant caught selling it is fined and might loose their license. Then there was an attempt to control SALT!!!. Yes he was trying to control salt sales. It almost passed. WTF!!!

If any more laws like these are allowed soon the fat people of America will be jailed till they can control their weight.

If my memory is correct the Island Nation of Tonga was the heaviest in the world. The King of Tonga encouraged his people to loose weight with contests and rewards, not ridicule and shame...Hint...Hint America. They are now one of the healthiest.

I am picked on and chastised in white neighborhoods, and in neighborhoods of color and multi cultural backgrounds of recent immigrants, I am asked out or hooted or hollered at in a creepy way...LOL.

As for work, I am over looked for promotion, I have a city job, the community college I work at has a chief operating officer that is a size 0 and goes for every plastic surgery there is, she is the most prejudice woman around, she has placed all the over weight people out of site and treated like crap till we leave.

The BMI needs changing, cause if I am ever able to keep my weight down to 200lbs my mussel mass will go back to 50%, %50 so something is wrong they say I should be 110, I am not built for 110

Then the media needs to change their views, all of Europe knows people are all different sizes, Why not AMERICA!!!

[Buxom Wench]

I think Julia Roberts said it best in Pretty Woman, "People put you down long enough, you start to believe it....the bad stuffs easier to believe. Ever notice that?"

Funny you should bring that up. I said that to someone just a short while ago as it pertained to me growing up.

Thanks Gem. ::hug::

(bold & green are mine)

Edited to add: by the by, I'm 5'6", weigh over 200 pounds and have struggled with my weight all of my life. The dr. says I should weigh 148...and in my opinion, look gaunt and anorexic. No thanks!

[Gemdrite]

This has been an interesting point of debate, being as I have lived outside of America for a few years now. This and an intercultural marriage has served well to put some perspective on the matter.

I should clarify. I meant anywhere in the U.S, because most of us live here and we don't leave the country much.

[Ysobelle]

Okay, my take on it?



Clothing, if you're lucky, is loose. Horses get loose. You can be a loose woman, a loose cannon, or a loose goose. But if you're trying to get thin, you're trying to lose pounds.

Lose has lost its extra o.




Just playing fast and loose, here.

[Jamianne]

What?
I just can't see letting these petty, snide remarks affect your life.

I'm glad you're able to rise above it. But for many of us, it's not that easy. Could I lose weight? Sure. I know exactly what I need to do in order to do so. However, at the moment, I'm focusing all my time and energy on my son, not myself. That's my choice. Society, however, tends to not respect our choices if we don't fit into what's "aceptable". Someone overweight who orders a burger and fries "shouldn't be eating that." And will be told so.

Now, I'm *not* saying that men don't have to deal with issues of being overweight, however, from what I've personally seen, it's more acceptable for men to be overweight than women. Dave is carrying a few extra pounds, and women will flirt with him in front of me while looking at me like I'm a piece of gum stuck to their shoe. (Fortunately, he tells them to shove off!) Look at the media - how many shows and movies show an overweight guy married to or dating a thin, beautiful woman? I can't think of any that show that has an overweight woman married to a thin, handsome man.

[Lady Hefron]

Political debate aside, what really bothers me about this is that a legislator thought it was ok to write a bill, whether he expected it to pass or not, that would, in effect, legalize a type of discrimination against people who suffer from obesity. There are better, more effective and less cruel ways to start a conversation about this issue.

I am 5' 7" tall and was well over 400lbs and let me tell you, I almost became house bound because I couldn't go out without some witless individual making a cruel comment about me. I actually had a chinese buffet try to charge me double for the all you can eat buffet because of my size. The country does treat obese men and women differently.

Just my .02

[Guinevere]

... however, from what I've personally seen, it's more acceptable for men to be overweight than women.

Precisely. This is an issue my husband has struggled to understand and has finally had to admit that he just can't get it. There is a unique social pressure upon American women and women alone to be "thin". Men do not receive the cultural reinforcement from every angle that we do.

[Ysobelle]

Every once in a while, I'll watch the British show "You Are What You Eat." And while yeah, it's a show about eating, the emphasis is on health, not pant size. The changes people make are in their daily diet and amount of exercise. There's no huge Extreme Makeover finale-- the lost weight is presented as a fabulous by-product of what happens when you ditch the every-meal-fried, wouldn't-know-a-brisk-walk-if-it-kicked-you-in-the-ass lifestyle. People on the show get their poo lab-analysed quite harshly to show how they've been abusing their systems. It's NOT a glamorous show.

And here in America we have Extreme Makeover, with its message that once you're thin and pretty, everything's magically better.

[Guinevere]

Britain is much more health-conscious, to the point of being referred to as a "nanny-state". There has been a shift in thinking there, and it's very prominent. Health, wellness, and mental well being are taken VERY seriously - far more seriously than in the US. I feel that it's far easier to lead a healthy lifestyle in Britain as a whole (despite the allure of chips...mmm....) and that help and support are far more accessible there than they are in the US.

I don't know why these things are different, but they are. It makes no sense to me.

Edited to add: if you can find it, this latest from Jamie Oliver is quite eye-opening.

http://www.channel4.com/health/microsites/J/jamie_eat/

[Selena]

Every once in a while, I'll watch the British show "You Are What You Eat."

Yso,
Is that on BBCA, or is it only shown in the UK? I'd like to check it out.

[Ysobelle]

Yso,
Is that on BBCA, or is it only shown in the UK? I'd like to check it out.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/tvschedule.jsp

Weekdays at 11 & 11.30am, then 4 and 4.30pm. Saturdays at 12 & 12.30. Lots and lots of very, very good advice. Immediately preceeded by "How Clean Is Your House?", in which a duo of intrepid, no-nonsense, outspoken women find the dirtiest, filthiest, most cluttered and disorganised homes in Britain, and clean them top to bottom using no-frills, common-sense methods and, usually, home-made, eco-friendly cleaners. The first time I saw this show-- and its lab analysis of what precisely was growing on one utter slob's commode, I went FLYING into my bathroom and SCRUBBED the toilet.

Two hours of BBC that will either make you healthier or utterly despondent.

[DoñaNina]

"You Are What You Eat" is a great show. I saw an episode the other day where this one couple was basically drinking 10 glasses of vegetable oil a week. Ugh.. I've never even SEEN eggs prepared by deep frying them. That one made me gag.

[Selena]

"You Are What You Eat" is a great show. I saw an episode the other day where this one couple was basically drinking 10 glasses of vegetable oil a week. Ugh.. I've never even SEEN eggs prepared by deep frying them. That one made me gag.

Actually, an episode recorded while I was at the gym... I'm watching my first show of it right now as a vacuum the house.

[Phoenix McHeit]

. I've never even SEEN eggs prepared by deep frying them. That one made me gag.

That's nothin on good ol' Southern cookin'. My grandma would make bacon & eggs every breakfast. Fry up the bacon first - fatback, actually - then use the same pan (not emptied) for the eggs.


We used to tease Gran that you didn't need to chew her eggs - just tilt your head & they'd sliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide right down.

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[ambar]

WOW! Just finished reading this thread.

First..... HI my name is Terry I am 5'2" and yes a whopping 300 lbs of female with a big fat ass. I was always just about 10 to 20 lbs over weight growing up, and picked on by my whole family. Thanks to an undiagnosed thyroid condition from preteen years I have been progressively gaining weight. At the age of 22, I was 220 and 50% fat to 50% muscle. A weight loss doctor(medifast) at the time could not figure it out, and as of today I am still as strong as an ox.


Thank you! I'm 5'4" and I weigh around 300 +/- given the day and my mothers whole family is large. We also have thyroid conditions (my grandmother had to have a goiter removed) along with a native american metabolism that seems to be somewhere south of Chile.

Until I got diagnosed with Diabetes (multigenerational family thing), I ate one meal a day and usually had to force myself to do that because I was never hungrey and also never lost weight even though I was constantly moving (we had horses. Feeding, cleaing stalls, rebedding stalls, etc) Now I have to struggle and make myself eat four little meals a day and still not loosing weight.

Everytime I see some starlet saying "just eat less" I want to reach through the TV and beat her scrawny a** into oblivion. And I do understand I have a bad attitude on the topic.

And DO NOT EVER DOUBT the truth that heavier people are discriminated against. It is the simple factual truth. I recall in the 90's a 60 minutes type thing with a woman in a fat suit and a skinny woman were sent for a job interview (same job) The heavy woman was a letter perfect fit for the job and the skinny woman had no experience. They offered the job to the skinny woman.

[DoñaNina]

That's nothin on good ol' Southern cookin'. My grandma would make bacon & eggs every breakfast. Fry up the bacon first - fatback, actually - then use the same pan (not emptied) for the eggs.

..actually, I do that sometimes too. >_> But not often, I swear!!

My roommate and I also save bacon fat in a tupperware container.. *cough*

[DoñaNina]

Everytime I see some starlet saying "just eat less" I want to reach through the TV and beat her scrawny a** into oblivion. And I do understand I have a bad attitude on the topic.


I totally agree. Eating less does nothing but stall metabolism. All that has ever worked for me was doing Atkins, and I eat CONSTANTLY.

[rosefaeries]

..actually, I do that sometimes too. >_> But not often, I swear!!

My roommate and I also save bacon fat in a tupperware container.. *cough*


A little bit of bacon grease for flavoring and ease of cooking isn't going to hurt you (as a general rule). Drowning your food in it to cook that is not a good thing.

I usually cook our eggs and potatoes in the bacon grease while camping. Makes things a lot easier. I do pull out the excess grease when making the scrambled eggs. But then we use it for the potatoes.

[Phoenix McHeit]

Yup I love adding the flavor... but this would be more of boiling-in-lard than a dash of flavor. gag.

[LdyJhawk]

Man and I thought I was doing it badly when I would pour the bacon grease out and then just not wipe out the excess that clings to the pan before scrambling eggs...the thought of basically floating food in bacon grease is just..*urp*

[LitlePepito]

Hai! My name is Surly, i'm 5'5" and I weigh 180 lbs. According to the BMI charts my "ideal healthy weight" is oh...in the neighborhood of 130. HA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :gasps: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaa!


Personally I can’t help but think the bmi index needs to be reevaluated as well. It use to be if you were over 30 points you were then considered over weight, ever since its been dropped to 20 I’ve been technically obese. While I can’t relate to some of you, I can’t help but think its screwed up when I’m only 5’2 weight 138 and considered overweight according to the bmi. Sorry to say this, but Christ on a Cracker, how much weight do I have to lose!! I exercise 4 times a week for at least an hour. Yes my stamina has gone up, so has my strength, but my weight has gone up and down within 10 pounds. And I don’t eat fast food, at this point its all home cooking. Would this mean according to this bill that I could order broccoli from a menu but not the ice cream sunday?

As for trying to be 130 pounds at 5'5", wahahahahaha!! I totaly agree with you, if your healthy at 180 forget what the bmi says. After all who wants to be size 0 anorexic girl. Personally I like having some curves as opposed to pointy bones.

[Andreadoria]

http://www.bbcamerica.com/tvschedule.jsp

Weekdays at 11 & 11.30am, then 4 and 4.30pm. Saturdays at 12 & 12.30. Lots and lots of very, very good advice. Immediately preceeded by "How Clean Is Your House?", in which a duo of intrepid, no-nonsense, outspoken women find the dirtiest, filthiest, most cluttered and disorganised homes in Britain, and clean them top to bottom using no-frills, common-sense methods and, usually, home-made, eco-friendly cleaners. The first time I saw this show-- and its lab analysis of what precisely was growing on one utter slob's commode, I went FLYING into my bathroom and SCRUBBED the toilet.

Two hours of BBC that will either make you healthier or utterly despondent.

I so love that show Kim and Aggie are so great, and those people Arugh!!...but they seem to help most of those people out of their ruts.