Interesting NYT op-ed.

[Holly]

I think that the ideals espoused by feminism is a great idea. I would also agree that even if we aren't a feminist organization, being explictly put in our motto etc, it is strongly implied in our actions, humor, topics of interest etc. I thought that the artilce was interesting because it did touch on the fact that feminism has become a concept that society partially shunns. I wondered why is that, I had my own opinions, but I wanted to hear what you all felt.

I agree with DaB that often women are our own worst enimies. I am not sure if it is a social aspect of women, or a genetic one that predisposes us to make those choices. Sometimes I think that feminstic women who are polarizing act the way that they do not because they are women, but because they define themselves as 'not accepting a prescribed role'. Those choices have little to do with gender.

Either way the societal construct of feminism needs to be re-evaluated, and being a assertive-women's group, we have a stake in that re-definition and how society percieves and operates within that construct.

bah! I can't find the spell check on this version, please excuse the typos. I can NOT spell anything.

[Phoenix McHeit]

Originally Posted by daBaroness

Sadly - when one of us undertakes something and gives up - we're all judged by that one woman's experience. It wouldn't happen with men.

I have the quote on my profile page - it says "Because I am a woman, I must make unusual efforts to succeed. If I fail, no one will say 'She doesn't have what it takes.' , they will say 'Women don't have what it takes.' " - Clara Boothe Luce

[Gemdrite]

Originally Posted by Phoenix McHeit

I have the quote on my profile page - it says "Because I am a woman, I must make unusual efforts to succeed. If I fail, no one will say 'She doesn't have what it takes.' , they will say 'Women don't have what it takes.' " - Clara Boothe Luce

That's a really good quote. I may have to steal that and put it on my Facebook page as well.

[shyanwench]

daBaroness...most respectfully to ya lady... You need to send your post to every woman's magazine for publication! Huzzah!

[daBaroness]

Originally Posted by Phoenix McHeit

I have the quote on my profile page - it says "Because I am a woman, I must make unusual efforts to succeed. If I fail, no one will say 'She doesn't have what it takes.' , they will say 'Women don't have what it takes.' " - Clara Boothe Luce

It's so true.

I'm in a funky mood tonight - algebra is giving me fits and bad flashbacks to 1972. One of my high school friends who is on FB posted this today and I just howled.

Woman's Rule of Thumb: If it has tires or testicles, you're going to have trouble with it. ~Author Unknown

[Vixynne Rose]

Weighing in...*waves with a fistful of Halloween MnM's*

I grew up in the 70's. I watched my mom go from being a full-time housewife (which she was pretty darn good at) to getting her own paycheck. She had no college education and her options for employment were rather limited by that; but she worked doggedly to raise my family's standard of living...sometimes at two simultaneous "nametag-and-a-hairnet" jobs for minimum wage.

At no point did my father ever step up his game and do more than he was accustomed to (i.e. light yard work, basic mechanical/plumbing when needed--which translates loosely to "changing lightbulbs and plunging toilets"--and the occasional "listen to your mother" by way of parenting skills). Mom still cooked, cleaned, shopped, fluffed and folded, weeded the flowerbeds, painted the house, and played "bad cop" when disciplining three daughters.

At no point did my father ever stop making snarky "women's Lib" commentary while belching, scratching and beer-guzzling in front of the television, barely lifting his feet out of the way of her canister vacuum. Dad put the "oink" in the phrase "male chauvinist pig".

This woman, who adopted me during her first hellish marriage, and had to give BACK an adopted son because her first husband bolted on her before the paperwork was final--this woman who regularly worked like a farmhorse from bedraggled sunup to exhausted nightfall for her entire adult life--taught me lessons I'll carry with me the rest of my days. Those lessons weren't about feminism. They weren't even about humanism, or any other 'ism you might happen to have laying around.

They were about fairness.

They were about what a partnership--a friendship, a marriage, a committed relationship, whatever--is supposed to be. (Okay, that one was taught by negative example, but it was still powerful.)

They were about being a decent, caring, contributing member of society, whether you pull a six-figure paycheck or raise six kids.

She stayed for almost 30 years, until he turned a mental and emotional corner and became violently bipolar. (She stayed for all the reasons DaB mentioned, never realizing that what she was gaining by staying was in NO WAY a fair trade for her dignity and self-worth.) She was in her 50's, it was crisis time, and it could have crushed her. That's when her true mettle showed. She divorced him, sold the money pit that was our childhood home, and launched her independent, self-created future; for the first time in her life.

A feminist might find my mother's early adulthood disappointing and crow about her later achievements. But see, my mom was no less amazing when she was ironing my dad's work shirts than she was when she bought a second apartment to become a landlady after her divorce.

A woman who can swim upstream and make ANY sort of progress in today's world, no matter what her personal choices are for career/family/self-fulfillment; THAT is the definition of astounding. I could go further and say anyone, male or female, who lives a life of significance to another human being--is amazing.

We aren't on the planet for long. It really does seem like so much "sound and fury, signifying nothing" to holler about whether it's more valid to stay home and raise children or be a corporate drone. It's time to stop pointing fingers and judging those who choose differently than we would. (Yes, I'm talking to you, feminazis...actually, to extremists on both ends of the spectrum.) Time to step up, accept that we all have strengths, apply those talents and get the #$*!ng work done, isn't it?

My vote (since I'm a mom and a teacher) is that we need more stay-at-home parents of both genders...so many of our children lack guidance at the most basic levels; so many have no empathy, not enough conscience, nothing but a sense of "I'm entitled to __________, so fork it over and be quick about it."

Meh, I know I'm rambling. And yes, we have come a very long way from the days of "female hysteria" and the idea that any man married to a working woman must be a failure as a male...but we also live in a world where girls still have their clitorises excised so that they won't feel sexual pleasure. Where women who aren't behind walls must be veiled so that their inherent ability to corrupt men's souls won't be flaunted.

Progress is good. But every moment we waste in judgement is a moment lost for bringing the ethical-treatment scales into balance for everyone.

(Yes, Dad. That's your "pinko-commie-daughter" talking. What can I say--my mother taught me well.)

[Phoenix McHeit]

Vix...

I don't think I've ever loved you more than at this moment.

(And that's sayin' sumpin' !!! )