This ought to stir things up

[daBaroness]

First - I want to acknowledge that we've traditionally stayed away from the abortion debate here on the message boards. I know I have my own personal beliefs and I respect those of others whether I agree with them or not. But I came across this story on a local TV station's Web site and it really made me think about what I'd do; what convictions I would hold if they would cause harm to my children ...

I hope you'll read this and give consideration to what you'd do - particularly those Catholics or others whose religious or personal beliefs fall more into the pro-life than pro-choice category.

I admit I'm in the pro-choice vein and when I first read this my immediate response was this woman's choice was just plain crazy. But I thought about it and tried to consider what her religious and spiritual beliefs meant to her and I began to appreciate, at least in a small way, how painful her decision must have been.

I don't want to taint your opinions - so for right now - I'll not say anything more about what I *think* my choice would be. I'd be very interested in everyone else's thoughts before I express my own. So - please read, ponder and express. Thanks!

VATICAN CITY -- The Vatican on Tuesday praised an Italian woman who died after refusing cancer treatment that would have required her to have an abortion. Rita Fedrizzi was died this week, three months after giving birth to a baby boy.

Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano compared Fedrizzi's decision to that of an Italian pediatrician Gianna Beretta Molla, who died in 1962 after refusing to end her pregnancy despite warnings that it could kill her. Beretta Molla was made a saint by John Paul II in 2003 and has become a symbol for opponents of abortion. The Roman Catholic Church considers abortion a grave sin.

Fedrizzi, 41, who refused the abortion and cancer treatment, found out she had cancer about the same time she learned she was pregnant, the Vatican paper said. "She was aware that if she gave birth she wouldn't have had any hope of surviving," the Vatican newspaper wrote. "Despite that she went through with her choice, the choice of welcoming new life even at the cost of her own death."

Besides Federico, born after six months of her pregnancy, she left two children, ages 10 and 12. "Rita's choice, which I always shared, was a choice of faith," her husband, Enrico Ferrari, told the Italian news agency ANSA. "Whenever someone recommended abortion as the only way to escape (death), she would say, `It's as if they're asking me to kill one of my other two children to save my skin.' She welcomed Federico as a gift, the husband was quoted as saying.

[Bonnie Strangeways]

While I priase her for having the courage of her convictions, and her faith...I question her choice as it affect her other two children. They now have lost thier mother. Can you honestly tell me that somewhere down inside, they don't resent the new baby, as his life took their mother's?

I'm a pagan, I hold life to be a wonderful mystery, and I hold a person's personal choice in the utmost respect. I belive in pro-choice, and am a supporter of the fight.

Keep in mind, this is a foreign country, and they have completely different mind-sets and values than we do. A damnably difficult decision was made. Tough choice.

[Drea Beth]

My first response is that I pray to God in Heaven that this is a decision I will never have to make. I have no idea what I'd do in that situation -- so much so I can't even wrap my mind around the concept.

Thanks for sharing...

[RichardMacHugely]

I've always been pro-choice myself, and if my family were in this situation we would probably have chosen differently. BUT, isn't criticizing this woman's choice antithetical to what the pro-choice movement is supposed to be about?

[Bonnie Strangeways]

I've always been pro-choice myself, and if my family were in this situation we would probably have chosen differently. BUT, isn't criticizing this woman's choice antithetical to what the pro-choice movement is supposed to be about?

oh absolutely, which is why those who have responded here already have all stated that this was a VERY tough decision, and none of us would want to have been in her shoes. My heart just breaks for those two little boys.

As stated, I fully applaud her stance, I don't have to agree with it, but the fact that it was her choice and hers alone.

[I'Cin]

My first response is that I pray to God in Heaven that this is a decision I will never have to make. I have no idea what I'd do in that situation -- so much so I can't even wrap my mind around the concept.

Thanks for sharing...

Well, I am pro-life (for one or more reasons, none of which have anything to do my religion) but I'm in agreement here - its a horrendous decision to have to make. I really can't even begin to think about it.

I'Cin

[Jessa]

I won't criticise her descision. It was hers to make.

However, were I in that situation, I would probably have acted differently. The two other children will grow up happier and healthier if they have a mother, not just memeory of one. While medical technology is getting much better at caring for premature babies, being born at only six months is still quite risky. I would have to say "not this time" for the lost pregnancy, fight for my own survival, and consider having another child once I was healthy enough for it.

[Kae]

She made the choice that followed her beliefs. I respect her greatly for that. To stand behind ones convinctions at such a great cost, is a very difficult thinga nd one many have not been able to do. I don't knwo if I wouldn't have done the same. I would have had to talk with my husband and seriously considered all implications. If I choose to become pregnant and bringa life into the world, would I have the right to end it because it woudl end mine?

Kae

[Lady Laurel]

I certainly do respect her decision it took great courage to do what she did. Although I lost my mother as a teenager and it was the most horrible thing that has happened in my life. I feel sorry for those children not having a mother to hug, touch, learn from, or that will hold them when they are sick and comfort them.

I feel for the family.

[Galleywench]

By refusing treatment was that not suicide? Isn't she going to hell anyway now? The Vatican has pretty straight forward doctrine about ending your own life...I am curious as to where in the Baltimore chatichism this falls.

[Psyche]

By refusing treatment was that not suicide? Isn't she going to hell anyway now? The Vatican has pretty straight forward doctrine about ending your own life...I am curious as to where in the Baltimore chatichism this falls.

I know someone who went through something similar and her priest was consulted numerous times. Refusing treatment was not considered suicide, as said treatment would have caused the death of another (her unborn child). The person I am referencing did survive as did her child. It was a risk, but one she was willing to make. She and her husband had been trying to have a child for many years. They felt their faith was being tested.

[Psyche]

It's as if they're asking me to kill one of my other two children to save my skin.
As a mother, I can empathize with this all too well. I felt an instant connection with both of my children after conception, and I would never have risked their lives in order to save my own. If neither of us would survive without treatment, I would have different things to consider. If the doctors had said I would likely not survive, even with having an abortion and treatments, but that we could keep me alive long enough for the child to have a chance, I would have decided against treatments and given the child a chance at life.

I think it would be one of the most difficult decisions one would have to make. It is a personal decision and thus, not one for me to judge.

[daBaroness]

Now that a few of you have expressed your thoughts, I thought I'd add my own.

I do respect that it was her choice and she based it on her religious beliefs. One thing that struck me was her comments likening the situation to having to choose to end the life of one of her already born children to save her own life. Yes, that too might be an exceptionally difficult situation - and I think were that the case I'd choose life for my child rather than myself - no question.

But that was not the case here. Without debating the highly flammable issue of when exactly a fetus is considered a life - my overriding thought is that her choice led, as was already pointed out - to leaving not just two, but three children motherless - including a newborn. My own beliefs seem to mirror and old Star Trek saying - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." In sacrificing myself for my unborn child - I would be sacrificing the two children already here, as well as their father and extended family for their unborn child as well. Another consideration is that there are no guarantees the unborn child would make it through his mother's pregnancy and be healthy if he did. As it turned out, had technology not been what it is today - a child born at six months gestation would have had a very low chance for survival. In that case - the mother would have sacrificed her life and the lives of her family and had nothing that made it worth the cost.

I just personally believe robbing a child of a parent - and particularly their mother - has far-reaching consequences on the adjustment and well-being of that child beyond what we even understand. I knew several classmates who lost their mothers at an early age - and they always seemed so wounded and lost compared to those of us with moms. I know I remember feeling so sad and sorry for them. Losing a dad - even to divorce just isn't the same as losing your mom.

I guess my values just tell me better to sacrifice just one life rather than many lives. That family is forever changed and damaged with the loss of the wife and mother. Besides the obvious pain of her death - there have got to be ramifications far into the future. One, as was previously mentioned is whether this newborn has been handed a lifetime of guilt and self-doubt knowing his mother's life was given for his. What about resentments harbored by other members of the family, even unconsciously? What about the fact that this infant doesn't have a mother when mother is most needed?

What about the other children who now face the rest of their lives without their mother? Are all the members of this extended family as firm in their convictions about abortion as she was? If they're not - what future resentments might further fracture this family and be laid at the feet of this child?

A lot of questions I would have to ask myself were I in this horrible position. I've learned never to say never but I think I would choose to sacrifice the young fetus - a child I didn't yet know about or have any guarantees with - for the living children I was already committed to.

Again, this would probably be my personal choice. I'm grateful I don't have to face that issue as I am past my child-bearing years. I would never criticize another for their own personal choices - because I am pro-choice. I'm just sad this woman had to make this choice and believe I would mostly likely make a different ones based on my own beliefs and convictions. No right or wrong here - no indictment of anyone's views - just the sadness of the situation.

thanks for your thoughtful responses, keep 'em coming

[Psyche]

I should add that I am very much Pro-Choice.

I have shared this with a few in the past, but it is one of those things I generally prefer to forget about...

During my first marriage, I was raped and despite being given the medication to prevent conception, I became pregnant. A few months prior, I had cancerous cells on my cervix removed. I had already decided not to have an abortion, as it was not the child's fault it was a product of rape. It was still MY child. (This infuriated my then husband, who wanted me to have an abortion.) After my 3 month checkup, my doctor called and made me come in. We had things to discuss. I had more cancer on my cervix, and it was worse.

I was crushed. I had already seen the heartbeat of this child. Though a product of rape, I loved that child, unconditionally. My doctor gave me some time to think about it and make my decision.

I made the decision to keep my child. Then fate stepped in. We had a house fire and I nearly died. I miscarried the baby. I had cancer treatments and the cancer vanished for a few more years.

I have no real clue why I am even posting this...

I knew that if anything did happen to me, that my children would be well taken care of. So at that point the threat was cancer. Life is so uncertain. We can be here one moment and gone the next. Car accidents (such as the one that just took a friend and left her baby daughter alive, to be raised by her father), strokes, heart attacks (such as the one that took a woman I knew, while she was giving birth to her child). Freak accidents. Live is so unpredictable. Had I chosen to abort the baby, there was no guarentee I would have lived a day longer.

Live each day as if it were your last. Be the best person you can be. Be true to your self. Do the best with the life you are given.

[Dedeley]

What a touching response. Thank you for sharing that very personal account. And your final words are so true.

I just personally believe robbing a child of a parent - and particularly their mother - has far-reaching consequences on the adjustment and well-being of that child beyond what we even understand.

I lost my mother, of natural causes, when I was 14. It most certainly had far-reaching consequences that reach out over 26 years, and into the next generation. The impact never goes away, and I don't think I, or anyone else, will ever really understand it.

Without going into religious beliefs or big explanations - I, too, think that it would be horrible to deprive two, or three, children of their mother.

[Eric McTavish]

Ok my turn...
I admit it...I’m a guy... and being such I have no right to say "boo" towards anything a woman wishes to do to her body weather she sells sex on a corner or becomes a baby machine for God... Its not my place to decide not my body.
But here’s my $0.02...
1st I respect anyone who is willing to pay the ultimate price for their beliefs.
That being said I do feel for her 3 children left without Mommy.
My problem comes from the Vatican capitalizing on the horrid choice this family had to make, they are using this tragic event (an event that cost one life and devastated the lives of that poor family) as a way of telling the world how right they are, that sickens me.

[Margaret]

Live each day as if it were your last. Be the best person you can be. Be true to your self. Do the best with the life you are given.

And that is all any of us can do. No matter what the abortion stance we take, we have to do the best with what we are given.

At least this worman and her family had time to make plans and arrangements and to say good bye and try to explain it to her other children. We can all say what we think we would do, but, I believe, this is one of thoes type of situations that you are never know how you will react until you are faced with this decision.

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

By refusing treatment was that not suicide? Isn't she going to hell anyway now? The Vatican has pretty straight forward doctrine about ending your own life...I am curious as to where in the Baltimore chatichism this falls.

I think that even the church draws a distinction between suicide and self-sacrifice in defense of others.

And as others have said, if you're pro-choice, you've got to support whatever choice she makes for herself.

Now, if the situation were slightly different, and this was a woman who wanted treatment and was being denied the treatment because it would be detrimental to her fetal tissue.... well then that would be reprehensible.

Of course, that could never happen here. It's not like we live in theocracy.

Yet.

[Artemisia]

I had already decided not to have an abortion, as it was not the child's fault it was a product of rape. It was still MY child.

First off, I'm pro-choice only because we do not have the right to impose our personal beliefs on anyone else. I do not wish these situations on my worst enemy.

Back in college, I knew of a classmate who was the product of rape. She is totally pro-life. Her explanation was, "If my mother had an abortion, I wouldn't be here.". She was studying to be a nurse at the time. I'm sure she fufilled her dreams.

Now I don't know why I'm writing this but...

I almost had an abortion with my 3rd child (domestic abuse and other items I care not to mention right now) but I didn't. My son is now 18 and already has a paid scholorship to a medical school. He wants to become a doctor.

I had an abortion with my 4th child. I was just about to leave the ex-husband and I couldn't see how I could provide enough support and love to the three that I already had without spreading myself thin. I couldn't do that to them, they deserved better.

My middle child (20) is kinda living life by the seat of his pants, but that's okay I love him dearly. My oldest (daughter, 21) is almost finished with her aero-space engineering degree. And my now 2nd husband of 14 years and I are adopting from Guatemala. I see that child having the soul of the 4th child I couldn't have.

My own experience is nothing compared to the experiences of Psyche and the original woman of this topic. I applaud and stand in awe of all women who have to make these tough decisions. Dealing with terminal disease or surviving rape alone are enough to make women saints, no matter what the outcome.

[Magdalene]

By refusing treatment was that not suicide? Isn't she going to hell anyway now? The Vatican has pretty straight forward doctrine about ending your own life...I am curious as to where in the Baltimore chatichism this falls.

I think that even the church draws a distinction between suicide and self-sacrifice in defense of others.



St. Maximilian Kolbe being a perfect example of this.