hmmmm, this was interesting....

[Bonnie Strangeways]

As prior Military myself, and being married to a Career Military Man, I hadn't given this much thought. I don't know if the numbers are completely accurate, or, as this was forwarded to me from a friend, if this is indeed Mr. Limbaugh's own words, but it *is* food for thought...

Love him or loathe him, he nailed this one right on the head..........

---begin message----------------

By Rush Limbaugh:

I think the vast differences in compensation between victims of the September 11 casualty and those who die serving our country in Uniform are profound. No one is really talking about it either, because you just don't criticize anything having to do with September 11. Well, I can't let the numbers pass by because it says something really disturbing about the
entitlement mentality of this country. If you lost a family member in the September 11 attack, you're going to get an average of $1,185,000. The range is a minimum guarantee of $250,000, all the way up to $4.7 million.


If you are a surviving family member of an American soldier killed in action, the first check you get is a $6,000 direct death benefit, half of which is taxable.

Next, you get $1,750 for burial costs. If you are the surviving spouse, you get $833 a month until you remarry. And there's a payment of $211 per month for each child under 18. When the child hits 18, those payments come to a screeching halt.

Keep in mind that some of the people who are getting an average of $1.185 million up to $4.7 million are complaining that it's not enough. Their deaths were tragic, but for most, they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. Soldiers put themselves in harms way FOR ALL OF US, and they and their families know the dangers.

We also learned over the weekend that some of the victims from the Oklahoma City bombing have started an organization asking for the same deal that the September 11 families are getting. In addition to that, some of the families of those bombed in the embassies are now asking for compensation as well.

You see where this is going, don't you? Folks, this is part and parcel of over 50 years of entitlement politics in this country. It's just really sad. Every time a pay raise comes up for the military, they usually receive next to nothing of a raise. Now the green machine is in combat in the Middle East while their families have to survive on food stamps and live in low-rent housing. Make sense?

However, our own U.S. Congress voted themselves a raise. Many of you don't know that they only have to be in Congress one time to receive a pension that is more than $15,000 per month. And most are now equal to being millionaires plus. They do not receive Social Security on retirement because they didn't have to pay into the system.

If some of the military people stay in for 20 years and get out as an E-7, they may receive a pension of $1,000 per month, and the very people who placed them in harm's way receives a pension of $15,000 per month.

I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting.

"When do we finally do something about this?"
---end message-----

[Eric McTavish]

not gonna mention the fact the most e-1 to e-5 are eleagable for food stamps and welfare in most states? or the fact that an e-3 can make over 2-3 times his military pay if he/she worked the civilain sector (at least in the avaition side of things) How abot the "combat" pay for Infantry or "Combat Arms" soldiers? Cheap way to die... or finely those of us who are on the disabled list 200$ tax free each month for a 35% disability cha-ching!

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

I hope to hell that wasn't Rush because it would kill me to have to agree with that facist.

I think it probably wasn't him though, because of this:

I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting.

since given the, say, ideological slant of our current administration, Rush would be too far up the ass of "our elected officials" to call them out blatantly like that.

[biker]

Eric,

I'm a E-6 with 3 dependents, (wife 2 kids) Wife doesn't work outside the home, I'm eligigble for WIC. never thoguht aboput food stamps though. Wil lcheck into that.

[Eric McTavish]

Eric,

I'm a E-6 with 3 dependents, (wife 2 kids) Wife doesn't work outside the home, I'm eligigble for WIC. never thoguht aboput food stamps though. Wil lcheck into that.

thats about avrage I know when I was in the 101st at least 1/2 of my company was eleagable for WIC, and FoodStamps!!! It's unbelieavable, and dont even get me started on the quality of VA Healthcare... :shock:

[Dmitri]

I hope to hell that wasn't Rush because it would kill me to have to agree with that facist.

I think it probably wasn't him though, because of this:

I would like to see our elected officials pick up a weapon and join ranks before they start cutting out benefits and lowering pay for our sons and daughters who are now fighting.

since given the, say, ideological slant of our current administration, Rush would be too far up the ass of "our elected officials" to call them out blatantly like that.

True, but he's always been a rabid Pro-Militaryman... He respects teh hell out of our fighting men and women. SO much so that I think that he WOULD say somethng like this. It isn't against the administration as much as government in general. Also Rush is a true conservative, and has always been against "big" government. This is an extension of that not an attack on the current admin...

[I'Cin]

Here's a current military pay rate chart.

http://www.dfas.mil/money/milpay/pay/paytable2005.pdf

My ex-husband is an E-9 over 20. He makes 4575.90 (base pay) + 2077 (housing allowance) + a couple of things that I'm not going to bother to list.

If he retires at 22 years he should (I think) make about $2200 a month in retirement.

Its a big drop in money.

I'Cin

[Alianne]

I agree in principal.

However, didn't most of the money the 911 families get come from either the companies for whom they worked for or from private sources? I don't remember the *government* shelling out huge $$$ to them.

I do remember that there were a lot of 'little guys', like the busboys at Windows on the World who got virtually nothing, for example.

In general, governmental benefits for any survivor, whether military or those who have paid into Social Security suck out loud. The SS death benefit is 280.00. Surviving spouse benefits drop 1$ for every 2$ the surviving spouse earns over approx 11,800 annually (this limit was established in 1964, when that was a livable wage -- today, it's below the poverty line). (What this means to me, for example, is I only get survivor's benefits from what David paid into SS 2 months out of each year). Children's benefits cut off at 18, when they used to carry over if the child was full time in college. When my children need the money the most, to help with college expenses, it's cut off completely. Nada. No health benefits, no additional anything.

The military underpays its personnel, no doubt....in that respect, I agree with the statements made.

I'm just not sure that it's *fair* to compare them to 911 survivors, since the monies didn't come from the same sources, if you see what I mean.

[Nevada]

My exstepdad served from WWII to Vietnam and his retirement amount was pitiful...its a crying shame that the those who are the first to drop down a shaft to keeps us safe then gets the shaft when they get out or their families do if the don't come back...

[Lady Laurel]

I had no idea the pay for militar was so low.
Eric, that is what my husband had to do. He left the military and used what he did in the military for a civilian company and made a great deal more money. He is a A&P mechanic working now for a major airlines.
I met him after he was discharged from the military so I had no idea it was that bad.

[Bonnie Strangeways]

However, didn't most of the money the 911 families get come from either the companies for whom they worked for or from private sources? I don't remember the *government* shelling out huge $$$ to them.


Alianne, the Us Dept of Justice set up a special fund ( http://www.usdoj.gov/final_report.pdf called "The September 11th Victim Compensation Fund" specifically for the survivors and familes of the tragedy.

What my issue with this is; Yes, it was a horrifying tragedy. I am not disputing the devestation. What I'm pissed off about is these people are receiving funding from the government for their losses, yet there are hundreds of familes out there today who've lost their loved ones in the Middle-Eastern Theater of Operations, and there is no "special Fund" to help them compensate for their loss. There are no hands holding millions of dollars for them to bury their spouses/children, no money to help them continue to raise the children left behind.

Is the servicemen's deaths less important?






Are *those* familes' losses less?

[Alianne]

However, didn't most of the money the 911 families get come from either the companies for whom they worked for or from private sources? I don't remember the *government* shelling out huge $$$ to them.


Alianne, the Us Dept of Justice set up a special fund ( http://www.usdoj.gov/final_report.pdf called "The September 11th Victim Compensation Fund" specifically for the survivors and familes of the tragedy.

What my issue with this is; Yes, it was a horrifying tragedy. I am not disputing the devestation. What I'm pissed off about is these people are receiving funding from the government for their losses, yet there are hundreds of familes out there today who've lost their loved ones in the Middle-Eastern Theater of Operations, and there is no "special Fund" to help them compensate for their loss. There are no hands holding millions of dollars for them to bury their spouses/children, no money to help them continue to raise the children left behind.

Is the servicemen's deaths less important?






Are *those* familes' losses less?

I'd forgotten about the fund, my apologies.

And certainly -- the servicemen's deaths are no less important, nor *those* families' losses less.

But I think any surviving family feels that way about themselves -- I know *I've* been, well, less than noble when I would hear some of the 911 survivors complain that the money's not enough and think 'gee, what would you have done if *your* husband had just dropped dead in front of you and your kids under 'normal' circumstances? You'd have no funds besides a crap SS death benefit and life insurance if you had it...'

[Eric McTavish]

I had no idea the pay for militar was so low.
Eric, that is what my husband had to do. He left the military and used what he did in the military for a civilian company and made a great deal more money. He is a A&P mechanic working now for a major airlines.
I met him after he was discharged from the military so I had no idea it was that bad.

Yup we had that happen in Germany a "kid" in my unit was close to the end of his 1st enlistment as an Aviation Mech…and was being asked to enlist (he was an e3 at the time) and the Civilian office of Raythaon (who worked in our hanger) offered the kid a job doing the same thing he was doing in the Army for 3 1/2 times the pay + benefits, paid vacation, relocation costs and a company apartment. Needless to say the retention officer lost that fight.

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

However, didn't most of the money the 911 families get come from either the companies for whom they worked for or from private sources? I don't remember the *government* shelling out huge $$$ to them.


Alianne, the Us Dept of Justice set up a special fund ( http://www.usdoj.gov/final_report.pdf called "The September 11th Victim Compensation Fund" specifically for the survivors and familes of the tragedy.

What my issue with this is; Yes, it was a horrifying tragedy. I am not disputing the devestation. What I'm pissed off about is these people are receiving funding from the government for their losses, yet there are hundreds of familes out there today who've lost their loved ones in the Middle-Eastern Theater of Operations, and there is no "special Fund" to help them compensate for their loss. There are no hands holding millions of dollars for them to bury their spouses/children, no money to help them continue to raise the children left behind.

Is the servicemen's deaths less important?






Are *those* familes' losses less?


Just to explain my understanding of the 9/11 fund....

The rationale behind the 9/11 fund was not (primarily anyway) to compensate families for tragic loss from a horrible event. The point was to payoff these families in exchange for them giving up the right to sue corporate entities like the airlines and the WTC owners and others that some have argued might have legal liability for the attack and damages incurred from it.

Personally, I think anyone considering suing WTC or the airlines over 9/11 is a total asshat (I mean, if you have to sue someone, sue OBL!), but given the nature of our legal system, people would be linig up at the courthouse and the airline industry and others would have losses in the billions or trillions and our economy would implode.

So the 9/11 fund was necessary in the same way that various government bailouts (airlines, S&L's, etc...) have been necessary.

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

So, to sum up... yes, military compensation is way too low, but comparing it to the 9/11 fund is comparing apples and lug wrenches.

[daBaroness]

I'm guessing the pay scale was, and is still, based on the assumption enlisted soldiers are young, single and childless. My son has nearly completed his enlistment in the Army and will make $14,321/year as a private/E1 (slightly less for boot camp). That's actually a pretty good deal for a 20-year-old with no higher education who lives on-post and has his room, board, healthcare, uniforms and other things paid for by the military. Then there are bonuses and the Montgomery GI bill for certain MOSs (generally combat) and the opportunity to take college courses fully paid for by the military while he's in the Army. If he played his cards right - he could earn his college degree during his enlistment and come out in pretty good shape. That is if he doesn't marry and continues to live on-post. That's $14,321 of disposable income every year. My job pays more than twice that - but after paying insurance, rent, groceries, utilities, transportation and other necessities, I have far less disposble income at the end of the day than he does.

But - I do realize that if he doesn't live off-post, doesn't marry and doesn't take advantage of learning a skill or college credit applicable in the civilian world - then he could indeed do far, far better by going back to school and straight into a civilian job. He realizes this, too, but whether he'll stick to it when he gets sick of taking classes or takes a shine to some girly is completely up in the air and out of my control.

What the military doesn't plan for is enlisted men and women who try to make a career out of soldiering and try to live life like civilians with house payments or rent, children, a car note, etc. Even considering being able to purchase things at the commissary at reduced prices, it still leaves families, particularly enlisted families, near the poverty level unless the spouse holds a well-paying civilian job. Unfortunately - since many young people see service in the military as a viable alternative to higher education, a way to make money for an education after military service or as a quick fix to a troubled kid or a shotgun wedding between two children - oftentimes that spouse has little or no advanced education, career training or earning ability past minimum-wage jobs - so they end up having and raising children before they're really financially able to do so and struggle to make ends meet.

In essence, though it's an archaic notion dating to days when wartime dictated the drafting of enlisted personnel (grunts) to fight and then end their army careers when the crisis ended, the military nonetheless hasn't demonstrated by their actions that they're willing to equitably compensate enlisted personnel who devote their careers to being soldiers. In fact, the way it's set up - it really discourages that. Instead, the only individuals they want as career military are officers in whom they can invest resources of training and compensation sure in the knowledge these individuals won't take that training into the civilian world until they've got 20 or 25 years of service behind them.

Military enlisted personnel are a cheap source of manpower - expendable and easily replaced by reinstituting a draft should the need arise. They've honed a cost-effective process of basic training and specialty training and many recruiters will tell potential enlistees what they want to hear about career specialties (MOSs), bonuses for combat positions and other benefits they may or may not be eligible for once they're inducted. The military expects most enlisted personnel to be 2 or 3 and out. And even NCOs who have a lot of responsibility and considerable authority don't earn what their commissioned counterparts do. Personally, I can't figure how a drill instructor could have a regular life when they have to spend nine weeks at a time with recruits in boot camp. Yet a lot of NCOs make the military their career.

But who among us can truly say we're paid fairly for the work we do and the skills we bring to the table? And there's no comparison when looking at the salaries and bonuses executives and others make compared to those doing the actual work and supporting them. Even stay-at-home parents can never be fully compensated in a financial way for everything their job encompases and all the skills they must have and hone.

And look at teachers, daycare providers, cops, secretaries, etc., who slave away in thankless, mediocre-paying jobs even with higher education and gobs of experience. There is no real paridy - no justice in how we are compensated for our work. What makes a professional athlete so much more valuable than someone who spends 40 years teaching kindergarten? Why does athletic ability carry so much weight with us when truly meaningful jobs that contribute to the overall betterment of the world are paid pauper's wages and dismissed as do-gooders whose compensation of good feelings outweighs being able to cover their own expenses.

I agree with Rush on this one (gak - did hell freeze over again?). Of course I'm still incredulous over coverage of the obscenely costly Trump wedding while good, decent men and women are fighting and dying and their families are having to collect food stamps so they can eat while the family breadwinner is away. Or when countless thousands of people lost their lives in mere seconds because of a cruel act of nature. Yes, it's Donald's $7 million that paid for the gold leaf decor and bathroom fixtures in his $37 million wedding ballroom - but did he really earn it in the way most of us earn our living - through hard work, dedication, blood, sweat and tears? The whole scenario just sickens me.

[Caitriona]

DB- Thank you once again for being so well spoken.

My Step-son is in the AF. He keeps testing and raising himslf to the next pay level. The last time I knew he was making about $1500/month. This is all disposable for him. Since he has no bills outside of his cable and cell phone.

Yes, I know families that are barely making ends meet, they live off base, the wife doesn't work, and they have no money. What I don't understand is if there is married housing on base, why they aren't living there? I know the Day care at Mike's base is free, so why doesn't the wife go to work, even if it's just at the BX or Shopette? Any additional income would be just that or better yet, use the day care and go to school. If finances are that tight, then they should qualify for financial aid, get a degree and get a better job.

I understand the pay is too low. What I would like to see more of is better combat pay. I feel bad for the Reservists that are called in from their Civilian jobs and the money they lose. These are people who were living on a civilian paycheck and not the low pay from the military. Their bills reflect such. These are the people I'm concerned with.

The enlisted knew what they were getting into when they enlisted. No one held a gun to their head and made them sign the paperwork. They knew what the pay would be, and that they could be sent into a combat zone/war if it occured. They could have chosen a different path. They and their families knew that this action could lead to death. Would I be happy if Mike was sent to Iraq and killed? No, I would be very upset. But he, as an adult, knew what he was getting himself into, and there is no one else that can be held accountable for his actions, but himself.

Does there need to be some type of Military pay reform? Yes. Better death benefits? Absolutely. But what about everyone else too??? I don't even want to get started on Social Security reform or even just plain old social reform...

[Eric McTavish]

Ok ex-military here to answer your questions

My Step-son is in the AF. He keeps testing and raising himslf to the next pay level. The last time I knew he was making about $1500/month. This is all disposable for him. Since he has no bills outside of his cable and cell phone.
Thell him to keep up the good work!!!

Yes, I know families that are barely making ends meet, they live off base, the wife doesn't work, and they have no money. What I don't understand is if there is married housing on base, why they aren't living there?
Most military bases have at least a 2 year waiting list to get into ho-post houseing, now you do get money to rent off-post housing but mor often than not it dosent cover all the rent cost then you have all your ulitiliy bills (something you dont have with on-post housing)

I know the Day care at Mike's base is free, so why doesn't the wife go to work, even if it's just at the BX or Shopette? Any additional income would be just that or better yet, use the day care and go to school. If finances are that tight, then they should qualify for financial aid, get a degree and get a better job.
Often the on-post daycare also have waiting lists (I've seen one post with a 3 year wait) no day care not work for momma, often the jobe on-post are all taken by retirees who have exited service in the area and want a ncie soft job near home... the likelyhood of finding an on-post job are around 100 to 1, almost all lower ranking familes DO qulify for food stamps, WIC, etc... schooling however is another proble...how can you go to school when you SO might at any time be deployed and you have to be hope to care for the kiddys?

I understand the pay is too low. What I would like to see more of is better combat pay. I feel bad for the Reservists that are called in from their Civilian jobs and the money they lose. These are people who were living on a civilian paycheck and not the low pay from the military. Their bills reflect such. These are the people I'm concerned with.
there are services that will "freeze" the intrest rates and lower them for reservists who are activated... My co-worker's hubby was activated and her house payment is now 1/2 what it was before he was called up.

The enlisted knew what they were getting into when they enlisted. No one held a gun to their head and made them sign the paperwork. They knew what the pay would be, and that they could be sent into a combat zone/war if it occured. They could have chosen a different path. They and their families knew that this action could lead to death. Would I be happy if Mike was sent to Iraq and killed? No, I would be very upset. But he, as an adult, knew what he was getting himself into, and there is no one else that can be held accountable for his actions, but himself.
Yes but shouldnt the people who are willing to put their very lives on the line for us be, at the very least, paied a decent salery???

[Bonnie Strangeways]

Wow, some great opinions coming out of this thread, I like it!

DB, you would be amazed at the larger percentages of enlistees are now Married with 1-3 children. That's an E-1, E-2 attempting to support up to 4 mouths on his pay. This is a growing concern. Yes, it used to be the old military adage "We didn't issue you a wife in that sea-bag". Unfortunately, in this time of "Family Values", the military cannot use this theory in practice. With today's job market issues, more and more young men and women sign up simply because it's a guarenteed paycheck, in a time when job down-sizing and uncertain economy makes the Private Sector unreliable at best.

The Military is also a route for folks who can't necessarily afford to go to college on their own, to educate themselves. The GI Bill, and the continuing education programs that the military offers are a golden oppertunity for those who can take advantage of them. In today's job market, it's becoming the standard that if you do not have even an Associate's you are unlikely to even get your foot in the door.

Caitriona, you also raised a very valid question, why doesn't the wife work? Well, along with the points that Eric raised regarding the daycare situation, and housing waiting-lists, there's also the added complication of dealing with Duty Rosters and Deployment Schedules.

Speaking from personal experience, attempting to balance a career on the military's time schedule is challanging, to say the least. My Husband has duty (one 24 hour watch shift) every 8 days. It doesn't matter whether I have to work late that night, or be out of town for my job, he cannot just say, "oh I can't be here tonight, I have to be home with the kids." Now, if you are not enrolled in Base Daycare (here it's a minimum of 16 month wait) you have to find a daycare out there that will take kids overnight. Then you have to pay them for that, and I'll tell you, I have a coronary every time I write the check! This is just for one night, the situation becomes every more complicated when they up and leave for 2-8 months. I'm not saying that thing's like this don't have in the Civilian Sector, I know they do, but it's a larger concern with the military, as it's a guarenteed event that occurs frequently.

Yes, a simple solution would be for the lady to get a job. However, the caveat of that is, now they must pay for daycare, as Mom isn't home to be with the kids. I know that I pay over $500.00 a month in Daycare. For some folks, that's their entire 2 week paycheck.

I honestly don't see a simple resolution to the issue, but it's becoming that it's not just the military affected. It's nation-wide, and I just hope that we can figure out how to help.

Please keep the thoughts coming though, very important points have already been raised, and I'm finding the conversation fascinating.

[Alianne]

I appreciate the points being made, but I do have a few questions in regards to two of them:

Personnel who are using the military in part to help fund their future college education via the GI Bill -- okay, this is a good thing....but most students I know in college *aren't* getting married and having children until after they get done. Yet, it seems like a lot of young men and women in the military, who haven't even gotten to the point where they're starting college, let alone getting a degree, are getting married and having kids. Where is the logic in this? They know what they're making and they know it will be some time before they have a degree (or at least, a private sector job that will hopefully pay more than military pay)....so they're making choices that have negative consequences for themselves and their families. Yes, some students who Are In Looooove do marry while still in college, but then they also have consequences -- so, where are the differences?

Day care. Women who work in the private sector also pay through the nose for day care with *no hope* of even getting on a wait list for free daycare, ever.

Maybe one of the answers is simply this: if you can't afford to have kids, whether you're military or in the private sector, then delay parenting when possible....or at the very least, know when to stop. I mean, we knew how many children we felt we could afford and didn't have more than that. Even then, when times got tough (and believe me, they did), we did what we had to do to get by. Even if it meant having to pay half my paycheck for day care, at least there was the other half that went towards expenses, which was better than not having that half at all. And David was in law enforcement, which often meant mandatory overtime when they got short-staffed (and he already worked 3-11, so he often worked on the overnight, getting home as I was getting ready to leave...and he couldn't just go to sleep, as for a number of those years, there was a pre-school aged child who couldn't be left alone).

I'm not trying to trash anyone here, really I'm not. And I have the utmost respect for military personnel.....but these issues certainly aren't unique to the military.

[saphoenixsilver]

I for one am all for the fighting men and women getting a better pay rate, death benifit,etc. I have so much respect for all of the men and women who serve in the military, much of which is because my family has been heavily involved in the military, and the fact that my ex was a soldier. As for college age students waiting to marry, not all of them do. In fact, a majority of the solitaires, and wedding sets I have shown at work, and sold are to either young military men, or to college age men, many of whom are in school. Day care unfortunatly is an issue for all, I personally believe that a lot of the reason for this is the fact that unfortunatly the age that women want to have children at has dropped. I believe that this is in part a lack of education on the subject in many cases. A lot of girls just want to get married and have a baby. I myself at only age 22 almost fell into that. I have not finished school as of yet, and although I do have extensive training in computers have no certificates to prove it. If I had married my ex-boyfriend when we were talking about it ( I was 19-20 at the time) and started a family we would not have been able to afford it. My mother made sure that I realized that at a young age, not that I always listened. I personnally believe that we need to have more education about what exactly marriage and a family can entail finacially for everyone including military perssonell.
I believe that a lot of the difference between military personnell who marries and begins a family, and a college student who does the same is the fact that a member of the military who has a family has a higher risk of being killed in the line of duty then the normal civillian. This in turn means that a family is left without a father or husband. They also do not always have as much time with their family as a civillian due to the risk of deployment. Yes these people knew the risk when they signed up, but that doesn't mean that they don't still have the same right to be happy and have a family if they so wish, as all of us who are not in the military.
Of course, I'm of the opinion that firefighters and Police officers should also recieve a decent wage and death benifit as well (My county needs improvement on this). All of these people are risking their lives for us and deserve some decent recognicion. This may not completely find the true spirit of this thread, but it is my 2 cents on this. I'll get off my soapbox now.
:rant:

[Eric McTavish]

Alianne yopu have a point one of the sore spots TinkerWench and I had while I was in was seeing E1 and 2's having 2-4 kids with, explainign why not the Military is paying for them (delivery, medical, etc...) very shortsighted in my opinion TinkerWench and I had enought trouble keeping just the 2 of us afloat with my early pay we couldnt even imagine adding a munchkin to the list...

Needless to say there needs to be reform in the pay-scale for the military along with personal responsibility in how that money is spent within the family.

[MisRed]

Lets start this off by saying I'm not /in/ the military, but I am a proud Air Force Brat/ Rat Brat. I am the result of Free housing, reduced grocery costs, reduced clothing costs and free daycare. My mother was a stay at home Mom, until I was 7 and she went back to school.

I think Eric's statement is right on the money.

Needless to say there needs to be reform in the pay-scale for the military along with personal responsibility in how that money is spent within the family.

My father and my grandfather before him, always said that budgeting, signing up for benifits, checking in for housing etc should have been taught in Basic. Luckily they had good mentors that taught them how to utilize the system.

I agree that those who defend this country need to be paid more, and those that have defended it with their blood deserve /more/ and better support. But I also think that teachers should be paid more to, so my viewpoint might be skewed :D