The Natalie Halloway case

[AshleyTheWench]

I didnt see a thread on this...soooo...I thought I'd start one. While I am very said that this has happened, does anybody but me find it horrifying that if Natalie's friends saw her leaving the bar with strange men that they had never met, that they didnt stop her? My friends would be pulling me back so fast my head would spin, and likewise if it were my friend leaving with some stranger.

And now its been over seven weeks, and her more then likely dead body is laying somewhere on Aruba or in the ocean because her friends didnt stop her and she foolishly went off with strange men she never met. So my question is, what are your thoughts on this case

[Nevada]

My friends would have jerked me back so fast I would have had whiplash...of course I had common sense enough then and now not to do something that stupid

[Eric McTavish]

her friends were WRONG to let her go period...
as of now there are prob. 2 options...
she dead or she's hit the white slave trade...either way I doubt she'll ever be found. :(

[Dmitri]

her friends were WRONG to let her go period...
as of now there are prob. 2 options...
she dead or she's hit the white slave trade...either way I doubt she'll ever be found. :(

as long as you keep the root cellar locked dude you'll be fine... trust me...

[LadyRadar]

My mother is terrified to let me go anywhere that isn't instate because of this. She freaks out. But it's okay. I understand where she's coming from...

If I was ever at a bar with my friends and I started talking to strange guys they'd hit me upside my head and pull me out of that bar. But my friends have a syster--one of us is ALWAYS sober and never leaves another friend alone.

Maybe if Natalee had had friends like mine, she wouldn't have disappeared...

And I agree. Unfortunately, she's probably not alive.

[Lady Laurel]

That was one off my first questions. Why did her friends let her go with these guys? They are probably asking themselves the same thing. Thats why when I went out in a group at least one off us stayed sober to drive and watch over everyone else. It seemed to work really well for us.

What I find interesting is this week they pumped the reward up to 1 million. Supposively there has been sightings off her in different countries. I just keep hoping she will just suddenly turn up okay, but I doubt it.

[Mairi the Herbwench]

On the drive in the radio news said they would be draining a pond and didn't want the parents there - this was the last place she was seen.

What was the school thinking - let alone her froends - I heard the student/chaperone ratio was almost non-existant, too.

And again - she's a young, attractive white woman who disappeared. What about all the women and men of color who have disappeared and media doesn't give a rats ass? Why do we never hear about those on national news? Just a pet peeve of mine...

[LadyRadar]

Mairi I do agree with you there. Damned double standard of our country that the only people who matter are the young white people. You hear more about those disappearances than you do about the rest of them. The ONLY exception I saw was that Baylor student who was a basketball player a couple years ago and his friend killed him. Stupid people

[RichardMacHugely]

While I grieve for the parents, I fail to understand how this essentially run-of-the-mill missing person case is a national story. It seems like the public's attention migrates from one lurid and voyeuristic case to another these days, from Chandra Levy to Lacey Peterson to this. I'm sure dozens of other young girls have gone missing in the last two months. Why does this story get so much attention?

[MisRed]

Why does this story get so much attention?

Actually, there's a book about tornado's, of all things, that discusses the attraction posed by catastrophy. The Author (the book is Big WeatherBTW) talks about how people are attracted to horrible things, because of our inate desire to experience the aftermath, without experiencing the actual event. He calls it "Catastrophilia".

It got news because it's every parents worst nightmare. Your child disappearing, hours before she was due home. No leads, no "official suspects", and parents who are willing to and have enough connection to get American Authorities involved.

And 2.5 million people watch the teary news conferences, the teary interviews on Larry King, Good Morning America, CNN and think "Wow, how awful." And Advertizers hope that they stay tuned enough to hear about Zoloft and the new "male enhancement".

Okay, I'll get off the :rant: now.

Anyone else?

[Magdalene]

On the drive in the radio news said they would be draining a pond and didn't want the parents there - this was the last place she was seen.

What was the school thinking - let alone her froends - I heard the student/chaperone ratio was almost non-existant, too.

And again - she's a young, attractive white woman who disappeared. What about all the women and men of color who have disappeared and media doesn't give a rats ass? Why do we never hear about those on national news? Just a pet peeve of mine...

This got discussed on another message board I'm on, and what we figure is this...

Most men and women of color live in lower-class places...crime-ridden...etc. Their families are more likely to be 'broken', or the mother will have several different children by several different men, and not know who all the fathers were, abuse and neglect are likely more rampant, etc etc etc.

In other words...there's the underlying attitude "Something bad was going to happen to them sooner or later." Nobody's surprised when they turn up missing/dead.

I read about these disappearances every so often....the white girls are spoken of, usually with "She wouldn't do something like this." (Translation-"She wouldn't disappear on her own without telling us, so something is wrong.")

Minorities...sadly, I've read quotes of, "Well, we didn't notice she/he comes and goes as they please..." So nobody cared enough to keep track, and notice they were gone.

Not saying it's right....that just seems to be the attitude that most people have.

[Cyranno DeBoberac]

On the drive in the radio news said they would be draining a pond and didn't want the parents there - this was the last place she was seen.

What was the school thinking - let alone her froends - I heard the student/chaperone ratio was almost non-existant, too.

And again - she's a young, attractive white woman who disappeared. What about all the women and men of color who have disappeared and media doesn't give a rats ass? Why do we never hear about those on national news? Just a pet peeve of mine...

This got discussed on another message board I'm on, and what we figure is this...

Most men and women of color live in lower-class places...crime-ridden...etc. Their families are more likely to be 'broken', or the mother will have several different children by several different men, and not know who all the fathers were, abuse and neglect are likely more rampant, etc etc etc.

In other words...there's the underlying attitude "Something bad was going to happen to them sooner or later." Nobody's surprised when they turn up missing/dead.

I read about these disappearances every so often....the white girls are spoken of, usually with "She wouldn't do something like this." (Translation-"She wouldn't disappear on her own without telling us, so something is wrong.")

Minorities...sadly, I've read quotes of, "Well, we didn't notice she/he comes and goes as they please..." So nobody cared enough to keep track, and notice they were gone.

Not saying it's right....that just seems to be the attitude that most people have.
Or to put it in industry cliché terms... "Dog Bites Man" isn't a front page story, "Man Bites Dog" is.

[AshleyTheWench]

The school should be ashamed of themselves, taking the students to another country where drinking is legal at 18 for a graduation party, and the parents who let their kids go are even stupider, I mean HELLOOOO does anybody have a functioning brain.

However, we can hope that this will turn up like the Eilzabeth Smart case and Natalie will turn up alive. If she is alive, hopefully she wont be stupid enough to ever wander alone with somebody again

[Ferret]

I think this got so much attention in part because it happened in what is supposed to be a beautiful worry-free place. If it happened in New York City or LA, then there wouldnt be so much shock and surprise.

Another reason is that she is your typical "all-american" girl. blonde, perky, anyone else see the cheerleading footage?. You wanna bet if it was a goth chick or someone who was the slightest bit "odd" there wouldnt be so much coverage?

As far as her friends go, I am sure noone wanted to be the spoilsport of tellin her not to go... if any of them were sober enough to think of it. I am sure they are kicking themselves now, and they certainly werent very good friends.

New graduates who are inclined to drink are going to regardless of where they are. I thought I read somewhere that it was not a school sponsored trip so much as a bunch of people who thought it was a good idea for the kids to go somewhere together. I find it amazing how society blames everything on schools and the like instead of the parents and the kids themselves...

[daBaroness]

We actually discussed this in an earlier We've Got Issues thread. Honestly? I wouldn't expect her 18-year-old peers to be her keeper, but I do question the overall logic of a group of over 120 kids visiting a foreign country with only seven adult chaperones. Yeah, yeah, if they're 18, they're legally adults. Horsehockey! When I was in high school, classes took senior trips to faraway exotic places when they were 18, but it was before the law said 18 was an adult and there were a LOT more adult chaperones and very specific rules of conduct, curfews and the use of the buddy system - in short, accountability. Just changing the law doesn't change the maturity level or the ability to employ experience and logic to the decision-making of an 18-year-old. Scientific medical studies have proven that the human brain isn't fully developed - especially it's reasoning abilities - until we're in our mid-20s.

Yes, I agree there was a (stupid) assumption made that because Aruba is supposed to be a peaceful, utopic island paradise, an attractive, and naive 18-year-old would be safe in any situation. Natalie herself carries a huge amount of the responsibility for her own tragic end, but so do her parents for allowing her to go on the trip, so does the school for not providing adequate supervision of inexperienced, naive youth or setting and enforcing a strict code of behavior to which the teens would be held accountable for their own safety and security.

For one thing, although it's legal for 18-year-olds to consume alcohol in Aruba, as the parent of a 20-year-old, I find it incredibly irresponsible to have allowed these teens to patronize bars and clubs and consume alcohol. Most of them probably don't have much experience consuming alcohol in quantity and knowing how impaired their judgement and inhibitions can become and how vulnerable they make themselves. Maybe Natalie's friends knew she was hooking up with these guys, but my guess is if they did, they told her not to - that's why she returned to the hotel with them and then left the hotel without them. It was a stupid, stupid thing to do, particularly if she ignored her friends' advice.

But that's what 18-year-olds do - they make stupid choices. Usually they don't have such dire and heartrending consequences - but they also don't usually involve being in a foreign country, consuming alcohol and cavorting at bars with no supervision and disappearing with strangers also foreign - and ditching your friends and sneaking out without telling anyone. I couldn't and wouldn't assume that Natalie had anything but a history of model behavior, but her behavior on this trip frankly would indicate to me she's engaged in some risky and ill-advised behavior in the past without the high-stakes consequences - or the knowledge of her parents.

I do feel for her parents - I can't begin to imagine the horror and the pain of losing a child, muchless in this manner. I can't help thinking that part of the pain her parents are feeling is due to guilt - guilt over allowing her to go; guilt over maybe not knowing their daughter as well as they thought they did; guilt over not instructing her more in the dangers that might exist in a foreign country ... I know I would be feeling overwhelming guilt were I in that situation.

I do believe, however, her parents are not alone in their own naivete. I know when I was in high school my French teacher took a group of students to France and Spain for two weeks. Prior to the trip, he was insistent that he, parents and students meet on a number of occasions to discuss contingency plans should the kids find themselves in compromising situations. One thing I specifically remember was that he insisted the girls NEVER be alone and if possible, that the boys in the group be extra responsible in looking out for the girls. He was especially adament that the blonde girls take special care not to be alone when they were in Spain, as blondes were especially susceptible to being approached by men and put into dangerous situations. Considering two of the young men suspected of being involved in Natalie's disappearance were from countries where blondes were considered trophies, it might have been good advice for Natalie as well.

What saddens me most in this situation is that once again I see young American women sacrificing their safety and very lives just for the attention of males. I see it all the time at faire, I see it in the friends of my sons and the daughters of friends. It's not just what we used to call being "boy crazy" - it's the complete willingness, indeed the insatiable drive to sacrifice everything and anything to have the attention of a male - from bodies, money, freedom, dignity - whatever a boy asks, too many girls readily give at too young an age to understand the devastating effects to their self respect, their souls and their futures.

From all accounts, Natalie was talented, intelligent, personable and had a bright future ahead of her ... why then did she risk it all just to party with three male strangers who weren't even worth a second look?

[AshleyTheWench]

wow baroness, you have said everything I've honestly been thinking. however, I do so hopet his has a happy ending. Like the Elizabeth Smart case, for all weknow she was forced to marry some freak and is chained in his basement or something =( however its not something I am holding my breath for, but hopefully it teaches girls and boys not to wander off on their own with strangers

[Alianore DeClare]

I've done ALOT of stupid things in my life, and I consider myself VERY lucky that something similar never happened to me with regard to strangers.
My risk-taking behaviour was a result of childhhood abuse, and I smartened up after a LONG time, but there were a few times when I felt really lucky to get home alive.
Errors in judgement happen, we are human, and we don't always think right. Even as adults, we can sometimes find ourselves in uncomfortable situations. Make it kids, excitement at being graduates, alcohol, no supervison, and an island where you can "misbehave all you want because you'll never see these people again" attitude, and you're asking for trouble. BAD combination, but I've seen it a million times - yeah, even at Faire. Sometimes the younger wenches really WORRY me.
I agree with Da Baroness - what WERE those parents THINKING? Sending that many kids off with virtually NO chaperones - who were probably too busy enjoying themselves to watch over the kids properly, anyway. I know from travelling with just my own THREE, that it is very difficult to watch even that number at all times.

Kids will be kids, and if given enough rope, will stretch it to the breaking point. I have travelled all over the world, sometimes alone, sometimes with friends, often just me and my kids. I watch them like a hawk. Kids AND Friends. Always have. Always will. Always let them know that no matter WHAT the situation, they could call me, and I would come get them - with a posse, if need be, and no questions asked. Luckily, I've never had to go the posse route, but I HAVE been called once or twice in the middle of the night to do rides home, which I do without comment or attitude, grateful that they called rather than taking a chance.

It really is a shame that the mother of that poor girl had to go home with nothing but her luggage. But I have thought from the beginning that any land search would be useless. It's an ISLAND, and there are boats EVERYWHERE. She's been dumped a couple miles out, and will never be found. That's the sad reality there.

[AshleyTheWench]

The mom went home? I assumed she was still in Aruba, she was last week. But yes, the said truth is like people who die out in the desert, she like them, will most likely never, be found.

[Alianne]

The mom went home? I assumed she was still in Aruba, she was last week. But yes, the said truth is like people who die out in the desert, she like them, will most likely never, be found.

Her mom's been going back and forth between their home and Aruba.

[KissMeKate]

... taking the students to another country where drinking is legal at 18 for a graduation party, and the parents who let their kids go are even stupider, I mean HELLOOOO does anybody have a functioning brain.

Nope, no one in that group had a functioning brain. Look at the big spring break towns in the south. No one there has a functioning brain. The only thought seems to be "Party til you puke and fall down". When I was in college, I was in one of two groups that went to Florida for Spring Break. About 20 of us were dropped off in a sleepy little town (with 2 of our professors) and we spent the week on a biological research island - relaxing and doing a little work as well (yes, I'm a geek, but it was worth it!). The rest went on to Daytona. When we picked them up at the end of the week, I was just amazed that any of them still had some brain cells, let alone their belongings, and that everyone in the group showed up to go back to school.

It doesn't always have to be alcohol related either. One of my friends was nearly kidnapped from a huge Halloween Party at Pearl Street Mall in Boulder when we were in high school. Luckily, we noticed the two guys that were following us, and we were all able to get to a safer location.

You have to have very good and trustworthy friends to watch out for each other. Not everyone learns that lesson before something bad happens.

[Lady Laurel]

I was never allowed to go on spring break trips even the year after I graduated. My mother knew what went on and said as goofy as we were something bad would happen. She was probably right. When you are young you think nothing bad will happen to you. ( like it will never happen to me.) I do agree that there was no where near enough chaperones for those kids.