Harvard president and "innate" differences.

[AllieSutherland]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01/17/harvard.president.ap/index.html

This pisses me off royally.

I would imagine that this guy is pretty well-rounded and well-educated. For something like this to come out of his mouth astounds me, especially as the leader of an institution that is highly regarded as one of the best educational institutions in the world.

To me, this is on the level of people claiming that one race is better at athletics than another, or that people from certain areas of the world are all "superbrains" and better at math, science, etc because of their ethnicity (and not accounting for societal views on education and social mores as a whole, the educational system, etc...)

As a former educator, I will say that I firmly believe that our educational system does have gender-based flaws. I do think that women are encouraged (and expected) to excel in language arts (reading, writing, speaking languages) and men are encouraged to partipciate in scientific endeavors to a greater degree than women (higher level math classes, science classes, etc). Does a female student who aspires to become a bioengineer or rocket scientist get taken as seriously as a male who aspires to the same professions? Do men who wish to become elementary educators and nurses get treated the same as their female counterparts?

My sister (a doctor) is still referred to as a "nurse" more often than she is a doctor in the hospitals she works in. And when I was a teacher (and in college for my degree), my male colleagues were not only few and far between, but were often treated as "less than masculine" -- even being accused of being "perverts" for wanting to work with young children on multiple occasions.

[Nevada]

My cousin got her master in biology and her sister in political science...I am so proud of the fields they chose and even though they knew it would be tough the stuck to their guns and are doing great.

[cyd]

I guess I shouldn't have become an engineer, hm?

I mean, I should never have had the skills to become a rocket scientist...

[Galleywench]

Amazing that so many people still feel that way. As a person in a profession that is dominated by men I can see this every day. Enrollment at the CIA (Culinary Institute of America) is significantly heavier in the testosterone area and when a woman has been a member of the culinary olympic team it makes headline news in the foodie world. It is more than ok for a woman to stay home over a hot stove but to be able to wear a toque and bring home a paycheck for doing the same thing outside of the home women often are delegated to aspire to be sous chef....and face a spun sugar cieling for the tallest white hat of the exec.

...innate my A**!!!

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

one of the best educational institutions in the world.

Actually, he was from Harvard.

<says the MIT alum> :)

[Ysobelle]

Okay, I'm not trying to be obtuse here, but what, exactly, did this guy say that's so objectionable? That there may be differences between the male and female brain? Are we not past this? Of COURSE there are differences. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, but in shape and function, yes, there are differences. Did he say women are inferior? Did he say anything women haven't been saying for ages?

I'm not saying he isn't a raging sexist, I'm just saying one pissed-off feminist walking out on him doesn't make him so.

[AllieSutherland]

I don't take any issue with the research being done on the concept of the male and female brains and chemistry being different; we all know that there have been studies that have shows some aspects between the genders to be different. These studies are still continuing today.

However, I don't think that a person's gender affects ONE'S CAPACITY to learn anything (referencing "innate differences" that were not societal in nature). Therein lies my problem with his remarks. To me (and perhaps others), it seems that he is questioning capacities and abilities, not differences in learning styles and points of view.

Yes, men and women, by and large, may or may not learn differently. Studies are still taking place on that; a definite opinion hasn't been formed. I doubt it ever will be. For Summers to say that there are "innate differences" in performance is suggesting (in this circumstance) that women lack the capacity to excel in these fields more than it being a factor of our societal and educational standards, practicies, and norms. The artcile quotes Summer as saying: " It's possible I made some reference to innate differences," he said. He said people "would prefer to believe" that the differences in performance between the sexes are due to social factors, "but these are things that need to be studied.".

There's MUCH more documented study on societal factors affecting gender performance (there's enough on it to fill two semester undergrad classes and a post-grad one, I know for certain -- I had to take them). I don't recall taking "Biochemistry of Susie Flunking Algebra." I don't recall taking "Why Johnny's Testosterone Keeps Him From Learning Literary Devices." *insert laugh*

Personally (and this is just my humble opinion), people can learn and do as much as they set their mind to do, barring limits due to learning disabilities or other factors. Even those limits can be pushed and broken. Sure, there may be factors that make learning different and/or more difficult (learning styles, experiences, teachers, environment, etc.)

For me, math and science weren't easy by far. I was a straight A student who got D's and F's in math and science. I scored 800 on the language part of the SAT, but less than half that on the math portion. It was a struggle. Do I blame it on being female? No. I blame it on being lazy and not giving it 100% effort. I think that I could have done much better had I exhausted every effort in gettng help and trying to understand it. It didn't interest me. When I was in college, I re-took many higher level math courses as electives because I had decided to become a teacher. I wanted to be able to *know* the "whys" of what I was teaching, even though they may have never reached fourth-grade ears. I felt that it was my responsibility to know these things.

When Summers gave the example of his daughter talking about a "daddy truck" and a "baby truck," I'm sure that any of you that have been around small children know that little children of either gender often associate "big and little" with "parent and child" roles That's their only concrete example of "big and little" until they develop higher cognitive and verbal skills. Hell, my nephew talks about making "daddy poops" and "baby poops." (I'm sure you ALL wanted to know that!) He sure wasn't referring to his poop as "dolls, " (Okay, cut the Mr. Hankey jokes... ;) ) nor do I think he feels maternally toward them. I find it insulting that he insinuates that womens' thoughts boil down to "maternal instinct."

For me, the following quote says it all:.

"Here was this economist lecturing pompously (to) this room full of the country's most accomplished scholars on women's issues in science and engineering, and he kept saying things we had refuted in the first half of the day," said Denton, the outgoing dean of the College of Engineering at the University of Washington.

Chauvanist asshole? Hell yeah. But it goes further. If anyone would *know* about gender differences and their causes, don't you think that these folks would know? Note that it doesn't say that "the room was full of women and minorites," but that they were "the country's most accomplished scholars on women's issues in science and engineering." I'm sure that there were many women and minorities as part of this group/audience, but, more importantly, these were supposedly some of the experts in the field; for him (an economist and university president) to "tell" them reasons behind what they've studied for years are the way they are is not only pompous, but ignorant.

He's entitled to his opinions. Everyone's got them, and we all know how the old addage about opinions goes. When he tries to pass off opinions as scientific truth, it goes beyond ignorance... it is irresponsible and malignant.

[Absinthe d'Accalia]

This definitely doesn't help, either:

Summers already faced criticism because the number of senior job offers to women has dropped each year of his three-year presidency. He has promised to work on the problem.

Makes you wonder if it the lack of women with the appropriate skills, his attitude towards females OR if they don't want to work for/with that dude. If I had to hazard a guess, it wouldn't be the first.

[Mistress Kristi]

This is why there is "take your daughter to work day" My mom is a computer programmer and I used to go to her school. My little sister used to go with my brother who is a mechanic. Now, my sister wants to be a highschool math teacher. I think it's great. I also think that the differences are social, at least in this case. my 2 cents LOL

[Leela]

This has got some attention (as you may well imagine) in the Globe. Here are a couple of Op/Ed pieces that appeared in today's paper:

http://www.boston.com/news/education/higher/articles/2005/01/19/perhaps_its_gender_block/

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/01/19/summerss_tortured_logic/

Personally, I think that at this point in time, we should be looking at these differences on a cultural level, rather than a biological one (as McNamara points out). Women still have to worry about balancing home and career at a level most men don't. Because Mom's are, for the most part, the primary caretaker. This doesn't mean they are any more capable than men to be the primary caretaker, in many cases, they are not. And there is every indication that fathers can be just as effective as women in this role. But as a society, we are still thinking of women as the "pack horse" who must carry all the responsibility, Instead of equalling the playing field and adapting to a new society where fathers get an equal amount of paternity leave to maternity leave, and women have the opportunity to go into tenured positions without their superiors second guessing their dedication and drive because they may get pregnant or already have children.

Would a single father have as much trouble getting a tenured position at a university as a single mother? The automatic answer, without anything but observation to back me up, is no.