Scary McCain/Palin supporters at rally.

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E

And the really scary part is that they vote.

[LdyJhawk]

Wow..

[Andreadoria]

I am afraid, sooo very afraid. I know I do not want McCrochy and air head. What this country is in for.

[BronxGirl]

You betcha! *wink*

[Selena]

McCain = McCarthy
Palin = Stalin

well shiiiiiiiiiit. them must be the same folks, eh? Sounds just like 'em!

[Winifred Baskerville]

I could only watch a few seconds of it... God, that was painful.

[Isabelle Warwicke]

That guy is an idiot. And a douche.

Good Lord, I know you are smart enough to know that he does not represent the rest of my party. Right?

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

That guy is an idiot. And a douche.

There was only one? ;-)

[Ysobelle]

Will my head explode if I go look at this?

[Ocasio]

That guy is an idiot. And a douche.

Good Lord, I know you are smart enough to know that he does not represent the rest of my party. Right?

:roll: ..and if YouTube wasn't democrat then there would be equally embarrasing Obama supporters out there, trust me, I've met them and they are equally scary. So it's not the party, it's just Americans on the street.

[Ysobelle]

How is YouTube Democrat?

I never could get them to take down the screamingly anti-Semitic crap that's up there. Trust me, that's not Democrat.

[Ocasio]

How is YouTube Democrat?

I never could get them to take down the screamingly anti-Semitic crap that's up there. Trust me, that's not Democrat.

I've heard enough of the complaints that there are people posting anti-Obama vids that they get them removed by YT and they claim it isn't inappropriate material; I'll try to find a legit reference for you. [EDIT] I googled: 'YT biased for Obama/democrats' and similar text and found alot of interesting material supporting the claim.

[Winifred Baskerville]

That guy is an idiot. And a douche.

Good Lord, I know you are smart enough to know that he does not represent the rest of my party. Right?

Yesh. That first elderly dude was right, the interviewer just wanted a sound byte. Of course the interviewer went for the people who would say "Obama's a terrorist, look at his name!" and other crap. That's what makes it painful to watch.

Same reason I don't watch certain comedies. :)

[RichardMacHugely]

Yesh. That first elderly dude was right, the interviewer just wanted a sound byte. Of course the interviewer went for the people who would say "Obama's a terrorist, look at his name!" and other crap. That's what makes it painful to watch.

Same reason I don't watch certain comedies. :)

Given that both McCain and Palin are making constant insinuations that Sen. Obama is involved with terrorists it is silly to now claim that the angry nutcases captured in those videos are somehow only representative of the "fringe". These aren't crazy statistical outliers, they are taking their cues directly from the top of the GOP ticket.

When McCain himself asks in sinister tones "Who is the REAL Obama?" and Palin accuses Obama of "palling around with terrorists" who would attempt to "destroy America", they are playing the music and calling the steps to which these angry rally-goers are dancing.


The sad truth is, the GOP sees their time in power coming to an end (during this political cycle anyway, these things go round and round), and while the presidential candidate and his running mate are growing increasingly desperate, the GOP base is coming completely unhinged.

[RichardMacHugely]

:roll: ..and if YouTube wasn't democrat then there would be equally embarrasing Obama supporters out there, trust me, I've met them and they are equally scary. So it's not the party, it's just Americans on the street.

This is the same tired old "Main Stream Media Liberal Bias" crap that conservatives always trot out to show how "oppressed: they are. While I have no doubt that there are crazy extremists out there supporting the Democratic candidate (Cindy Sheehan types come to mind), the truth is that the fires of insanity are being stoked by the Republican candidates themselves. The "Obama as terrorist" meme has been taken up as the McCain-Palin warcry. Their own campaign manager said the other day that their plan was to "turn the page" on discussing the real problems affecting the economy right now and focus instead upon attacking Sen. Obama's character. Well, now we see it, and the GOP base is lapping it up like rabid dogs.

[Ysobelle]

Last night, Stephen Colbert had David Gergen, Director of the Center for Public Leadership at the Harvard Kennedy School and CNN Political Analyst, on his show.

http://www.colbertnation.com/home

The interview, which is on the main screen at the moment, starts at about the 3.50 mark, and they discuss exactly this. The one thing that Gergen brings up that absolutely terrifies me is that McCain, who is usually an honourable man, hasn't done a thing to rein in Palin when she starts riot-inciting. People really are shouting "Terrorist!" and "Kill him!" when she starts in. And she just stands there and smiles.

I've known women like her all my life. I call them snakes. Amongst other names.

[Roger]

Notice the clip getting so much play where McCain is speaking at a rally and an attendee shouts out “terrorist”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVFWahLTdUo For a brief moment the “honorable” McCain of days long past looks like he wants to quell the hate-speech. There is a momentary pain seen on his face. Then he smiles and lets the comment go. Go…just like his honor and respect.

[Pathos]

Given that both McCain and Palin are making constant insinuations that Sen. Obama is involved with terrorists it is silly to now claim that the angry nutcases captured in those videos are somehow only representative of the "fringe". These aren't crazy statistical outliers, they are taking their cues directly from the top of the GOP ticket.

When McCain himself asks in sinister tones "Who is the REAL Obama?" and Palin accuses Obama of "palling around with terrorists" who would attempt to "destroy America", they are playing the music and calling the steps to which these angry rally-goers are dancing.


The sad truth is, the GOP sees their time in power coming to an end (during this political cycle anyway, these things go round and round), and while the presidential candidate and his running mate are growing increasingly desperate, the GOP base is coming completely unhinged.

I think I've made it clear over the years I'm no liberal. I've been quite critical of the left. In fact...as of this moment in time...I've never voted for a Democrat for President (doesn't mean I've always voted Republican, mind you, just never Democrat).

Unfortunately I'm afraid I see this current campaign exactly as Richard describes it. I backed Obama very strongly in the primaries since I'm anti-Hillary but I adopted a "wait and see" attitude about the general election.

That attitude came to a crashing halt with McCains choice of VP...a decision that will baffle me for years to come. It totally undermines almost every argument McCain had against Obama.

Now this shrew is out there saying ridiculous things like "We don't even know who Barack Obama is." Bitch...we didn't know who the fuck you were until a month ago!!!

"I think it's ok to talk about Rev. Wright. It reflects on Obamas character." But you can't ask her about any of the crazy pastors from her church. Obama...as far as we know...just sat in the pew and listened. She was up there getting laid hands on by one of these wackos!!!

William Ayers? Fair game according to Palin. Her husbands association with a radical anti-American sessessionist? Off limits.

So yeah...as far as this particular election cycle goes I've become increasingly offended by the hypocritical bullshit being spewed by the GOP. Sure...both sides do it but McCain has sold out everything he ever stood for in his last-ditch desperate bid to become President.

I could never vote for that.

[Ysobelle]

Wow. I owe you a drink.

[BronxGirl]

Wow. I owe you a drink.


Me, too - more than one.

[LdyJhawk]

:roll: ..and if YouTube wasn't democrat then there would be equally embarrasing Obama supporters out there, trust me, I've met them and they are equally scary. So it's not the party, it's just Americans on the street.

Youtube isn't democrat, darlin. Trust me. It's pretty neutral

[Ravin' Raven]

Here is something from the other side - I don't have a link but I'll summarize:

Last week Howard Stern (yes THAT Howard Stern) sent a reporter to Harlem to ask the following question:
For whom are you voting?
If the respondent answered Obama they were asked the following questions:
What is more important to you - that Obama is Pro-Life or that he feels it's necessary to stay in Iraq as long as it takes?
and
So if Obama wins, you would not mind having Sarah Palin as VP?

Every respondent said they sided with Obama's views on abortion and the war and that they thought Sarah Palin would make a good VP for Obama.

Yes they led the people but it is very easy to do just that and that's what ALL media do. I fully expect that Mother Earth News and Big Oil Daily are going to report the same issue in very different ways.

The point is....well....there are a large number of people in this country who vote without complete information: they vote for the "lesser of two perceived evils", they vote for a single stance or attribute (sex, race, religion, pro-life), or they vote based on misinformation because, face it, for the average information consumer there is just too much out there and it can be difficult to get through the bullshit and get to the real facts (if you even can...).

So because the way our system is set up we have uninformed people voting in the same election booths as informed voters. You don't have to pass an IQ test or a civics exam to be able to vote. But they all honestly believe they are well informed. Honestly, there are people on this very board who scare me - will I call them out in public on a personal basis? Nope. But I know they think they are "well informed" and "educated". I'm sure those same people can turn around the things I post and think the same thing.

It's been pointed out that there has been a lot of posting negative things on this board about McCain, Palin and/or the GOP. So this board must be liberally biased. I don't agree. The people who are posting may be the passionate liberals and what they post is questioned and attacked and snarked at in some cases and they continue to passionately defned, question, answer and look for more information. When the passionate conservatives post the same thing happens but there does not tend to be the same passionate backing of the information, defensiveness and passion are not one and the same. If you don't want your media (because face it this forum is a form of media but the great thing is it's a medium that is controlled by its users) to be "liberally biased" then post, expect reaction, provide answers when asked, and be as passionate when your stances are questioned as you were in the first place.

my three cents

[Selena]

I think I've made it clear over the years I'm no liberal. I've been quite critical of the left. In fact...as of this moment in time...I've never voted for a Democrat for President (doesn't mean I've always voted Republican, mind you, just never Democrat).

Unfortunately I'm afraid I see this current campaign exactly as Richard describes it. I backed Obama very strongly in the primaries since I'm anti-Hillary but I adopted a "wait and see" attitude about the general election.

That attitude came to a crashing halt with McCains choice of VP...a decision that will baffle me for years to come. It totally undermines almost every argument McCain had against Obama.

Now this shrew is out there saying ridiculous things like "We don't even know who Barack Obama is." Bitch...we didn't know who the fuck you were until a month ago!!!

"I think it's ok to talk about Rev. Wright. It reflects on Obamas character." But you can't ask her about any of the crazy pastors from her church. Obama...as far as we know...just sat in the pew and listened. She was up there getting laid hands on by one of these wackos!!!

William Ayers? Fair game according to Palin. Her husbands association with a radical anti-American sessessionist? Off limits.

So yeah...as far as this particular election cycle goes I've become increasingly offended by the hypocritical bullshit being spewed by the GOP. Sure...both sides do it but McCain has sold out everything he ever stood for in his last-ditch desperate bid to become President.

I could never vote for that.

:hearts::hearts:::hug::

[Isabelle Warwicke]

There was only one? ;-)

I couldn't get past the first 17 seconds of the video.

I just don't feed that tripe into my brain.

[Phoenix McHeit]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Pathos again.
Damn.... :wink:

That was beautifully phrased.

[Ravin' Raven]

Pathos....

::flowers:

(I think you and I were typing at the same time - unfortunately work interfered and it took me the better part of 45 minutes to finish my post so I had not seen yours....)

[Ysobelle]

I've heard enough of the complaints that there are people posting anti-Obama vids that they get them removed by YT and they claim it isn't inappropriate material; I'll try to find a legit reference for you. [EDIT] I googled: 'YT biased for Obama/democrats' and similar text and found alot of interesting material supporting the claim.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&pwst=1&q=YouTube+biased+for+Obama/democrats&start=10&sa=N


I see a lot of blog ranting, but nothing substantive.

And remember, YouTube is user-driven. What's up there is what people want to have up there. I'd like to think that if they were so censorious, perhaps I wouldn't still be finding videos that claim to know "The Truth About Jews!". Or so I'd devoutly hope.

I think it's just that the main user demographic is solidly in the Obama camp. Or maybe YouTube users don't give a damn about the Ayers bullshit.

[willow of the wooded fortress]

Will my head explode if I go look at this?

My fear as well! My head is already bursting! I can not believe how many women I know and call friends who are all smitten with Palin?!!!!! I don't fricken get it. I am physically ill.

[Ysobelle]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/10/labor_warns_mcc.html


Labor warns McCain about crowds

Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor October 10, 2008 04:43 PM

The head of the nation's biggest labor federation is joining the chorus of voices warning about the increasingly angry crowds coming to John McCain's campaign events.
At rallies this week, McCain's criticisms of Democrat Barack Obama have been met with shouts of "terrorist," "liar," and other harsh words.

"Sen. John McCain, Gov. Sarah Palin and the leadership of the Republican party have a fundamental moral responsibility to denounce the violent rhetoric that has pervaded recent McCain and Palin political rallies," said John Sweeney, president of the AFL-CIO, which has endorsed Obama. "When rally attendees shout out such attacks as 'terrorist' or 'kill him' about Sen. Barack Obama, when they are cheered on by crowds incited by McCain-Palin rhetoric -- it is chilling that McCain and Palin do nothing to object.

"In a world where unspeakable violence is too often promulgated by extremists, it is no small or trivial matter to call someone a terrorist -- or to incite potentially dangerous individuals toward violence," Sweeney said in a statement. "John McCain, Sarah Palin and Republican leaders are walking a very thin line in pretending not to hear the hateful invectives spewed at their rallies. McCain should end this line of attack in the strongest possible terms. Anything less puts McCain in the same camp as the racists and extremists who are bringing their angry rhetoric to his campaign events."

[LdyJhawk]

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/10/labor_warns_mcc.html


Labor warns McCain about crowds

Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor October 10, 2008 04:43 PM

The head of the nation's biggest labor federation is joining the chorus of voices warning about the increasingly angry crowds coming to John McCain's campaign events.
At rallies this week, McCain's criticisms of Democrat Barack Obama have been met with shouts of "terrorist," "liar," and other harsh words.

"Sen. John McCain, Gov. Sarah Palin and the leadership of the Republican party have a fundamental moral responsibility to denounce the violent rhetoric that has pervaded recent McCain and Palin political rallies," said John Sweeney, president of the AFL-CIO, which has endorsed Obama. "When rally attendees shout out such attacks as 'terrorist' or 'kill him' about Sen. Barack Obama, when they are cheered on by crowds incited by McCain-Palin rhetoric -- it is chilling that McCain and Palin do nothing to object.

"In a world where unspeakable violence is too often promulgated by extremists, it is no small or trivial matter to call someone a terrorist -- or to incite potentially dangerous individuals toward violence," Sweeney said in a statement. "John McCain, Sarah Palin and Republican leaders are walking a very thin line in pretending not to hear the hateful invectives spewed at their rallies. McCain should end this line of attack in the strongest possible terms. Anything less puts McCain in the same camp as the racists and extremists who are bringing their angry rhetoric to his campaign events."

You want to know what's mindblowing? on a KNITTING board. KNITTING! Someone was so violently opposed to Obama that she stated she would happily kill him rather than let him set foot in the oval office. When someone said, "uh..heh..he..funny? Wooo.." she came back to confirm that no she absolutely was NOT joking and she totally meant it!

..someone called and reported it. This whole situation is a mess. Is it after the election yet?

[Ysobelle]

http://www.nytimes.com/external/gigaom/2008/10/10/10gigaom-mccain-palin-supporters-gone-wild-9806.html

McCain-Palin Supporters Gone Wild


By LIZ GANNES, GigaOm
Published: October 10, 2008

Video interviews by confrontational Barack Obama supporters at John McCain rallies are shooting up the YouTube charts, revealing angry and nasty anti-Obama sentiment that is in turn motivational for the Democratic presidential contender’s supporters. You almost feel like Joe Francis is behind the camera asking girls to flash him. And watching brings the same voyeuristic and embarrassed emotional response.

A video titled The McCain-Palin Mob is the No. 3 most-discussed video on YouTube today, with more than 675,000 views since it was posted Wednesday. In the clip, Ohio rally-goers tell blogger Tim Russo (who’s behind the camera) they have reason to believe Obama is a terrorist. Russo’s questioning is clearly aimed at putting his subjects on the defensive, but they take it to another level, in particular one woman who keeps pushing her way back on camera. Viewership of the video is partisan as well, but on the other side of the spectrum, with more than 130,000 views coming from the Huffington Post and many more from other liberal blogs.

Another, separate video from a Pennsylvania rally has McCain supporters calling Obama a “commie faggot” among other epithets, and is the No. 25 most-discussed YouTube clip today.

In a campaign where off-hand remarks by candidates regularly become leading nightly news items, citizens with video cameras wield a lot of journalistic power. And so it’s a bit hard to take Russo’s point of view, in that his disdain for his subjects is so clear (see some unprintable, for us, comments he makes about them on his blog). But at the same time, the mocking response he evokes from the woman at the McCain rally, which would have never aired at length (or at all) on TV, made its way out into the world. We live in interesting times!

[Ysobelle]

You want to know what's mindblowing? on a KNITTING board. KNITTING! Someone was so violently opposed to Obama that she stated she would happily kill him rather than let him set foot in the oval office. When someone said, "uh..heh..he..funny? Wooo.." she came back to confirm that no she absolutely was NOT joking and she totally meant it!

..someone called and reported it. This whole situation is a mess. Is it after the election yet?



Are you KIDDING me? Please tell me she got arrested-- making a death threat is grounds for the FBI to come and kick your ass. That's just totally out of hand. I mean, I despise Bush with the fires of a thousand burning suns, but I'd never say something THAT vicious and stupid.

[LdyJhawk]

Are you KIDDING me? Please tell me she got arrested-- making a death threat is grounds for the FBI to come and kick your ass. That's just totally out of hand. I mean, I despise Bush with the fires of a thousand burning suns, but I'd never say something THAT vicious and stupid.


For all I know Casey, the main guy for Ravelry, indicated nice men from the secret service showed up at his home to discuss the situation about one of his users. He could be totally blowing smoke and sunshine but I DO know the threat was made. I saw the post >.<

[Ysobelle]

For all I know Casey, the main guy for Ravelry, indicated nice men from the secret service showed up at his home to discuss the situation about one of his users. He could be totally blowing smoke and sunshine but I DO know the threat was made. I saw the post >.<

I know that site. Someone from there linked to my website-- I just thought it was creepy-stalkerish to go look.

Anyway, last for today:


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2008253075_opin12pitts.html

Sarah Palin and the mean wink
Sarah Palin's recent campaign attacks have grown increasingly strident and divorced from reality as John McCain's poll numbers have gone south.

By Leonard Pitts Jr
Syndicated columnist


Maybe you remember "Dave."

It was a 1993 movie starring Kevin Kline as Dave Kovic, an everyday guy who happens to be a dead ringer for the president. When the chief executive is stricken, his aides secretly recruit Dave to fill in for him. Problem is, Dave quickly begins to lose himself in the role. There's a wonderful scene where, trying to find money in the federal budget to fund a homeless shelter, Dave turns to his friend Murray, an accountant, for help.

"Who does these books?" asks Murray after taking an adding machine to the budget. "If I ran my business this way, I'd be out of business."

Like "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" in 1939, the central conceit of "Dave" is that what Washington needs is a jolt of reality from everyday people. As a movie, that's a charming idea. As real life, it has proved frightening and bizarre.

But we will talk more about Sarah Palin in a moment.

First, let's concede the obvious: Every politician wants to be seen as Everyman or woman. That's why every primary season brings the curious sight of millionaires in plaid shirts wandering through county fairs eating fried things on sticks. It's why Hillary Clinton hit that bar and Barack Obama went bowling, badly.

In that sense, Sarah Six Pack is nothing new. The "g" droppin', moose shootin', eye-winkin' hockey mom has plenty of antecedents. But there's a difference. Those antecedents were smart, wonkish people pretending to be one of us. Sarah Palin "is" one of us.

And by "us," I don't mean you, necessarily, or me. I mean the lowest common denominator us, the us of myth and narrative, the us of simple mind, the reactionary, ill-informed, impatient with complexity, utterly shallow us.

You think that's mean? Go back and look at the Katie Couric interviews again. Or the Charlie Gibson interview. I don't know about you, but I want a vice president who can identify Supreme Court rulings she disagrees with. Or define the Bush Doctrine. Or name a newspaper. Or — heck, I'm not picky — construct an intelligible English-language sentence.

Even many of her most ardent admirers no longer dispute that Sarah Six Pack is, shall we say, incurious. What's striking is how little that seems to matter. A McCain spokeswoman suggested before the vice presidential debate that it would be unfair to question Palin, "a woman who could be president," too closely on foreign policy. And when thinking conservatives (remember when the adjective was not necessary?) like Kathleen Parker and David Brooks declared Palin unfit for office, they were shouted down by their ideological brethren. Parker got e-mail she called "vicious and threatening." Brooks was dismissed by another pundit as a "conservative intellectual."

You're left to wonder when intellectuals — thinking people, for goodness sake! — became the enemy. Are we to regard unthinking conservatives (will that adjective soon be superfluous?) as the only true conservatives? Indeed, the only true Americans?

One gets that sense from Palin's recent campaign appearances. Her attacks have grown increasingly strident and divorced from reality as John McCain's poll numbers have gone south. She blames Katie Couric, and not herself, for her inability to answer fair questions. She frames Obama as some exotic unknown with terrorist associations.

And the rabble duly rouses. They boo Couric, which is not unlike booing Mickey Mouse. They scream death threats. Someone addresses an African-American sound man for one of the networks with a racial epithet and screams, "Sit down, boy!"

There is an ugliness here. It is disguised as decency, disguised as politics, but it is only ugliness, mean and raw and given license by the desperation of a man who used to be honorable and a woman who said she was just like us. And for the record: It's not a movie.

I only wish it were.

Miami Herald columnist Leonard Pitts Jr.'s column appears Sunday on editorial pages of The Times. His e-mail address is: lpitts@miamiherald.com

2008, The Miami Herald

[Ysobelle]

Well, this might be encouraging. Except for one thing: it's not really McCain who's been inciting these things: it's Palin. It's even Cindy McCain.

I'm pleased that he's addressed it, but I'm reserving judgement for now.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122368132195924869.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

OCTOBER 10, 2008, 7:43 P.M. ET
McCain Asks Supporters to Show Obama Respect
By LAURA MECKLER

LAKEVILLE, Minn. -- Sen. John McCain spoke out against the growing nastiness his Republican crowds have been demonstrating toward Sen. Barack Obama, demanding that his presidential rival be treated with respect.

At a town hall meeting Friday afternoon, he took four different opportunities to promise that he will treat the Democratic nominee with respect and to ask the same of his supporters.

Still, his campaign is hardly backing down. On Friday, it released a TV ad linking Sen. Obama to a 1960s radical.

At the town hall meeting, one audience member said that he and his wife are expecting a child next year. "Frankly, we're scared. We're scared of an Obama presidency," the questioner said.

Sen. McCain replied that of course he hopes that Sen. Obama is not elected but added: "I have to tell you he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared (of) as president of the United States." The crowd replied with a chorus of boo's.

And when another questioner said he could not trust him because "he's an Arab," Sen. McCain replied, "No, ma'am: no ma'am. He's a decent family man, citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that's what this campaign's all about. He's not."

There are persistent, false rumors that Sen. Obama is Muslim.

Sen. McCain said that "99 and 44/100ths" of people at his events have been respectful. He did not need to explain that others have not.

At a rally on Wednesday with Sen. McCain and his running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, someone yelled "off with his head." Later that day, a man at a rally held a sign that read "Obama, Osama." Speakers at events have increasingly been using Sen. Obama's middle name, Hussein. At a Monday event, someone shouted "terrorist!" when Sen. McCain asked rhetorically, "Who is Barack Obama?"

Sen. McCain said he would continue to press the differences between the two of them. And his comments came on the same day that his campaign released a new TV ad linking him William Ayers, a former member of the 1960s era radical group, the Weather Underground. Sen. Obama has acknowledged that he knows Mr. Ayers but has denounced his past activities. McCain surrogates have also begun talking about Sen. Obama's acknowledged drug use in his youth.

Also Friday, Gov. Palin said in Cleveland that more than one person has told her that Sen. McCain needs "to take the gloves off."

At the town hall meeting, Sen. McCain repeatedly tried to tamp down those in the crowd who urged him to do just that.

"We want to fight and I will fight," McCain told one of several questioners who demanded that he go after Sen. Obama harder. "But we will be respectful. I admire Sen. Obama and his accomplishments. I will respect him."

Write to Laura Meckler at laura.meckler@wsj.com

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

Here is something from the other side - I don't have a link but I'll summarize:

Last week Howard Stern (yes THAT Howard Stern) sent a reporter to Harlem to ask the following question:
For whom are you voting?
If the respondent answered Obama they were asked the following questions:
What is more important to you - that Obama is Pro-Life or that he feels it's necessary to stay in Iraq as long as it takes?
and
So if Obama wins, you would not mind having Sarah Palin as VP?

Every respondent said they sided with Obama's views on abortion and the war and that they thought Sarah Palin would make a good VP for Obama.

Yes they led the people but it is very easy to do just that and that's what ALL media do. I fully expect that Mother Earth News and Big Oil Daily are going to report the same issue in very different ways.

The point is....well....there are a large number of people in this country who vote without complete information: <snip>

I think that there's a difference between being stupid and uninformed, and being angry and violent and thinking that a presidential candidate is a sleeper terrorist agent because, well, "look at his bloodlines".

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

And when Obama has the audacity to mention that maybe the McCain campaign should tone down the rhetoric a bit so as to not encourage the lunatic fringe, what do you suppose the McCain campaign's response is?A) Acknowledge that the tone of the campaign has degraded, or

2) Deny responsibility for the actions of a select group of unhinged people, or

iii) Attack Obama for something that had nothing to do with his statement?
If you chose "Attack Obama for something that had nothing to do with his statement", you are a horribly jaded and cynical person.

Sadly however, you would also be correct.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/10/10/1529529.aspx

Earlier today, Obama remarked on recent outbursts of "Traitor!" "Terrorist!" and "Kill him!" at McCain campaign events. "It's easy to rile up a crowd," Obama said. "Nothing's easier than riling up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States."

In response, McCain senior adviser Nicolle Wallace released this statement, NBC's Kelly O'Donnell reports. "Barack Obama's assault on our supporters is insulting and unsurprising. These are the same people obama called 'bitter' and attacked for 'clinging to guns' and faith. He fails to understand that people are angry at corrupt practices in Washington and Wall Street and he fails to understand that America's working families are not 'clinging' to anything other than the sincere hope that Washington will be reformed from top to bottom."

"Attacking our supporters is a new low for the campaign that's run more millions of dollars of negative ads than any other in history."

** UPDATE *** McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers adds in another statement: “Barack Obama’s attacks on Americans who support John McCain reveal far more about him than they do about John McCain. It is clear that Barack Obama just doesn’t understand regular people and the issues they care about. He dismisses hardworking middle class Americans as clinging to guns and religion, while at the same time attacking average Americans at McCain rallies who are angry at Washington, Wall Street and the status quo."Admit nothing. Never defend. Always attack.

These are tactics that are straight out of the Church of $cientology playbook, being used by an allegedly legitimate candidate for the President of the United States of America.

Shame on John McCain. Shame on those who would defend him.

[Ocasio]

...Shame on those who would defend him.

Am I paranoid or is that making it personal? I don't like McCain and I don't like the way they're running their campaigning (too much compromise and shifting), but I will not vote for a liberal democrat because I never liked the socialism parallels (my opinion).

I'll be back after the election since I just realized the old addage of discussing religion and politics and appreciate and value these boards for being about fun, wenching, rogueing, and renning.

See you guys at faire and best of luck to you and yours.

Cheers til then,

O

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

Am I paranoid or is that making it personal? I don't like McCain and I don't like the way they're running their campaigning (too much compromise and shifting), but I will not vote for a liberal democrat because I never liked the socialism parallels (my opinion).

Vote for whomever you want for whatever reason you want. That's not what I'm criticizing. I didn't say "shame on those who would vote for him."

I've seen people (not necessarily here) defend McCain's behavior in this campaign; those are the people I am saying "shame on you" to.

[Pathos]

I'll be back after the election
Uh...

...bye?

I dunno'...

8-)

[RichardMacHugely]

Am I paranoid or is that making it personal? I don't like McCain and I don't like the way they're running their campaigning (too much compromise and shifting), but I will not vote for a liberal democrat because I never liked the socialism parallels (my opinion).

I'll be back after the election since I just realized the old addage of discussing religion and politics and appreciate and value these boards for being about fun, wenching, rogueing, and renning.

See you guys at faire and best of luck to you and yours.

Cheers til then,

O

Dude, we haven't had a "Liberal" Democrat run since Carter, or maybe even McGovern. Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obama are all Centrists, not hardcore Liberals. And having been to East Germany back in the days before the Wall came down, I can tell you that people in this country have no fucking idea what "Socialism" is if they think Democrats are Socialists.

Okay, maybe Kucinich.

[Sorcha Griannon]

For all I know Casey, the main guy for Ravelry, indicated nice men from the secret service showed up at his home to discuss the situation about one of his users. He could be totally blowing smoke and sunshine but I DO know the threat was made. I saw the post >.<
Casey might be, but he's not going to put up with that crap over there. I'm sure she's banned, but still.
Let me guess, Big Issue Debate forum?

Sorcha

[Ysobelle]

These boards are about us-- and if this is what's important to us, this is what we discuss. You don't have to join in, but neither do you have to leave for a month.

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

Dude, we haven't had a "Liberal" Democrat run since Carter, or maybe even McGovern. Clinton, Gore, Kerry, and Obama are all Centrists, not hardcore Liberals.
For some people here (well, okay... just one), anything to the left of Atilla the Hun is a liberal commie pinko. ;-)

[LdyJhawk]

For some people here (well, okay... just one), anything to the left of Atilla the Hun is a liberal commie pinko. ;-)

Better Red than....

[Ysobelle]

Better Red than....



Orange. I look terrible in orange.

[LdyJhawk]

Orange. I look terrible in orange.

There are very few who are blessed with the ability to wear orange. I am not one of them. People try to draw faces on my ass if I wear it this time of year

[Ysobelle]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/10/AR2008101002456.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

McCain and Palin Are Playing With Fire


By Khaled Hosseini
Sunday, October 12, 2008; Page B05

I prefer to discuss politics through my novels, but I am truly dismayed these days. Twice last week alone, speakers at McCain-Palin rallies have referred to Sen. Barack Obama, with unveiled scorn, as Barack Hussein Obama.

Never mind that this evokes -- and brazenly tries to resurrect -- the unsavory, cruel days of our past that we thought we had left behind. Never mind that such jeers are deeply offensive to millions of peaceful, law-abiding Muslim Americans who must bear the unveiled charge, made by some supporters of Sen. John McCain and Gov. Sarah Palin, that Obama's middle name makes him someone to distrust -- and, judging by some of the crowd reactions at these rallies, someone to persecute or even kill. As a secular Muslim, I too was offended. Obama's middle name differs from my last name by only two vowels. Does the McCain-Palin campaign view me as a pariah too? Do McCain and Palin think there's something wrong with my name?



But never mind any of that.

The real affront is the lack of firm response from either McCain or Palin. Neither has had the moral courage, when taking the stage, to grasp the microphone, turn to the presenter and, right then and there, denounce the use of Obama's middle name as an insult. Instead, they have simply delivered their stump speeches, lacing into Obama as if nothing out-of-bounds had just happened. The McCain-Palin ticket has given toxic speeches accusing Obama of being a friend of terrorists, then released short, meek repudiations of some of the rough stuff, including McCain's call Friday to "be respectful." Back in February, the Arizona senator apologized for the "disparaging remarks" from a talk-radio host who sneered repeatedly about "Barack Hussein Obama" before a McCain rally. "We will have a respectful debate," McCain insisted afterward. But pretending to douse flames that you are busy fanning does not qualify as straight talk.

What I find most unconscionable is the refusal of the McCain-Palin tandem to publicly condemn the cries of "traitor," "liar," "terrorist" and (worst of all) "kill him!" that could be heard at recent rallies. McCain is perfectly capable of telling hecklers off. But not once did he or his running mate bother to admonish the people yelling these obscene -- and potentially dangerous -- words. They may not have been able to hear the slurs at the rallies, but surely they have had ample time since to get on camera and warn that this sort of ugliness has no place in an election season. But they have not. Simply calling Obama "a decent person" is not enough.

Is inaction tantamount to consent? The McCain campaign certainly thinks so when it comes to Obama and incendiary remarks from the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. By their own inaction, then, are McCain and Palin condoning these slurs? Or worse, are they willfully inciting the angry and venomous response that we have been witnessing at their rallies? If not, then what reaction are they hoping to evoke by their relentless public suggestions that Obama is basically an anti-American liar who won't put "country first" and has an affection for terrorists? Do they not understand the kind of fire they are playing with?

I -- and, I suspect, millions of Americans like me, Republicans and Democrats alike -- couldn't care less about Obama's middle name or the ridiculous six-degrees-of-separation game that is the William Ayers non-issue. The Taliban are clawing their way back in Afghanistan, the country that I hope many of my fellow Americans have come to understand better through my novels. People are losing their homes and their jobs and are watching the future slip away from them. But instead of addressing these problems, the McCain-Palin ticket is doing its best to distract Americans by provoking fear, anxiety and hatred. Country first? Hardly.

Khaled Hosseini is the author of "The Kite Runner" and "A Thousand Splendid Suns."

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

To his credit, McCain appears to be trying (now) to get his supporters to 'simmer down now!'. :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE

And I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but I was a little LOL at "He's an Arab" "No, Ma'am; he's a decent family man and citizen", as if those are two mutually exclusive things. ;-)

We're starting to see shades of the "good", circa 2000 John McCain emerge again. Maybe his heart grew back two sizes that day or something, I don't know. But if that John McCain had run for president in 2008, he would have had a great chance at winning.




I think though that McCain is maybe trying to have it both ways. He's saying things like what's in the video clip there, but as far as I know, he hasn't yanked on Palin's leash yet. I think she and his other surrogates are still out there throwing firebombs, so maybe my respect is premature.