Indonesia shows its gratitude towards the US Military

[Lug Ironjaw]

I say we pull all of our troops out now and leave the aid on the beaches.

No matter what this country does, we're still gonna get crapped on. This is proof that they only wanted our food and money.



9.0 on ungrateful scale

Thanks for the help, but now get out,
Indonesian veep tells U.S. soldiers

BY CORKY SIEMASZKO
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Ingrates!
The Indonesian government yesterday showed its appreciation to U.S. soldiers who have been risking their lives helping tsunami victims by ordering them to get out of the country by the end of March.

"Three months are enough," Vice President Jusuf Kalla told the official Antara news agency. "In fact, the sooner [they leave] the better."

Kalla's government also forced the Abraham Lincoln, from which Navy pilots have flown dozens of food supply missions to the hard-hit Aceh Province, to steam out of Indonesian waters because they refused to let U.S. pilots fly training missions in their air space.

The Indonesians also refused to let the Marines coming ashore rebuild roads, establish a base camp or carry arms.

Lynn Pascoe, the U.S. ambassador to Indonesia, reacted to Kalla's ingratitude by declaring that American troops will help as long as they were needed and "not a minute later."

But in Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan demanded "further clarification from Indonesia about what this means."

"We hope that the government of Indonesia and the military in Indonesia will continue the strong support they have provided to the international relief efforts so far," he said.

Although most Indonesians have expressed thanks for U.S. help, nationalist politicians in the world's most populous Muslim country have been grumbling about "American interlopers."

Indonesia's new president, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, is a former general in a country that has been under martial law for much of its recent history.

Always wary of America, Indonesia reluctantly allowed U.S. soldiers in when it became clear it could not deal with the aftermath of the Dec. 26 tsunami on its own.

Yudhoyono's government also moved to reassert control over wave-walloped Aceh by ordering aid workers and journalists to declare their travel plans - or face expulsion.

"It is important to note that the government would be placed in a very difficult position if any foreigner who came to Aceh to assist in the aid effort was harmed through the acts of irresponsible parties," the government said in a statement.

The Indonesian government was referring to the rebels who have largely stayed out of the way as the international rescue missions have been mounted.

[Jeannie Fitzgerald]

Considering how we have gone to other counties to help them in the past and often left a permanent presence or a change in their way of life (not always for good), I can't say I blame them. I would think it is more caution rather than ingratitude.

[Constance Innuendo]

Considering how we have gone to other counties to help them in the past and often left a permanent presence or a change in their way of life (not always for good), I can't say I blame them. I would think it is more caution rather than ingratitude.


I agree completely I think a certain amount of caution is prescribed when accepting aide from ANY world power, especially "us" (the United States' record in such situations being what it is. . .)

[Bonnie Strangeways]

I'm with you Lug...I say we review our plans for over 4 BILLION dollars worth of aid to the f^&(^ ing ingrates, and say "Piss Off" to the whiney-a$$ U.N. B^*^H who complained the US wasn't "doing enough".

Although, I really cannot say I'm suprised by this either. As with most of the Nations of the world....we're good enough to take money from, but they cannot be bothered with paying us back. They can whine and complain and plead for "aid" when their a$$es are getting kicked, their country's invaded, or their children kidnapped or killed, but as soon as our "use" is exhausted, it's "You're destroying our culture" or "You're usurping our authority".

"Wah" I say...let them suffer. Harsh....hell yeah. I for one am sick to death of having our good works thrown in our face.

Semper Fi, and my heart goes out to the poor troops over there having to deal with this attitude while trying to help them recover from this tragedy.

[daBaroness]

I certainly think this is yet again another example of how politicians are self-servants not public servants. This had to do entirely with Indonesia's internal political and societal strife - and lord forbid either the government or the rebels think of all the citizen victims of the tsunami. Both sides are simply scared to death that the United States might become partisan to one side over the other.

I can't blame them - I am feeling more and more as though Iraq is just this generation's Viet Nam. I saw a listing of all the deaths of U.S. soldiers since we invaded and was just sickened that the ages of most of the dead are 18 to 20-year olds. I HAVE a 20-year-old who will probably be going into the Army. Frankly, I'm proud that he wants to serve his country and protect our freedoms, but that's not at all what Iraq is about - just like Viet Nam wasn't. I didn't birth him, raise him, deal with all the pains and sorrows to have him die in the armpit of the Earth fighting for and against people who don't want us there.

I'd be all about the military serving not only this country, but helping victims of disasters, repression and poverty all over the world. I wish that in the 21st century our global mission as the most powerful nation on the planet would be to aleviate suffering wherever it exists without being a threat to the ruling government of countries where the suffering exists. And what about our own country? Wouldn't it be wonderful if our military went to work on our own infrastructure and provided human services to make this country a better place?

Ah, I dream ... My belief is the reality from our government's POV is making the world safe so we can exploit them for their resources - top on the list being petroleum. There are no new, undiscovered areas left to colonize so it seems we've become the hero on the block - coming to the rescue of the poor, nerdy kid who's always being bullied. Only thing is - I think somewhere along the line, we've become the bully. Afterall - we're just trying to bring civilization, Christianity and white bread to the heathen masses ...

It's just sad we can't somehow approach this terrible tragedy on a person-to-person basis rather than a government to government one. And the victims go on suffering ...

[Jeannie Fitzgerald]

Oddly enough, I agree with both prevalent views in this thread. We do have a reputation for sticking our beak where it doesn't belong and/or wearing our welcome out. But at the same time, we have helped out many countries and received only scorn from them (France is a good example; if it wasn't for us - twice - they would be speaking German). We have enough problems at home that need dealing with. Maybe we should start concentrating on them instead of the rest of the world.

[Lug Ironjaw]

Oddly enough, I agree with both prevalent views in this thread. We do have a reputation for sticking our beak where it doesn't belong and/or wearing our welcome out. But at the same time, we have helped out many countries and received only scorn from them (France is a good example; if it wasn't for us - twice - they would be speaking German). We have enough problems at home that need dealing with. Maybe we should start concentrating on them instead of the rest of the world.

AMEN TO THAT!!!

We can send billions in food and medicine to foreign nations yet our elderly need to look to Canada and Mexico for prescription drugs. We have no way to provide healthcare for our poor and unemployed. The school systems need an influx of cash and support to make sure our kids can read and write. Not to mention we need to fix out infrastructure.

Jeannie if ya ran for office you'd have my vote.

It's time ofr us to stop meddling in world affairs, and realize that our country needs to fix itself before we can tall others what they're doing wrong.

[Constance Innuendo]

Oddly enough, I agree with both prevalent views in this thread. We do have a reputation for sticking our beak where it doesn't belong and/or wearing our welcome out. But at the same time, we have helped out many countries and received only scorn from them (France is a good example; if it wasn't for us - twice - they would be speaking German). We have enough problems at home that need dealing with. Maybe we should start concentrating on them instead of the rest of the world.

AMEN TO THAT!!!

We can send billions in food and medicine to foreign nations yet our elderly need to look to Canada and Mexico for prescription drugs. We have no way to provide healthcare for our poor and unemployed. The school systems need an influx of cash and support to make sure our kids can read and write. Not to mention we need to fix out infrastructure.

Jeannie if ya ran for office you'd have my vote.

It's time ofr us to stop meddling in world affairs, and realize that our country needs to fix itself before we can tall others what they're doing wrong.

and AMEN AGAIN. . . .. only one problem though. . .where's the profit in that? Call me jaded (and a million other things) but if our government could better its political agenda and/or make a profit by concentrating on our own problems they would have done it long ago. . .

[Lug Ironjaw]

and AMEN AGAIN. . . .. only one problem though. . .where's the profit in that? Call me jaded (and a million other things) but if our government could better its political agenda and/or make a profit by concentrating on our own problems they would have done it long ago. . .

The problem stands not with the government per se, but with the corporate world. Lobbyists, under the table deals, and the greed of the corporate world fuel the government's policy. Think about this...when President Clinton sent troops into Yugoslavia to sttop the ethnic cleansing, corporate Americal followed. A Mc Donald's Burger King, etc was established 'to make the troops feel at home" though it was more for profit in a market that would sell their souls to have fast food.

The drug corporations can pump out tons of sexual enhancement drugs, but we have to outsource our flu vaccine production as well as no new antibiotics have been introduced to the market. Celebrex and Vioxx were pushed through because of their profit potential and they're killing their users. The government needs to stop policing the world, reign in our greedy corps who outsource labor to dirt cheap nations, and really just give our society an enema.

We became a world power because we used to be able to make almost everything we needed at home. Now when you call your cell phone co for help or Dell because your PC crashed you're directed to Mamaljamalputi India where they're pauing the avg worker 3 bucks an hour. Haliburton uses its gov't contacts to get in Iraq and then overcharged the gov't to make a profit. This never happened before 1950. Our industry helped us win WW2, but now most of our military equipment is made outside of the USA. Hell, even those yellow 'Support our Troops' magnets we put on cars are made in China.

Time for us to go back to moderate isolationism, boot the UN from our shores, and let's just worry about our citizens ( the poor and middle class) for once in a long time.

[Neadods]

We are giving them aid because IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

It frustrates me when people -or nations- expect to be "paid" back for their aid after disasters. Did we pay anyone back after 9/11? Did we even send a thank-you card for the public condolences from other countries?

More than that, it sickens me to think that the only reason why we would send money, food, water, and help was because we wanted brownie points. People who have nothing to do with this politician have died, lost their homes, their jobs, their families, everything. And we're to punish them more because this guy mouthed off? Heaven help us all if we're held individually liable for everything each of our politicians says!

Helping people in trouble is the only right thing to do. Not for the glory, not for the payback, not for the political points, but for the ability to look ourselves in the bathroom mirror every morning and know that we're not the sort of people who look at the hungry, the devastated, and the dying and think "What's in it for me?"

[Ysobelle]

Is there any paricular reason we can't teach our children to read [i]and[/] help Indonesia? I mean, I really don't think Washington's going to say, "Well, you know, Joe Citizen, we'd love to give little Joey a better education, but we had to help little Rama from dying from exposure and malaria. Sorry. Maybe next year."

Our education programs were underfunded long before December 26th, and anyone who tries to tell us otherwise is either a fool or a Republican. But I repeat myself. (With thanks to Mark Twain.)

[AllieSutherland]

The problem with all of this is apathy.

People in this county (by and large) don't give a shit about ANYTHING that can't be found at a Wal-Mart, in a McDonald's bag, or attached to a movie star/famous person so that they can get a "fame f*ck" (why do you think they're having the stars on the Tsumnami Aid?!? Come on. I think 99.9 percent of the country has heard about the Tsunami. Many people have given, but there are a great number who won't until Brad Pitt endorses it or Leo DeCaprio answers the phone).

If you've got a problem with the way America is, VOTE. Write letters. Vote in favor of school levies. Volunteer. Buy American. Make a difference.

It's sad as hell to think that some people won't begin to understand the impact of this until they realize that they can't buy their tighty-whities and wife beater t-shirts for $5 at K-mart anymore since the factory in Sri Lanka was washed away, or Biff and Bunny can't take their honeymoon on the tropical islands of Indonesia.

Yes, they may or may not have helped us in the past. They may or may not in the future. Please consider that most of the world doesn't live as we do. They don't have the Internet or a variety of media from which to form an informed opinion. We do. They have to go on what their Powers that Be tell them about Big Bad Ugly Americans.

Maybe it'll click for some of them that we're not everything bad that the P.T.B. in their regions may say we are. Maybe it won't. The most terrible victims of this are the kids. Some people tune out whenever people use the rallying cry "for the kids," but think -- how would you have been able to survive as a 2-year-old orphan? How would you find food? Stay away from perverts trying to sell you? Perhaps there are a lot of people over there who don't like Americans, but I can guarantee that if these kids grew up without help from the US, it wouldn't help them to form favorable, more accurate opinions of us in the future. They'd be more receptive to the imam preaching hate, or the terrorist who offers them a good sum of money to train in Al-Qaida camps.

Yes, we have problems here. They have them there. There are many, many other places in the world suffering as well. Call me naive and idealistic, but I think that perhaps people are putting away nationalities and religions and history and trying to be human beings that are doing what we can to help other human beings -- something we can desperately use in our own country as well as all over the world.

[biker]

OK IMH unedecuted opinion, they want to play this way, fine take everything and go home. WE need to stop helping the other countries and help ourselves first.

Do I feel sympathy for the 100,000 + that lost lives and the survivors who lost all their family?
Of course I do. I'm not that cold hearted, but when countries start doing this type of thing, let them rebuild themselves. We need to pull out of Afghanastan and Iraq. We are not needed there anymore either. Like I stated, let's fix America first. help our homeless. Our uneducated. then maybe help the rest of the world.

[Ysobelle]

OK IMH unedecuted opinion, they want to play this way, fine take everything and go home. WE need to stop helping the other countries and help ourselves first.



I can almost guarantee you that the guy getting rice and biscuits for his family off a Navy helicopter doesn't give a damn what his government says-- he just wants to keep his family from starving.

If we're damned if we do and damned if we don't, then we keep sending the aid that keeps people alive. I don't care what the Indonesian politicians say, I'm not about to pull our Local 9 auctions. Nor am I about to stop caring about education, human rights, and health care in my own country.

I'm a thinking, rational, compassionate adult. I don't need anyone's government to get pissy at me and tell me what to think or do. As long as it's legal for me to run a charity auction or give to the Red Cross, I will. And I think as long as there are disaster victims in genuine, dire need in Asia, our country should offer aid. It doesn't mean we won't take care of our own-- and if we're not, then we need to work on that, too, which is what some of us are trying to do.

[biker]

[
. I don't care what the Indonesian politicians say, I'm not about to pull our Local 9 auctions..

niki,
by no means am I suggesting you do that. You do what you need to do. I've been on 3 separate aid missions. I've seen those same faces, Has I was giving food out of the helo. I've been there, done that. Still doing that. I'm leaving again in 5 months. There are so many communtiy relations projects that the US military does that you all never hear about. Painting/refurbishing schools/places of worship/hospitals. Hell a lot of the seabees do that for a deployment. They'll go to a 3rd world nation, live in tents for a few months just to instal a drainage system and build a school for the locals.

[Eric McTavish]

(France is a good example; if it wasn't for us - twice - they would be speaking German). We have enough problems at home that need dealing with. Maybe we should start concentrating on them instead of the rest of the world.

Course the other side of that coin is...if the French hadn't bankrupt their country to heplp us during the War of Independance, we might sitll be part of the British Empire... howvere I do agree that America should worry about her own backyard before demanding the neighbors cut theirs!

[Ysobelle]

This is what gives me a vague kind of unease, and an understanding of why some Indonesian officials might be a little edgy about troops there-- that sort of "Oh, and while we're here..." attitude. We can't be looking at aid in terms of what it buys us on our own political agenda. If they ask for help, that's one thing, but otherwise, now's just not the time.



From http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050116%2F0620437929.htm&sc=1104&photoid=20050116PDJ111&phototerm=tsunami&maxphotos=4

Several Indonesian officials, including the vice president, have expressed unease about the large number of foreign troops, indicating their desire to see them gone by the end of March. Security appeared to be a big part of the concern. Aceh is home to separatist rebels who have been fighting the central government for years.

But on Sunday the nation's defense minister said there is no deadline for the troops to be out.

``We would like to emphasize that March 26 is not a deadline for involvement of foreign military personnel in the relief effort,'' Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono said after meeting U.S. Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz in Jakarta.

Wolfowitz, who also toured the disaster-hit Sumatran coast during his visit, has voiced pride in the American aid operation but said Washington wants to hand over relief work to Indonesia and other affected nations as soon as possible.

In the meantime, he hinted he believes improving military links would help bolster democracy in Indonesia under President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.

``We need to think about how we can strengthen this newly elected democratic government ... to help build the kind of defense institution that will ensure in the future that the Indonesian military, like our military, is a loyal function of a democratic government,'' said Wolfowitz, a former U.S. ambassador to Jakarta.

[daBaroness]

Nikki - once again you stated it very well - I agree 1,000%! We certainly can care about our global neighbors AND our fellow U.S. citizens at the same time. The United States is absolutely the most philanthropic country in the world ... let me rephrase that ... U.S. citizens are the most philanthropic people in the world. I think that's something to be proud of!

And Biker - thank you for letting us know that our military is out there doing such great things. As I said in another post - in the 21st century, as the most powerful country on Earth, our military ought to be about the work of building and assisting; about the work of protecting when needed - not about invading, occupying and forcing our form of government on countries and people of different customs and beliefs. Yes, democracy works for us - even with it's glitches. And it may work in Iraq - but we need to allow the Iraqis decide what Iraqi democracy will be - and even IF it will be. If we force our ways and will upon other countries - we'll have to stay there to ENFORCE our ways and will. If you don't believe that, perhaps remembering the "noble experiment" that was the U.S.S.R. will serve as example.

And if I remember my history correctly - the U.S. has never successfully implemented an isolationist policy. Personally, I think because of our position in the world and given the philanthropic nature of our people - isolationism isn't possible. The Internet alone precludes it - and our history makes it very unlikely.

I still think we need to separate government from people. The issues here are all about the power of politicians - not about the average citizen of the countries involved. I'm sure if you asked the 25-year-old mother of three who's in line to get her ration of rice and powered milk from the U.S. knows nothing about what her government has mandated - she's just grateful that for today she'll have food - even if she doesn't have a home, a job or much hope. And frankly - that's what her government is afraid of - that she'll be grateful to outsiders who might influence her in the future.

Finally - I wholeheartedly agree with Nikki. I believe as Americans, a majority of us do things because we simply feel they're the right things to do. We're not looking for repayment or even humble gratitude from the recipients. But then again - I know for me - doing something good and right - an unexpected kindness repays me tenfold in the wonderful feeling I get from looking and doing beyond myself. In many ways, it is an honor and a priviledge to be the giver - one might even consider it a selfish act because it can cause a unique kind of euphoria and sense of pride.

I know I am a much happier person when I don't withhold my kindness and gifts - particularly when they're unexpected. And I'm proud my sons have learned by example that stopping to help a woman with children and a flat tire on the highway get her tire changed and expecting nothing in return makes them not only good examples, but happier people as well. And I know in this universe that a kindness I do may not be repaid by the one I give to - but will be repaid by someone else - just when I need it. It's been said no man (or woman) is an island.

Try it yourself - find someone today for whom you can do a small kindness - whether it's changing a flat tire, holding the elevator door open a few seconds longer, carrying a bag of groceries for the old lady down the street or adding 20 cents from your own pocket to cover the elderly gentleman's grocery bill at the market. I'll bet you'll get more happiness and satisfaction from that measly 20 cents than from the $100 you earned at your job today.

Remember - we as individuals are not our government and as much as we'd like to believe we're a real democrary - our government is oftentimes not us! It's the same 'round the world. Just focus on the good we do for people - not their government.