cloaks

[CelticBombshell]

About how many yards of material do you need for a circle cloak does anyone know

I was thinking about making a circle cloak. Is broad cloth a good fabric for cloaks

also does anyone know how well flannel dyes?

Mel

[emalia]

What do you want your cloak for? Warmth, Dryness, Dryaness and warmth, because it looks cool? It depends on what you want it to do..

[Magpie]

depends on how you make it... generally, if you are going to make a true "circle cloak" (meaning you put the fabric down on the ground and draw a circle out on it) you need twice the width of the fabric.

so for 60" wide fabric, you would need 120" that way you can cut 1/2 circle out of each of 2 pieces of fabric and just have one seam.


100% cotton flannel dyes well if it is washed first. other than that, I don't know.

[emalia]

I can usually get a full circle cloak out of 8ish yards of fabric that is 60". I also sew two half circles together to do this.

If you are going for warmth, flannel is nice, but I would NOT use broadcloath as if it gets wet, it is just going to be like wearing a bed sheet. I am a HUGE fan of wool and its blended friends, with LOTS of Camp Dry!!!!

[CelticBombshell]

Well I am allergic to wool, do you know of a substitute for wool.

Want it for warmth found some 108" Fabric for about $6 a yd

Mel

[emalia]

I would use a heavy twill, even trigger and line that with the flannel.

Is it all wook you are allergic to or just sheep's wool?

[CelticBombshell]

all wool

mel

[emalia]

So looks like no critter hair for you at all.. =(

[Mairi the Herbwench]

I've found polar fleece that's pretty water proof, looks like wool, (I'm allergic too) and is wery easy to sew. However - it's NOT windproof, so if you're looking for warmth in windy areas, you want to either buy the windproof polar fleece or line it with a wind proof material. Also - if you wash wool in hot water and dry it in a hot dryer, it becomes more wind-and-water proof and reduces some of the allergens. But it does shrink, so buy more!

[Bonnie]

My cloak isn't a circle, but it is a very heavy cotton twill, lined in flannel, loaded with Camp Dri.

The coldest I've used it in so far has been the low sixties, or high fifties....seeing as how I had no temp gauge, I'm estimating, but it was nice and snug. And waterproof, which is absolutely necessary.

['Nise]

I made mine (from a butternick pattered, it a tailored one) from a wolstern, it was wool and poly and wonderfully wind nd water resinstent. I lined it with a heavy brushed cotton twill that I got at Handcok fabrics for 2 bucks a yard!. Someone had miss marked the bolt and no one knew exactly what it was but it works wonderfully.
I think I used about 6 yards in my cloak.
love ya
'Nise

[CelticBombshell]

I found a really good quality duck canvas on sale do you think that would work?

Mel

['Nise]

Ooh that would be a great outer layer!

[Bronya]

I am form So Cal so it doesnt get freezing cold here usually but my cloaks do keep the chill off.I have made several for others and have used corduroy turned inside out and made it reversible. The pattern is a McCalls 8936 #B and uses 5.5 yds (doubled to make reversible. I have enlarged it for men and made smaller for the littler wenches.....I love it!!! It wont pass costume inspection becasue of the fabric but that is fine with me...as Billy Crystal would say in his best Ferando Lamas voice"I look MAHHH-VO-LUS!!!! Good luck

[AnnaFaerie]

But...but....corduroy is from the right time period. :shock: Henry VIII wore it. It was called corduroy because it means 'cloth of kings'. Maybe I didn't understand what you meant....this would not be too surprising....please help!

[AnnaFaerie]

But...but....corduroy is from the right time period. :shock: Henry VIII wore it. It was called corduroy because it means 'cloth of kings'. Maybe I didn't understand what you meant....this would not be too surprising....please help!

[Mairi the Herbwench]

Oui. The "correct" original spelling is "Cord Du Roi" - King's cloth. It's quite period, as long as it's not printed.

One thing I didn't mention before - if you're going to be around an open flame (campfire, etc,) while wearing your cloak - make it wool only. Wool is naturally fire repellent - anything else isn't. You can line wool so it never touches your skin - I"ve done it (with an old fur coat). It's my "I'll never be cold at Big Island again" cloak!

Big Island is the first week in October - it invariably rains steadily or snows the enitre 4 days, and the temperature hovers around 33 degrees. (Why do I live here? Why do I do this?)

[Magpie]

Oui. The "correct" original spelling is "Cord Du Roi" - King's cloth. It's quite period, as long as it's not printed.


hmmm... not to be obnoxious, but do you have anything to support this?

I'm pretty sure that it is a later fabric, named after the town Corduroy and that it's an 18th century fabric.
"corduroy - 1780, Amer.Eng., probably from cord + obs. 17c. duroy, a coarse fabric made in England. Folk etymology is from *corde du roi "the king's cord," but this is not attested in Fr., where the term for the cloth was velours à côtes. Applied in U.S. to a road of logs across swampy ground (1822). "
From http://www.etymonline.com/c9etym.htm

also:
http://www.wordreference.com/English/definition.asp?en=corduroy

Now, I'm not saying *don't* use corduroy, its a great fabric... But, I'd try to use a *very* narrow wale, though, since from a few feet away it will look either like twill or possibly velveteen.

I *like* corduroy, but misconceptions can be a bad thing. :(

*shrug* YMMV

[emalia]

FRom what I have read, Corduroy refers to a very very very small waled fabric that is slightly rough. It would be comperable to our Velveteen, as mentioned above, or to Baby Corduroy that is used for infants clothing, that is extrodinarily small. The Corduroy that we have now adays, is a more mordern fabric, ie: circa late 1800's to early 1900's.

[AnnaFaerie]

This is from a newsletter by mlh costuming.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, fustian is a fabric made by weaving two sets of cotton wefts on a linen warp creating a pile. The resulting fabric was popular during the European Middle Ages and includes among others moleskin, velveteen, and corduroy. It is believed that fustian originated in Al-fustat, now part of Cairo around AD 200.

There is more to the newsletter. So you can read all of it.

I am a costumer and I have an extensive reference library that I use for accuracy. The Herbert Norris books said that corduroy was used during the Renaissance.

An article titled '12th and 13th Century Velvet' by Lydie LaBarthe, "Corduroy, (Fr: Corde du Roi) was woven for minor nobility and the servants of kings in the Middle Ages. It has extra wefts that form lengthwise rows of floats that are cut (it used to be hand cut...way back when...that is why it was so expensive) to form a pile, resembling the corrugated effect of the corduroy we know today".

I agree that the 'no wale' or baby corduroy would look more like the "cord" from back then.

I must say that I am still surprised that people think corduroy didn't exist during the Renaissance. It has been around for hundreds of years.

[Bronya]

...I was told that our faire didnt approve it, so that is why I turned both so the wale was inside... I had thought I read somewhere that is was period...thanks for the info...............it still makes a great cloak....nice and warm,one side rust the other black

[Jeannie Fitzgerald]

Cordouroy is period, but is banned by Southern as are many other things that are period. One reason of many I'm working Corona instead.

Lady Fitzgerald
#758
The Wicked Wench of the West

[AnnaFaerie]

Ok, I just don't understand why things that ARE period are banned. Can you explain that to me? In my mind if the faires are banning period things they are helping with the spread of misinformation. Maybe I don't understand the inside workings of the faire....well...for sure I don't! Is there one person in charge of saying what is allowed and what isn't? Also does anyone know how that person gets the job? My home faire is in Texas and one of the things that bothers me is they don't allow the court to wear fabric that isn't HEAVY....you know lots of velvets, brocades (heavy, hot, etc.) when the English in 1534 wore some lightweight fabrics in the heat. It really does boggle my mind. I would love to hear from all of you that understand the whys and wherefores of the costuming at fair. It would make my life a little easier.
A little story to help you understand my confusion. A customer of mine ordered an Irish overgown with a medallion on the back of the bodice that was a Celtic fish pattern. The medallion was pieced with hand dyed/painted fish and embroidered areas on it. Not period at all. She told me afterwards that she worked at faire and it had been approved. Scared me to death to think of spending that kind of money...then having the gown approved.

[emalia]

From a Festival Costumer's point of view:

1. Somethings are the owner, some things are scenario based. Somethings are paytron expectations. The Costumer is given the scenarios for the festival, and told to run from there for the most part. They are also given an idea as to what is expected of key characters, such as tights or no tights.. or I want the Queen in Velvet, or so and so must wear..... make it work. The motto for most festivals, is I don't care how you got there as long as it looks period in the end. I have one cast member that just can't sew.. Just can't do it.. She fabric glued her entire costume then hand sewed the seams with a thiker thread, and I'll be damned if it didn't look great! Obviously the construction may not be period (If it is, they have WAY too much time), but the line, the materials, and the look appear period...

As for how the person gets the job.. I started out as an apprentice to the costumer when I moved to BARF (Basically, I have an idea, now mold me). From there I was assistant Costumer, then from there I am Costumer. Many places you are required to place a bid for the position with references, ideas, and a costuming resume some months before the festival even announces auditions.

2. I live in FLorida and have been a Costumer for many years now. My Court dress is WOOL! that's right 100% pure Wool. However it is wool Crepe. Our Queen wears Velvet, the majority of our ladies wear washable uphostry jacquards. I used to wear velvet... our Lady Mayor wears Linen...

It is all in what is expected of the cast by the paytrons. The cast is there to provide atmosphere and entertainment. They are there to LOOK, feel and sound the part regardless of comfort. Not all paytrons are educated as to what would actually have been worn in the summertime durning the festival period. But they do know that nobles wear velvet, middle class people are jsut trying to be upper class and peasants wear dirty stuff. This came from the mouth of a paytron. So we dress to what they expect, then above that.

It isn't that they "don't allow" allow people to wear lighter fabrics, but the fact is that it is much easier to make Velvet look noble, than it is to make fine Lawn look noble, or lightweight demask look noble. I know this from experience. It was far more difificule to make my Wool look noble, than it was my Velvet.

As for Corduroy, we don't allow it becuse people end up with nasty looking stuff, and for the most part, it doesn't look period, people look at it and think Osh Kosh Overalls. Good stuff is also VERY difficult to find down here.

3. As for your friends dress, it really all in how it looks, and the character the "outfit" is for.. Perhaps it was something that was just too good to turn down and created many great bits to use with the paytrons, somethings are just like that... You have to sorta turn your nose the other way, as it is a HUGE interaction bit... Actually, some fabric painting is period, and appliqueing is most defiantely period. I would have to see it to find out for sure, but the techniques, are not totally out of the question. As I am at work, I don't have the references in front of me, but I can defiantely thinking, wow that would be fun do to when reading it...

Tia


Ok, I just don't understand why things that ARE period are banned. Can you explain that to me? In my mind if the faires are banning period things they are helping with the spread of misinformation. Maybe I don't understand the inside workings of the faire....well...for sure I don't! Is there one person in charge of saying what is allowed and what isn't? Also does anyone know how that person gets the job? My home faire is in Texas and one of the things that bothers me is they don't allow the court to wear fabric that isn't HEAVY....you know lots of velvets, brocades (heavy, hot, etc.) when the English in 1534 wore some lightweight fabrics in the heat. It really does boggle my mind. I would love to hear from all of you that understand the whys and wherefores of the costuming at fair. It would make my life a little easier.
A little story to help you understand my confusion. A customer of mine ordered an Irish overgown with a medallion on the back of the bodice that was a Celtic fish pattern. The medallion was pieced with hand dyed/painted fish and embroidered areas on it. Not period at all. She told me afterwards that she worked at faire and it had been approved. Scared me to death to think of spending that kind of money...then having the gown approved.

[AnnaFaerie]

Thanks for the info.
I still find it hard to take in that the faires don't allow all fabrics of the time period (well, you know what I mean). I understand that patrons expect velvets, etc., but wouldn't it be nice to enlighten them AND let the actors wear comfortable weight clothing?
Some of my customers have had the King and Queen tell them how great their (the customers) gowns are and they (the King and Queen) wished they could wear some of the lightweight clothes. I don't blame them...when the weather is 115 and you are in velvets....lord I'm surprised more of them don't keel over from the heat!
Again, thanks!

[cyd]

Thanks for the info.
I still find it hard to take in that the faires don't allow all fabrics of the time period (well, you know what I mean). I understand that patrons expect velvets, etc., but wouldn't it be nice to enlighten them AND let the actors wear comfortable weight clothing?
Some of my customers have had the King and Queen tell them how great their (the customers) gowns are and they (the King and Queen) wished they could wear some of the lightweight clothes. I don't blame them...when the weather is 115 and you are in velvets....lord I'm surprised more of them don't keel over from the heat!
Again, thanks!

Well, also, back "in the day", things were a lot cooler, and they were in the UK, for gossake... While the Gulf Stream warms things up a bit, it's still pretty damned chilly up there (when I was in Scotland a few years ago, in mid july, I was wearing a wool sweater, wool scarf, wool mittens, and a wool hat, and was STILL freezing. 40 degrees in July!).

Not to mention that we were going through a "mini ice age". So a lot of the heavier stuff WOULD have been worn in the summer.

But many faires want to go with "what the public wants". It's not always the costume director who gets to pick. Not to mention, the costume director has to think of what the budget calls for. While linen would be cheaper than velvet, in order to "dress it up" to look like nice nobles, you might have to spend ten times as much in trim and jewels than you would for the equivalent amount of velvet, and it takes up a lot less time to just do a rich heavy fabric than it does to bejewel a lighter, less gorgeous fabric. I remember our costume director telling me how her first year as costume director, she only had a $500 budget to work with! Jewels, trim, and the like are almost IMPOSSIBLE to work with on that kind of a budget. Better a velveteen that doesn't require much decoration, than a lightweight linen that requires a ton of jeweling and trim.

Some faires are VERY much also of the opinion that only certain people can wear certain colors namely because they want things to be "distinctive". For example, RPFS and "only the queen wears purple". They want the queen to stand out, therefore only she is permitted to wear purple. Unfortunately, because of costume regs like that, many people get what "is" period confused with what "faire wants to be" period.

Personally, half my bodices are lined in fine-wale corduroy. I adore it.

At my faire, the costume director asks that all performers come before her to be "approved" before faire starts, if you're not directly cast (if you are cast, she makes it for you). Me, she's told me she trusts me not to do something stupid. *smirk* If I ever do anything truly "stupid", she'll yank that privledge. *chuckle* I do my best not to screw things up, and she knows I'm enough of a "periodicity freak" to NOT do something truly stupid (like wear neon green polyprene or something). Even she will use print fabrics now and again, but they're generally prints that could feasibly be hand-painted. :)

And I'm of the opinion that a costume director for a particular faire that I do NOT work for (and likely never will) is a wee tad bit over the top. But I won't go there. Really. Other people have done that for me. ;)

Cyd (and yes, I've been allowed to wear corduroy...)

[emalia]

Thanks for the info.
I still find it hard to take in that the faires don't allow all fabrics of the time period (well, you know what I mean). I understand that patrons expect velvets, etc., but wouldn't it be nice to enlighten them AND let the actors wear comfortable weight clothing?
Some of my customers have had the King and Queen tell them how great their (the customers) gowns are and they (the King and Queen) wished they could wear some of the lightweight clothes. I don't blame them...when the weather is 115 and you are in velvets....lord I'm surprised more of them don't keel over from the heat!
Again, thanks!

As Cyd pointed out, in the UK it is MUCH cooler. However, there are ways to keep cool in Nobles.....

1. Make your Underthngs COTTON or Linen! Corset an alll!
2. Drink LOTS of water (we always have full mugs on court, to be taken both ways as we do have a busty court)
3. BODICE CHILLER!
4. If it is too hot, we will take hats off.. Period or not...

Also, for what it is worth, I have never had a costuming budget... The only person whose clothing is supplied is the Queen, and that is brought in from another festival. We also have the only the Queen wears purple or anything like it. However, this year there was one exception that we all just couldn't pass up.. One of our FOPs had a muted mulberry/purpleish cloak. I really can't accurately describe the color, with a pink lining.. It was just over the top for his character, and perfect.... However, in period, upper nobility was allowed to wear all shades of purple. At least I would have been able to wear my fav color..

The downfalls of having court wear lighter colors and fabrics are the following:
1. Color Fadage
2. It would take a WHOLE lot more material to get some of the draping right, if not a lining. Which kinda defeats the whole purpose.
3. We would spend more time educating than entertaining. The festival should be a combination of both.
4. As Cyd pointed out, the Costs would be astronomical..

As far as your King and Queen's comments, I have to say this.. We all dream of lighter cooler fabrics when on court on a hot day... There isn't one that doesn't. However, when they accepted the role, they knew what they were getting into... Being hot is just one of the risks/downfalls everyone accepts when they accept a role on court or as a noble.

But enough of this.. I just wanna dress in a bodice, and skirts for awhile... I have been on court for years now, and the dresses just keep getting better and better. I am a fashion snob.. :D